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#3032914 - 11/14/12 11:16 AM Mature buck or not?
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
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Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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I found BSK's handy dandy deer aging post with pictures to be quite helpful but wanted to get a second opinion on one. I have a small farm and combined with a neighbor we have close to 500 acres and I've been managing my piece for about 7 years and have never taken the first buck off of it. We just don't see very many mature bucks - ever; and I'm just not going to throw away my hardwork by killing an imature buck (that's just me and that's just the way I see it). In my area bucks probably rarely, very rarely make it past age 2.5. However last year and this year, I actually started getting a buck or two on film that I believe are mature and I had another pic of a monster.

I can't post pictures because I cannot access the Photobucket website from this computer. I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to post a pic or two for me so you guys could tell me what you think the age of the deer is, i.e. whether or not he's mature.
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#3032938 - 11/14/12 11:26 AM Re: Mature buck or not? [Re: BlountArrow]
BigD_625
10 Point


Registered: 09/30/09
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PM Sent.
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#3032946 - 11/14/12 11:28 AM Re: Mature buck or not? [Re: BigD_625]
BlountArrow
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Thanks a lot BigD, pics sent you.
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#3032976 - 11/14/12 11:46 AM Re: Mature buck or not? [Re: BlountArrow]
BigD_625
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#3033007 - 11/14/12 12:00 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BigD_625]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
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Thanks Again, BigD.
What do you think, guys....Mature Buck?....Age?
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#3033014 - 11/14/12 12:05 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
travle
4 Point


Registered: 10/16/12
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Loc: NW Tenn

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Definately mature look at that sagging belly... at minimum i'd go 4.5 but i'm sure its atleast 5.5
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#3033023 - 11/14/12 12:14 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: travle]
travle
4 Point


Registered: 10/16/12
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Loc: NW Tenn

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You are headed in the right direction on ur management efforts i'd say. it does take time especially if others around u arent practicing the same way you are.
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#3033031 - 11/14/12 12:26 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: travle]
BlountArrow
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 Originally Posted By: travle
You are headed in the right direction on ur management efforts i'd say. it does take time especially if others around u arent practicing the same way you are.


Thanks...obviously the date and time stamps are off BTW. I have one Bushnell Trophy Cam that when the batteries get a little weak it stops keeping track of date and time for some reason. I'm not experienced with judging age at all and I was thinking more like 3.5 - 4.5 tops.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
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#3033035 - 11/14/12 12:29 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
156p&y
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Registered: 10/23/01
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Looks like at least 5.5 to me; 3.5 he would not have that gut and usually 4.5 year olds don't have a gut either.
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#3033043 - 11/14/12 12:36 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
String Music
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
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Definately mature. He could easily be 5 1/2 based on his waist line, deep chest and full back hams. Also, he appears to be asserting his dominance over the younger buck in the last picture.

This is evidence of your management practices. Even with an intense harvest of younger bucks, there are always a few that slip through and reach maturity. However, if the hunting pressure is high, those that do reach maturity will likely relocate.

If you don't already, you need to leave certain areas of your property completely off limits. Mature bucks need a stress-free core area that is free from human intrusion.
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#3033060 - 11/14/12 12:47 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
BlountArrow
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Wow, guys I definitely have some age studying to do as I would not have imagined he was that old. Maybe I can down me a big Mountain Buck here like ol' String Music. We do have a couple places that are fortunately off limits just by the natural lay of the terrain, but something I need to be more serious about indeed.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
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#3033103 - 11/14/12 01:09 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
BSK
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At least 4 1/2. Might be 5 1/2.
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#3033117 - 11/14/12 01:14 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BSK]
BlountArrow
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
At least 4 1/2. Might be 5 1/2.


Excellent, I was hoping you might chime in. Well, just goes to show like you have said...you can't go by the antlers. He's a trophy to me for a lot of reasons but doesn't sport a trophy rack to some guys on here I'm sure. I'd be thrilled to take him personally.
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#3033129 - 11/14/12 01:19 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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I would be thrilled to take ANY mature buck, even if both antlers were broken off!
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3033135 - 11/14/12 01:21 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
BigD_625
10 Point


Registered: 09/30/09
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Loc: Maury County, TN

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Glad to help. Great deer!!! Hope you get him.
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#3033142 - 11/14/12 01:24 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BSK]
BlountArrow
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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I would be thrilled to take ANY mature buck, even if both antlers were broken off!


Couldn't agree more. I used to not think that way earlier in my hunting career.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
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#3033202 - 11/14/12 02:02 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
Winchester
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Registered: 12/05/03
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Fully mature imo!
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#3033260 - 11/14/12 02:43 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: Winchester]
Dbllunger
10 Point


Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 4682
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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Awesome mature deer. My guess would be 4.5
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#3033353 - 11/14/12 04:12 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
travle
4 Point


Registered: 10/16/12
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Loc: NW Tenn

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I didn't see the second deer in the picture, but he is displaying some dominance for sure. He's ears looked pinned back, and his neck looks a little swollen.
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#3033360 - 11/14/12 04:22 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
travle
4 Point


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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
He's a trophy to me for a lot of reasons but doesn't sport a trophy rack to some guys on here I'm sure. I'd be thrilled to take him personally.



