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#3035931 - 11/16/12 07:56 AM good bye Twinkie. thanks unions
Crappie Luck Moderator
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http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intellige...latestheadlines
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#3035980 - 11/16/12 08:24 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
Vermin93
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One third of the company (about 6000 people) are (were) union. So these mindless union drones just cost the other two thirds of the company (about 12000 people) their jobs. Hopefully more of the economically ignorant Obama voters will wake up and realize that these unions and the Democrat politicians they support are killing America's economy.

I have no sympathy for the union members who lost their jobs. None whatsoever. They can go get their unemployment checks and food stamps from Obama. I feel terrible for the thousands of non-union workers who were casualties of this union suicide mission.
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#3036012 - 11/16/12 08:36 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Vermin93]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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One union guy said he was better off on unemployment. They do not care
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#3036017 - 11/16/12 08:38 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
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FORWARD.....

the NEW HOPE & CHANGE!!
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#3036142 - 11/16/12 09:36 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Grizzly Johnson]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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They don't nothing but gone down hill since they changed "Ding Dongs" to "King Dons" because it was offensive.
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#3036150 - 11/16/12 09:42 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
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They were better before when they were in the foil wrapper instead of the new little plastic bag.
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#3036151 - 11/16/12 09:42 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
BMan
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The only silver lining in this whole thing is that the Teamsters are suffering also due to their union brethren.

Let them see how they enjoy being screwed over by the unions. ;\)
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#3036162 - 11/16/12 09:49 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BMan]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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I see a newly restructured Hostess company opening factories and job opportunities in a right to work state in the very near future
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#3036400 - 11/16/12 12:36 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BMan]
Still-n-Quiet
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 Originally Posted By: BMan
The only silver lining in this whole thing is that the Teamsters are suffering also due to their union brethren.

Let them see how they enjoy being screwed over by the unions. ;\)


Best post.
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#3037221 - 11/17/12 01:39 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Still-n-Quiet]
deerhunter10
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Unions need to be banned from the u.s. nothing good comes from them. I do not blame the owner one bit i probably would have done the same thing, just sucks for the people that worked there that had nothing to do with the union.
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#3037348 - 11/17/12 07:34 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
sawman
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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I see a newly restructured Hostess company opening factories and job opportunities in a right to work state in the very near future
I'm with crappie on this one. Theres a hostess plant in M
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#3037352 - 11/17/12 07:36 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: sawman]
sawman
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Sorry about that. Thers a Hostess plant in Memphis. If we see it open back up in the future we may have the answer to this
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#3039602 - 11/18/12 09:27 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: sawman]
Dale3
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Dont worry China going to pick up the slack, they just now will be known as Wing Wong's and have a little lead taste to them

Edited by Dale3 (11/18/12 09:29 PM)

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#3039688 - 11/18/12 10:55 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
Locksley
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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I see a newly restructured Hostess company opening factories and job opportunities in a right to work state in the very near future


I see the brand being sold to a Mexican company so they can make money with the cheap labor they have and the USA will buy the stuff just like we buy Green Giant canned goods and KING LEO candy from Mexico now.
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#3039689 - 11/18/12 10:55 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Dale3]
Locksley
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 Originally Posted By: Dale3
Dont worry China going to pick up the slack, they just now will be known as Wing Wong's and have a little lead taste to them
LOL
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#3041799 - 11/20/12 09:23 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Locksley]
Spikes Tactical
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 Originally Posted By: Locksley
 Originally Posted By: Dale3
Dont worry China going to pick up the slack, they just now will be known as Wing Wong's and have a little lead taste to them
LOL


funny one
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#3043324 - 11/21/12 08:39 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
Kirk
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The parent company of Hostess is Interstate Brands. They are no stranger to bankruptcy and restructuring. They filed for bankruptcy in 2005 and came out of Chapter 11 in 2009. They have been battling the union for years. They claim they owe creditors over one billion in debt. With only a fraction of this debt being owed to actual suppliers.

The Bakery & Confectionary Union & Industry International Pension Fund has the largest claim, of $994 million.
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#3043355 - 11/21/12 08:59 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Kirk]
ncslickslayer
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Please read this in its entirety before responding. It obviously has an anti-Repub slant, but with the details included, after reading, is anyone still willing to lay total blame on the Union ?


http://www.politicususa.com/romney-vulture-capitalist-style-management-killed-hostess-unions.html


Two sides to every coin.

