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#3034441 - 11/15/12 10:52 AM Mature buck rub?
Big Tasty
Spike


Registered: 08/13/12
Posts: 52
Loc: TN

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Hey guys- I'm a newbie, and just found this new rub 30 yards from my stand on a tree bordering my food plot. Is this from a mature buck?


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#3034524 - 11/15/12 11:33 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: Big Tasty]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Not necessarily from a mature buck, but most likely from an older buck. Larger diameter rubs are almost always started by bucks 2 1/2 or older, but even 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks can innitiate some pretty darn big rubs.
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#3034545 - 11/15/12 11:43 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: BSK]
BigD_625
10 Point


Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 3367
Loc: Maury County, TN

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Good rub!
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#3034550 - 11/15/12 11:45 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: BigD_625]
htnseymour
8 Point


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 1521
Loc: sevier county Tn

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Nice rub, now to find out what it is you will need it to hold still for aging, best way is to put shoot it then post pics. Or if you like send me those gps coordinates and I will find it for you.

\:\)
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#3034555 - 11/15/12 11:47 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: htnseymour]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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Big and small deer can rub big or small trees just never know til you start hunting it.
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#3034570 - 11/15/12 11:54 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
Phil1979
12 Point


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 5338
Loc: Arlington, TN

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Nice rub. Good luck.
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#3034620 - 11/15/12 12:20 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65387
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
Big and small deer can rub big or small trees just never know til you start hunting it.


Not necessarily the case. All age bucks will initiate rubs on small-diameter trees. But only older bucks initiate rubs on large diameter trees. However, once initiated, all rubs are communal, in that every buck in the area may rework the rub another buck started. When it comes to true sign-post rubs (those trees that are rubbed year after year), every deer in the area will work them, and does will sniff and lick them. That is the rubs purpose--a communal "pheramone wick."
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3034858 - 11/15/12 02:31 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: BSK]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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Haha your just full of info aren't ya... as i said before big and small bucks can rub big or small trees. As stated the scientific way in the post above me.
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#3034884 - 11/15/12 02:45 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
ferg
Cancer Free
16 Point


Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 15814
Loc: At the TNDeer shirt factory %^...

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I think you missed the point dh10, if it's on a large diameter tree, it was 'started' by an older buck. So the size of the tree, no matter how many other bucks have rubbed on it, indicates there is an older deer in the area -

ferg....
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#3034900 - 11/15/12 02:50 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: ferg]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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There is absolutely no way that anyone could prove that. Every buck has a different personality. So who says a little four point couldn't tear up a decent size tree. Science cannot prove that at all.
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#3034923 - 11/15/12 03:08 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
Dbllunger
10 Point


Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 4678
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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Popcorn....check
salt....check
butter....check
cold drink....check


Ok, I'm ready....GO!
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#3034931 - 11/15/12 03:14 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: BSK]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
16 Point


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 15232
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
There is absolutely no way that anyone could prove that. Every buck has a different personality. So who says a little four point couldn't tear up a decent size tree. Science cannot prove that at all.


VVVVVV That was a scientific answer.... we know him as a Deer Biologist.

 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
Big and small deer can rub big or small trees just never know til you start hunting it.


Not necessarily the case. All age bucks will initiate rubs on small-diameter trees. But only older bucks initiate rubs on large diameter trees. However, once initiated, all rubs are communal, in that every buck in the area may rework the rub another buck started. When it comes to true sign-post rubs (those trees that are rubbed year after year), every deer in the area will work them, and does will sniff and lick them. That is the rubs purpose--a communal "pheramone wick."
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#3034936 - 11/15/12 03:19 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: Grizzly Johnson]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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I know he is a biologist but there is absolutely no way to 100 percent say that small bucks cant rub big trees before a mature buck does. There is no way to prove that. At all
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#3034952 - 11/15/12 03:38 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

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I think I see dh10's point, even off 99 out of 100 times a mature buck rubs a bigger tree, maybe there is that odd one out, young deer that rubs a bigger tree. But if bsk says only the older deer rub bigger trees, then even if there is a minuscule chance of it being some little deer, I'd say a big rub on a wide tree would be almost definitely an older buck.
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#3034971 - 11/15/12 03:46 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: catman529]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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Of course when you see a big rub you think big deer but as cat said and.my point there is no way to prove it. And plus science is wrong a lot. A whole lot
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#3034980 - 11/15/12 03:54 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
ferg
Cancer Free
16 Point


Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 15814
Loc: At the TNDeer shirt factory %^...