I believe he would be a nice trophy for a lot of folks. He would be for me also, as i don't see a lot of bucks this size. The only thing i see he could be lacking in is his mass. Maybe if mass is a concern for you, might not be, you could put out several mineral locations to help future bucks produce heavier racks. I know a personal friend of mine that puts out mineral lick locations that he mixes into the ground. Those deer have those spots tore up to the size of a truck hood or bigger and have it dug out pretty deep.

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#3033364 - 11/14/12 04:32 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: travle]
plinker22
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Registered: 02/07/05
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BSK has a class on Aging Deer on the Hoof. It was the beginning of my learning to age bucks. You can also find many pictures on the internet. However, timing makes all the difference. In the late Fall, near the rut, bucks are much easier to age.

Your buck... very mature. Neck, chest, gut, hams, short legs, antler bases: all point to Mature Deer.

Hope to see his jaw-bone soon. \:D Hope you get him.
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#3033388 - 11/14/12 04:51 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: travle]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: travle
Maybe if mass is a concern for you, might not be, you could put out several mineral locations to help future bucks produce heavier racks.


Unfortunately, there is no scientific evidence what-so-ever that mineral supplementation does anything for deer or antler growth.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3033462 - 11/14/12 06:12 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BSK]
travle
4 Point


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I'm sorry, but i just don't see how minerals that you buy from Co-op that support animal health wouldn't support a deer's health. Every animal needs nutrients to support a healthy body. Even we do.
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#3033494 - 11/14/12 06:39 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: travle]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: travle
I'm sorry, but i just don't see how minerals that you buy from Co-op that support animal health wouldn't support a deer's health. Every animal needs nutrients to support a healthy body. Even we do.


Yet there is no evidence those minerals are even digestible by deer let alone actually do anything. And I promise you, mineral supplementation makers have tried to produce evidence of health improvements. So far, nada.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3033766 - 11/14/12 10:09 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BlountArrow]
String Music
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
Wow, guys I definitely have some age studying to do as I would not have imagined he was that old. Maybe I can down me a big Mountain Buck here like ol' String Music. We do have a couple places that are fortunately off limits just by the natural lay of the terrain, but something I need to be more serious about indeed.


Figure out where he beds and your chances of harvesting will increase. Do you have a topo of your property?
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#3033797 - 11/14/12 10:58 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
tikkashooter
8 Point


Registered: 08/23/01
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Brother I hunt here in Blount and the best buck I have seen was an 8 this year and he wasn't near as big as the smallest of those three. I would say they are all shooters around here for sure!
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#3033800 - 11/14/12 11:00 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
deerhunter10
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Registered: 08/21/12
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Imo he's 3.5 he doesn't seem to have the mass of a 4.5 or 5.5 deer we have killed 3.5 year olds before and field dressed over 200 pounds so can't just go off of body. He has a good good body but not much mass for me to say he is above 3.5. Imo
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#3033868 - 11/15/12 05:34 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED - UPDATE [Re: deerhunter10]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
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So, I ran out real quick yesterday to grab a trail cam that is in a different spot than these night time photos and guess who strolled through at 9:50am on Mon 11/12 and guess who strolled through yesterday evening at 4:58pm. Yes, sir - this buck right here. "Unfortunately", I have prior hunting commitments with a friend and his family elsewhere so my brother and I did some serious figuring last night and hopefully my brother can get on this buck. We already have a stand in the day time photos location and you can slip into it very quietly. If the wind is right maybe my brother will get him Saturday. But, things never seem to go exactly as planned.
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#3033889 - 11/15/12 06:01 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
HOOK
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 05/01/99
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Very....I'd put him at 6.5
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#3033896 - 11/15/12 06:13 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED - UPDATE [Re: String Music]
BlountArrow
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 Originally Posted By: String Music
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
Wow, guys I definitely have some age studying to do as I would not have imagined he was that old. Maybe I can down me a big Mountain Buck here like ol' String Music. We do have a couple places that are fortunately off limits just by the natural lay of the terrain, but something I need to be more serious about indeed.


Figure out where he beds and your chances of harvesting will increase. Do you have a topo of your property?