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#3043385 - 11/21/12 09:20 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Wildcat
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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
Please read this in its entirety before responding. It obviously has an anti-Repub slant, but with the details included, after reading, is anyone still willing to lay total blame on the Union ?


http://www.politicususa.com/romney-vulture-capitalist-style-management-killed-hostess-unions.html


Two sides to every coin.


LOL:!!!!

Talk about spin. That article is way out there.

They are tying Mitt Romney, the Republicans and Bain Capital to the Twinkies. LOL!!!!

Think about it with YOUR OWN MIND. They are trying to tie Romney, Republicans and Bain Capital to it so just how many so called "details" those same authors wrote would you beleive?????

Ever the Teamsters Union sided with the Company and they tried to tell the Bakers union to back off and not strike.

LOL!! When one UNION tells another UNION not to strike against a company then you all KNOW THE TRUTH. LOL!!!
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#3043410 - 11/21/12 09:36 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
ncslickslayer
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As I said, its obviously slanted. I'm not talking Romney, Bain, or any of that. Im simply asking do you think the Union is solely to blame ? Do you not believe either

Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry, and despite their financial woes, the company’s CEO got a 300% salary increase from $750,000 to $2,250,000, and other top executives received raises worth hundreds-of-thousands of dollars

or

Hostess workers previously made numerous concessions to keep the company afloat, but they were not enough for the company’s management so they stopped making contractually-obligated contributions to employee’s pensions to save money. The employees stayed on the job until management offered a new contract cutting wages and benefits an extra 27 – 32 percent that prompted employees to strike and thus become scapegoats for Hostess’s demise.

I guess my only point is it's not just as simple as "The Union caused it!!!!!!!"

Just my opinion, everyone has their own.

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#3043421 - 11/21/12 09:41 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Pic IN the Casa
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18,000 people paid dues to a bunch of fat cat union leaders and all it got them was fired.
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#3043423 - 11/21/12 09:43 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Pic IN the Casa]
Still-n-Quiet
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 Originally Posted By: Pic IN the Casa
18,000 people paid dues to a bunch of fat cat union leaders and all it got them was fired.



Good. Call that another learning opportunity.
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#3043426 - 11/21/12 09:45 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
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Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
Please read this in its entirety before responding. It obviously has an anti-Repub slant, but with the details included, after reading, is anyone still willing to lay total blame on the Union ?


http://www.politicususa.com/romney-vulture-capitalist-style-management-killed-hostess-unions.html


Two sides to every coin.


Yes, the union still deserves total blame for Hostess shutting down last week. A nonsensical, anti-business, anti-profit article on a website that brands itself as "Real Liberal Politics" does not change that. The Teamsters looked at Hostess's financials in detail and then told the bakery's union that the compnay's financial troubles were real. A few extra hundred thousand dollars in bonuses going to some Hostess executives in recent years may be controversial and a convenient excuse for anti-corporate and anti-capitalist leftists, but Hostess's debt problems are in the many millions of dollars because of unsustainable union contracts, a bad economy, and intense competition. You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die. In the end the unions were presented with 2 simple options: go back to work and make products that could be sold to bring in cash to keep the company running or stay on strike so the company has nothing to sell to pay the bills. They chose the later....
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#3043441 - 11/21/12 09:56 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Vermin93]
ncslickslayer
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Vermin93,

Nicely stated, intelligent response. Thanks.

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#3043463 - 11/21/12 10:15 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Vermin93]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2540
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.
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#3043496 - 11/21/12 10:42 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Wildcat
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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
As I said, its obviously slanted. I'm not talking Romney, Bain, or any of that. Im simply asking do you think the Union is solely to blame ? Do you not believe either

Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry, and despite their financial woes, the company’s CEO got a 300% salary increase from $750,000 to $2,250,000, and other top executives received raises worth hundreds-of-thousands of dollars

or

Hostess workers previously made numerous concessions to keep the company afloat, but they were not enough for the company’s management so they stopped making contractually-obligated contributions to employee’s pensions to save money. The employees stayed on the job until management offered a new contract cutting wages and benefits an extra 27 – 32 percent that prompted employees to strike and thus become scapegoats for Hostess’s demise.

I guess my only point is it's not just as simple as "The Union caused it!!!!!!!"

Just my opinion, everyone has their own.