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In before the door shuts \:D \:D

Tic....tic....tic....tic....tic \:D \:D \:D \:D
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#3035004 - 11/15/12 04:04 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
Southern Sportsman
6 Point


Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 957
Loc: West TN

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
There is absolutely no way that anyone could prove that. Every buck has a different personality. So who says a little four point couldn't tear up a decent size tree. Science cannot prove that at all.


Based on this reasoning . . . how do we even know that a deer made the "rub"? Perhaps it was black panther using the tree as a scratching posts to sharpen his claws. Science can't prove that there isn't a black panther scratching trees in that area. So people need to stop posting pictures of their scarred up trees assuming that deer are to blame.

Although science can't prove that it wasn't a black panther, based on everything we know about deer and their activity, we can safely assume that this is a deer rub.

Similarly, it is my understanding that BSK has devoted the majority of his life to studying deer and deer behavior. Therefore he knows more about deer social behavior than . . . well . . . everyone else here. And based on what he knows about deer, it's safe to say that large rubs are started by 2.5+ deer. That's good enough for me.

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#3035008 - 11/15/12 04:09 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: Dbllunger]
StalkingWolf
8 Point


Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1341
Loc: Dyersburg, TN, USA

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That tree looks to have been rubbed the year before, then again this year. You can see the core of the tree where the bark split open.

Edited by StalkingWolf (11/15/12 04:11 PM)

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#3035014 - 11/15/12 04:12 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: Southern Sportsman]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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Yeah well i have prove that's not true my buddy filmed a kids first deer harvest and it was a yearling buck based on the jaw bone and footage of this deer taring up a tree so no i.don't agree with what he is saying science can't prove everything. And even though he is "studying them for a living" does not mean he is right every time or has seen everything.
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#3035016 - 11/15/12 04:12 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: Southern Sportsman]
Bowdacious
Skillet
16 Point


Registered: 09/01/00
Posts: 16161
Loc: over here

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Talk about arguing with a fence post. And women get a bad rap for trying to get the last word in. I may have to come read here more often. \:\)
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#3035056 - 11/15/12 04:38 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
bowhunter163
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2495
Loc: knoxville,tn

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
Yeah well i have prove that's not true my buddy filmed a kids first deer harvest and it was a yearling buck based on the jaw bone and footage of this deer taring up a tree so no i.don't agree with what he is saying science can't prove everything. And even though he is "studying them for a living" does not mean he is right every time or has seen everything.
Worthless without the video .....


He's not talking about the small and medium sized trees . He's talking about large diameter trees . A small buck will not start a rub on a large tree . But he will come to the rub after it Is made to check it out and put his two cents in .


And you seem to be trying to start an argument here . Your first post was argumentative and had "an attitude " . We don't like all that childish nonsense over here ...... If you wanna argue go to archerytalk. \:\)
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#3035064 - 11/15/12 04:47 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: bowhunter163]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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I don't have an attitude yal think what ever he says is true. Common sense tells you some is not and some people have other opinions so i mean i don't agree with him i have seen it and other people have to. Just because he is a biologist does not mean all his data and conclusions are right. And many other biologist say the exact same thing i said. I am not saying he is bad at what he does are that MOST deer follow his conclusion but not all do. That's all I'm saying. I don't have an attitude at all.
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#3035099 - 11/15/12 05:18 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
bowhunter163
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2495
Loc: knoxville,tn

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
I don't have an attitude yal think what ever he says is true. Common sense tells you some is not and some people have other opinions so i mean i don't agree with him i have seen it and other people have to. Just because he is a biologist does not mean all his data and conclusions are right. And many other biologist say the exact same thing i said. I am not saying he is bad at what he does are that MOST deer follow his conclusion but not all do. That's all I'm saying. I don't have an attitude at all.
The biologists you speak of are probably considering young deer In a different category , saying immature bucks will rub big trees . What they mean are immature bucks "In their mind 2 1/2 " can and will start rubs on bigger sized trees ... I think BSK is calling an older deer 2 1/2 or older . Not a mature deer . I dont think he is saying every big rub is started by a mature 4 1/2 yr old deer . Let's just say that if the tree is as big as my leg I don't care what you or anyone else says a 1 1/2 yr old buck did not initiate it . A yearling will come scent check it and tickle it a little , but a 2 1/2 yr old buck or older has initiated it .