LOL!!!!

Do you beleive ANYTHING in that article?? With that much slant you know as well as all the rest of us that nothing in that article is true.

Yes is IS as simple as the UNION CAUSED IT.

Ever the TEAMSTERS UNION blames the other union for causing it. You must be so unioon blind that you can't ever see when another union blames another union.
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#3043517 - 11/21/12 10:51 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
ncslickslayer
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Registered: 09/08/02
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Because the article is OBVIOUSLY slanted which I have now said three times, it means none of its contents are accurate ? I'm not Union blind. Never been a part of one, know very little about them. I also know blanket statements got that term for a reason.
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#3043533 - 11/21/12 10:59 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2540
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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If this is true (and I'm sure it isn't 100% true):

 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
...Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry, and despite their financial woes, the company’s CEO got a 300% salary increase from $750,000 to $2,250,000, and other top executives received raises worth hundreds-of-thousands of dollars...Hostess workers previously made numerous concessions to keep the company afloat, but they were not enough for the company’s management so they stopped making contractually-obligated contributions to employee’s pensions to save money. The employees stayed on the job until management offered a new contract cutting wages and benefits an extra 27 – 32 percent that prompted employees to strike and thus become scapegoats for Hostess’s demise....


then you absolutely cannot put sole blame on a Union. With all due respect, even the most anti-union people out there have to at least factor that in. I don't hate the rich, don't hate successful people, don't think they are one ounce better/worse than me but when a company is struggling EVERYONE should feel the heart burn not just those that happen to be lower on the todem pole. That's just my opinion when it comes to any company.
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#3043541 - 11/21/12 11:05 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ncslickslayer]
Wildcat
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 Originally Posted By: ncslickslayer
Because the article is OBVIOUSLY slanted which I have now said three times, it means none of its contents are accurate ? I'm not Union blind. Never been a part of one, know very little about them. I also know blanket statements got that term for a reason.


We all know you've said it three times yet you still believe any of it.

Left or right it doesn't mater but when any article is that slated it's there for a reason, to make their followers fall in line to what ever they say.

If I posted an article that was as far right slated as the one you posted would you really believe any of it?? Of course not. That is the very reason I do my OWN RESEARCH and do not depend on far right sources. I might read somethiong in a far right web site but I will then look it up myself.

Here another example of what I'm talking about. It was not too long ago that someone else on another hunting web site I'm on posted from that SAME WEB SITE your article is from about how George Bush and Dick Cheney ploted and set up the 9/11 attacks in detal. Oh the far left supporters ate it all up with gee and passed it on as Gods truth.
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#3043550 - 11/21/12 11:11 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BlountArrow]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10503
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.

At the beginning of this year, senior management agreed to a salary of $1 each per year, until the company was profitable again.

For those jumping on the "CEO got a $1.5M pay raise, that's why the company died!" bandwagon, note that the total payroll with benefits included is well over $1BILLION. The CEO's raise was roughly $81 per employee, which would have made virtually no difference.

The article bemoans Hostess closing plants that were unprofitable or no longer needed. That's called BUSINESS and MANAGEMENT, and is how companies become long-term concerns. The author obviously has neither experience, nor knowledge, of how to run a business.
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#3043555 - 11/21/12 11:18 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
ncslickslayer
4 Point


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Posts: 182
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Fair enough regarding your other example, Wildcat, but I think most folks with a little sense would not believe some cockamamy 9/11 plot theory involving Bush/Cheney, but WOULD possibly believe that the bigwigs at Hostess were rolling in the dough to the bitter end while whittling away (or trying to) at the peons at the bottom. Sound plausible in the least ? I know nothing of the website I posted from other than I saw a link to it, read it, felt the anti GOP venom (anti business, anti capitalist, whatever you want to call it), but also saw a very believable (to me) example of what I think hurts our economy. Greed at the top, pure and simple. Again, my opinion only, and Im sure you dont agree, Wildcat. Ive been on this site a long time, dont post much, but have read alot of your posts, and always thought you were very intelligent, and I still do. Happy holidays to you.
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#3043563 - 11/21/12 11:24 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BMan]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2540
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

content Online
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.

At the beginning of this year, senior management agreed to a salary of $1 each per year, until the company was profitable again.

For those jumping on the "CEO got a $1.5M pay raise, that's why the company died!" bandwagon, note that the total payroll with benefits included is well over $1BILLION. The CEO's raise was roughly $81 per employee, which would have made virtually no difference.

The article bemoans Hostess closing plants that were unprofitable or no longer needed. That's called BUSINESS and MANAGEMENT, and is how companies become long-term concerns. The author obviously has neither experience, nor knowledge, of how to run a business.


For the record, I'm not jumping on the CEO band wagon that it was the CEO's $alary to fault the whole show going down the drain. However, for example, the VP where I'm at could take a $1/year salary and still get hundreds of thousands of dollars in incentive pay/bonuses but that isn't considered "salary". I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but like you eluded to you have to look at these articles further than just face value and not get fooled by the play on words that sometimes occurs. Maybe a bitter, selfish union is to blame though. I've been around long enough to see the good and bad of unions and they all seem to be different and differ greatly some more cooperative than others to say the least. With some companies, with some management, there is, unfortunately, still a need for them.
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-Ronald Firbank

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#3043570 - 11/21/12 11:27 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BlountArrow]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 5638
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.


Senior Hostess executives were given large pay raises by the Hostess board prior to the most recent bankruptcy filing. The justification that was given for the pay raises is that a large portion of the compensation packages for the Hostess executives was tied to incentive performance bonuses that were not realistically achievable due to the company's degrading financial position. Think of it as a NFL player who signs a contract that has a certain guaranteed base salary but who also gets significant performance incentive bonuses if he scores a certain number of touchdowns, catches a certain number of passes, gets selected to the Pro Bowl, etc. (these type of incentive bonuses exist in the NFL). That player's team may end up being really bad that year and he might never have a realistic chance of reaching the performance incentives in his contract, in which case he would only make his base salary and probably be pretty unhappy. In the case of Hostess, the board decided that since the company was doing way too poorly for the executives to have a chance to achieve their incentive performance bonuses, they would instead increase the executive salaries to make up for it. The thought was that this would make their total compensation packages competitive with senior executives at other companies and that it would ensure the Hostess executives would stay on board to help navigate the company through bankruptcy instead of quitting and going elsewhere. Basically, the Hostess board gave them pay raises to get them to stay. I understand the philosophy of what they were trying to do and I agree with it to an extent because you have to have seasoned executives in place to run a company even in bankruptcy, but some of the salary increases seemed excessive and they looked bad to the rest of the Hostess employees.

What happened next is that a new CEO (Gregory F. Rayburn) came in earlier this year and rolled back most of the executive pay raises. Even though Mr. Rayburn came in and took away most of the pay raises for the executives and gave himself and his four top executives a salary of only $1 for 2012, he is still being vilified by the unions and liberals.

Now, you have to look at the math. If you look at the Snopes link below it shows you which executives were given pay raises (most of which have since been taken away) and it shows you have much the pay raises were. If you add them all up it's an extra $3.85 million a year. Hostess's financial troubles were (are) many magnitudes more than that. Whether the executive raises happened or not, it was not going to save Hostess. The union contracts are many, many, many more times larger than the combined executive pay because of the sheer number of union employees at Hostess.

This whole liberal argument that tries to pin the blame on 10 executives and their combined raises of $3.85 million for Hostess's problems, which are in the many tens of millions of dollars, is just a smoke screen to try to protect the union brand. It's an emotional position that's not supported by simple math or Hostess's financial books.

Now, whether or not Hostess executives did a poor job of managing the overall business over the past several years is entirely another question. I'm sure they made some decisions that turned out to be bad ones. However, that doesn't change the reality that the company simply couldn't afford to keep paying the union what it was paying them. The union didn't want to accept reality and keep their jobs and live to fight another day with a new executive team.

You can read more about it here....

Creditors Say Hostess Pay Is Questionable

Hostess Rolls Back Some Executive Pay Raises

Snopes: Hostess with the Mostest
_________________________
“The more I read and the more I listen, the more apparent it is that our society suffers from an alarming degree of public ignorance” - Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor

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#3043605 - 11/21/12 11:48 AM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Vermin93]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42090
Loc: Western Ky.

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Several people on here are right on the "money".

Every single time the "unions" talk about the "CEO'S" of companies they will NEVER talk abut the "weekly payrolls". A CEO's YEARLY pay is LESS than the unions WEEKLY PAYROLL. Far, far less. Think about how much 18,500 people were making a week ina UNION SHOP, add them up and you are talking real money here.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3043614 - 11/21/12 12:03 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Wildcat]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60880
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If the CEO was able to turn the company around, his salary would have been money well spent. He wasn't so his salary is a moot point. He's out of a job also.