I know I'm giving in to keep this argument going but I'm just trying to explain this in a different light . Because what BSK is saying is not wrong.


Edited by bowhunter163 (11/15/12 05:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling
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#3035135 - 11/15/12 05:43 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: bowhunter163]
ClubHead
6 Point


Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 787
Loc: Benton Co.Ky Lake,Tn

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I hunted a 171 inch deer several years back.He had a rub line that was in about a 3 mile circle,cedars the size of my leg.He was finally taken by a guy on down from where I was huntin.I saw several younger deer hit these rubs when I hunted them.I knew they didnt start these rubs cause this deer was seen for 3 years at night by coonhunters.This deer had rubbed at least 200 to 300 trees.
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#3035150 - 11/15/12 05:53 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: ClubHead]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

confused Online
Dh10 you might want to try and learn from the info here instead of trying to assert your dominance over bsk. He might snort wheeze at you and you know a 4 point doesn't stand much chance against a non-typical......
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#3035158 - 11/15/12 05:58 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: catman529]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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I'm not trying to state my dominance over any one. I stated that i have a different opinion. I respect his stand on the issue. But i don't buy this one it just doesn't make sense to me. That's all i am saying all his people jumped my case and i defended my stance. That is all
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#3035172 - 11/15/12 06:07 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: catman529]
Mudbone
10 Point


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 3380
Loc: Williamson cty. Tn

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Dh10, you must be huntin some mean bucks! Gotta say I've never seen a young buck walk up to an unworked ten inch tree and shred it! Take me with you, sounds like you could teach me a lot!
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#3035183 - 11/15/12 06:13 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: Mudbone]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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I never said a 10 tree but i have seen little bucks tare up a good size tree.
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#3039990 - 11/19/12 08:19 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65387
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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
I know he is a biologist but there is absolutely no way to 100 percent say that small bucks cant rub big trees before a mature buck does. There is no way to prove that. At all


Numerous studies have been conducted on buck rubbing behavior. Although it is impossible to say young bucks never initiated rubs on large diameter trees, it would not be the norm, nor common. Rubs on large diameter trees are almost always initiated by older bucks, although even a 2 1/2 year-old will initiate rubs on some pretty big trees.

From my research, I found that rubbed trees the diameter of a Coke can were very indicative of the population of 2 1/2+ year-old bucks in the area. The more trees of this size rubbed in the area, the more 2 1/2+ year-old bucks in the area.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3039992 - 11/19/12 08:19 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65387
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
And plus science is wrong a lot. A whole lot


And that's the comment of someone who will never "get it."
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3040239 - 11/19/12 11:06 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: BSK]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 16587
Loc: Franklin TN

confused Online
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
I know he is a biologist but there is absolutely no way to 100 percent say that small bucks cant rub big trees before a mature buck does. There is no way to prove that. At all


Numerous studies have been conducted on buck rubbing behavior. Although it is impossible to say young bucks never initiated rubs on large diameter trees, it would not be the norm, nor common. Rubs on large diameter trees are almost always initiated by older bucks, although even a 2 1/2 year-old will initiate rubs on some pretty big trees.

From my research, I found that rubbed trees the diameter of a Coke can were very indicative of the population of 2 1/2+ year-old bucks in the area. The more trees of this size rubbed in the area, the more 2 1/2+ year-old bucks in the area.
good info that I will remember in the woods. When I hunted my big rub line on friday, I saw two bucks that were 3.5+ by the neck. One morning and one evening, shot the evening one, he might be 4.5. I am hooked on hunting the big rubs now!
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#3040255 - 11/19/12 11:12 AM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: catman529]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3392
Loc: maury county tn

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I'm not sure what i am suppose to be getting?? I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong but there is no way to prove it. And i can name three big things science is wrong on 1. The big bang theory 2. The age of the earth 3. Global warming. I know they have nothing to do with deer but science is wrong all the time. And if you ask 10 biologist 10 different questions about deer and their behavior you will get 10 different answers.
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#3040644 - 11/19/12 02:51 PM Re: Mature buck rub? [Re: deerhunter10]
WVBulldog
4 Point


Registered: 07/31/11
Posts: 339
Loc: Franklin County, TN

Offline
wow.
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