I specially like this line "Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry"

What do they think CEO's do, mix matter and ice cakes? I guess a runner up from cupcake wars would have been a wiser choice to manage a $billion industry.....

I hate liberals and their ignorant ideas of business.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3043626 - 11/21/12 12:17 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: BlountArrow]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10503
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93
...You can't change your competition and the economy, but you can try to change the union contracts that have you sending more money out the door than you are bringing in with sales of your products.

That article is in denial of the fact that Hostess was simply losing too much money and needed to right size it's cost structure or die...


So, let me ask because I don't know. Was the senior management/executive staff/supervision/etc willing to take cut backs themselves or did they just want to cut back the pay/incentives/benefits of the "union man"? Sometimes there really can be two sides to the story which is why I ask and you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the whole ordeal.
Thanks.

At the beginning of this year, senior management agreed to a salary of $1 each per year, until the company was profitable again.

For those jumping on the "CEO got a $1.5M pay raise, that's why the company died!" bandwagon, note that the total payroll with benefits included is well over $1BILLION. The CEO's raise was roughly $81 per employee, which would have made virtually no difference.

The article bemoans Hostess closing plants that were unprofitable or no longer needed. That's called BUSINESS and MANAGEMENT, and is how companies become long-term concerns. The author obviously has neither experience, nor knowledge, of how to run a business.


For the record, I'm not jumping on the CEO band wagon that it was the CEO's $alary to fault the whole show going down the drain. However, for example, the VP where I'm at could take a $1/year salary and still get hundreds of thousands of dollars in incentive pay/bonuses but that isn't considered "salary". I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but like you eluded to you have to look at these articles further than just face value and not get fooled by the play on words that sometimes occurs. Maybe a bitter, selfish union is to blame though. I've been around long enough to see the good and bad of unions and they all seem to be different and differ greatly some more cooperative than others to say the least. With some companies, with some management, there is, unfortunately, still a need for them.

The "jumping on the bandwagon" comment is intended for the authors of these articles who trot the same old class envy arguments that work so well on the feeble-minded, not (necessarily) anyone on this site.
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#3043636 - 11/21/12 12:26 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Crappie Luck]
Kirk
Cerebral Assassin
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Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 10282
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I specially like this line "Hostess’s failure was compounded by having six CEO’s in 8 years who had no experience in the bread or cake baking industry"

What do they think CEO's do, mix matter and ice cakes? I guess a runner up from cupcake wars would have been a wiser choice to manage a $billion industry.....

I hate liberals and their ignorant ideas of business.


I totally agree. They have had 8 CEOs because they are trying to find a way to stop the hemorrhaging. I would venture a guess that the Union leadership has not been as vigilant in reducing costs to insure their members continue to work. They just keep beating the same drum over and over.

As I stated in another post, the Snack Food industry is a low margin product category. You can't pay union wages and pensions and hope to earn a profit worthy of investor expectations. Once the investor dollars dry up, the only hope is to reduce costs or get lines of credit. The profit problem is also compounded by the super retailers that want to pay less than manufactured cost for the product. You basically donate profit to the super retailers if you want shelf space.

There are several variables at work in the Interstate brands bankruptcy, however, the Union issue is the one that is causing the current liquidation of assets.

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I make good money, I help the Family, but one thing must be understood, I would never go against the Godfather. Ruger is a man I respect. Luca Brasi

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#3043947 - 11/21/12 05:18 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ]
Dale3
8 Point


Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1304
Loc: Live in Mt.Juliet ,Hunt Jackso...

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They didnt get to this point and in this mess, due to one side or the other. This happen due to one side asking for stupid and the other side agreeing to stupid.

Anyone who ask for stupid in contract's between two or more party's gets what they deserve sooner or later!

Anyone one who agrees to stupid in contract's between two or more party's get what they deserve sooner or later!

Now they finally have someone on one side who says they cant do stupid anymore.
If someone had been that smart long ago, they not be where they are.
They didnt, both sides were and are to blame for what they asked for and what they agreed too.

Bad agreed to by both sides contracts are bad contracts period!
You dont need a company this size or a union.

If your in business for yourself, and you agreed to such contracts, no matter if you were being contracted for a job or the person agreeing to inter into and contract you for the job, you both be out of business before long, agreeing to such bad contracts.
If your requiring to be over paid or if your over paying, either way, either side, you will be out of business before long.

Now someone finally got smart here and said, Hey we cant do stupid anymore, we're both going to lose out if we do!
The other side chose to continue being stupid, so now it is the union to blame.


Edited by Dale3 (11/21/12 05:34 PM)

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#3044001 - 11/21/12 05:59 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: ]
Kirk
Cerebral Assassin
16 Point


Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 10282
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA

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 Originally Posted By: youngandfree
I overheard someone from Hostess on a local radio show say the Unions had the company burdened with ignorant business practices. 2 sets of Union employees, one to shuttle, load, and deliver Twinkies and another to shuttle, load and deliver their wonderbread, even though they were both made at the same plant, and shipped to the same stores.


I heard the same thing. They were running DSD routes and were forced to use quadruple labor to deliver the products. By contract, the bread and cake could not occupy the same truck. By contract, the driver could not pull the product and had to have a helper pull and stock shelves.

In a non-union environment the truck would have one route driver and be loaded with both types of product. The driver would pull and stock the shelves.

Union Wage Scenario:
Lets say for instance the driver made $18.00 an hour and helper made $17.00. That is $35 an hour for each truck or $70 an hour for delivering the two products separately. They had an estimated 5000 DSD routes they ran daily. 5000 x $35 X8= $1,400,000 a day in DSD delivery labor charges.

Non Union Scenario:
Driver earns $18.00 an hour and delivers both products. 2500X $18 X8= $360,000 in DSD Delivery charges. PLUS 2500 less trucks are now needed to accomplish the same work load. Even if they require 4 hours of OT a day it is still only at $468,000

A million a day in labor savings.
_________________________
I make good money, I help the Family, but one thing must be understood, I would never go against the Godfather. Ruger is a man I respect. Luca Brasi

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#3045942 - 11/23/12 02:00 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: Kirk]
TOW
10 Point


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 4245
Loc: Back 40

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http://www.foxnews.com/recipe/ashton-warrens-perfect-twinkie-recipe
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#3047308 - 11/24/12 06:59 PM Re: good bye Twinkie. thanks unions [Re: TOW]
citico_tim
10 Point


Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 4563
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA

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I didn't see any mention of this so allow me to provide a twist to the saga. The private equity firm that controls Hostess is run by an influential democrat with the help of former House Speaker Richard Gephardt a democrat. There are also quite a few union ties to both. (The second article is more detailed.)

"After acquiring Hostess Brands, Ripplewood hired former house minority leader and presidential candidate, Richard Gephardt – a longtime friend of labor – to work out a deal with organized labor to lower labor costs. As a token of good will, Gephardt’s son was appointed to the Hostess board at an annual compensation of $100,000. Timothy C. Collins clearly had his political bases covered. His money, however, meant little to labor leaders."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderick...-equity-a-pass/

And:

"Ripplewood is run by Tim Collins, 55, who's been at the center of other famed PE transactions. Known as a brilliant capitalist-philanthropist-networker, he's an eclectic character: a Democrat in an industry of Republicans;"

"Ripplewood's foray into Hostess was partly enabled by Collins's connections in the Democratic Party. He wanted to explore deals with union-involved companies and sought the help of former congressman Gephardt, who in 2005 founded the Gephardt Group, an Atlanta consulting firm that provides "labor advisory services." In his 2004 presidential bid, Gephardt -- whose father was a Teamsters milk truck driver -- was endorsed by 21 of the largest U.S. labor unions; in 2003, Collins was one of 19 "founding members" of Gephardt's New York State leadership committee. (Today, Ripplewood and Hostess are listed online as major clients of Gephardt's consulting group, which is also an equity owner of Hostess.) Back when Hostess was coming out of the first bankruptcy, Gephardt's credibility with both Ripplewood and the Teamsters gave them each a little more room to break bread."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-16/hostess-liquidation-curious-cast-characters-twinkie-tumbles


Well well. To all our "brothers", it does appear that democrats have slammed the union and killed 18,500 jobs. Priceless. Just remember, in a democracy you get the government you deserve.

If PE firms are vultures, as the teamster boss claims, then the union must be roadkill.
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"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

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