Now that I have daytime photos we're hoping we can make it happen. I have a pretty good idea of where he could be bedding. The only maps I have of the property are off of the property assessor's website - but I grew up here so I know the lay of the land from years of boot work.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3034019 - 11/15/12 07:50 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
Imo he's 3.5 he doesn't seem to have the mass of a 4.5 or 5.5 deer we have killed 3.5 year olds before and field dressed over 200 pounds so can't just go off of body. He has a good good body but not much mass for me to say he is above 3.5. Imo


Are you talking antler mass? If so, never, never, never use antlers to judge age. Antlers will fool you more often than any other body feature. In any given location, each age-class of buck will grow such a wide range of antler sizes that there will be overlap between the largest-antlered yearling buck and the smallest-antlered mature buck. And that goes for every aspect of antler size, from beam length to number of points to mass to tine length to spread to gross score. The most accurate measure of age is body conformation, and of all the possible body conformations, neck size near the rut and chest depth in relation to front leg length are the two best age indicators.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3034084 - 11/15/12 08:33 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BSK]
SelphLogging
4 Point


Registered: 12/08/11
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Loc: Humphreys Co., Tn

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So, BSK, where do you stand in regards to aging deer by the jaw bone? On the hoof in pictures with all the different body formations is one thing, but after harvest is all the body characteristics thrown out and solely age the deer by the jawbone?
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#3034098 - 11/15/12 08:39 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
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No you go by ever detail you can its a proven fact that mass comes with age.
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#3034125 - 11/15/12 08:50 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: SelphLogging
So, BSK, where do you stand in regards to aging deer by the jaw bone? On the hoof in pictures with all the different body formations is one thing, but after harvest is all the body characteristics thrown out and solely age the deer by the jawbone?


I was only commenting on field-judging buck age (by eye or from trail-camera picture). The best over-all judgement of age is toothwear in the Southeast and cementum annuli in the Midwest and North.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3034127 - 11/15/12 08:50 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: deerhunter10]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
No you go by ever detail you can its a proven fact that mass comes with age.


Actually it is NOT proven fact.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3034138 - 11/15/12 08:54 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: deerhunter10]
SelphLogging
4 Point


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Humphreys Co., Tn

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Depends on what you call mass, not every deer is blessed with 5" bases. Ive killed a 6.5+, probably 7.5, that I had pics for 2 years in a row and he lost no mass due to old age, and he only had 4" bases. And 4" bases is common in 3yr olds.

If I could post pics, I have a 2 yr old with mass that would blow your mind for his age

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#3034146 - 11/15/12 08:55 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: String Music]
htnseymour
8 Point


Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 1521
Loc: sevier county Tn

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Ok now I want a tooth wear aging chart for my truck
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#3034158 - 11/15/12 08:58 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
SelphLogging
4 Point


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Humphreys Co., Tn

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Bsk, there was a (by the teeth) 3.5 killed not far from us in humphreys, that field dressed 200lbs. Had quit bigger head than my 6.5+ deer, and had a 7.5"+ eye to nose measurement. Most 3yr olds have 7"
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#3034169 - 11/15/12 09:01 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: htnseymour]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7870
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: htnseymour
Ok now I want a tooth wear aging chart for my truck
Print this field guide off on a color printer and keep it in your truck. You can go one step further and get the sheets laminated at a FedEx office location which will in turn make it waterproof/weatherproof.

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-deer_aging.pdf
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#3034177 - 11/15/12 09:05 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
SelphLogging
4 Point


Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 263
Loc: Humphreys Co., Tn

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I guess for me, I am running across more conflicting body details vs. tooth wear more and more. I see tons of bucks dead every year come through my buddy's processing/taxidermy shop each yr that conflict the two aging methods.

We have side bets on score and age all the time, and it gets comical sometimes

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#3034200 - 11/15/12 09:11 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: BSK]
String Music
8 Point


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 1684
Loc: Knoxville

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: deerhunter10
Imo he's 3.5 he doesn't seem to have the mass of a 4.5 or 5.5 deer we have killed 3.5 year olds before and field dressed over 200 pounds so can't just go off of body. He has a good good body but not much mass for me to say he is above 3.5. Imo


Are you talking antler mass? If so, never, never, never use antlers to judge age. Antlers will fool you more often than any other body feature. In any given location, each age-class of buck will grow such a wide range of antler sizes that there will be overlap between the largest-antlered yearling buck and the smallest-antlered mature buck. And that goes for every aspect of antler size, from beam length to number of points to mass to tine length to spread to gross score. The most accurate measure of age is body conformation, and of all the possible body conformations, neck size near the rut and chest depth in relation to front leg length are the two best age indicators.


Couldn't agree more
_________________________
"For I know the plans I have for you..." Jer. 29:11

Hunting Photography:

facebook.com/AMOutdoorPhotography

www.amcunninghamoutdoors.com


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#3034468 - 11/15/12 11:03 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: SelphLogging
Bsk, there was a (by the teeth) 3.5 killed not far from us in humphreys, that field dressed 200lbs. Had quit bigger head than my 6.5+ deer, and had a 7.5"+ eye to nose measurement. Most 3yr olds have 7"


My biggest buck, a 157" Humphreys County buck, has a head and lower jaw that is a full inch and a half shorter than a yearling spike I shot from the same property. The variation in any body measurement from deer to deer is going to vary as much as it does between people. Some people are 6+' tall. Others are less than 5'. I'm seeing Junoir High kids that are over 6' tall, yet adult men who have never broken 5'.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3034480 - 11/15/12 11:10 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...PICS ADDED [Re: SelphLogging]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65411
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: SelphLogging
I guess for me, I am running across more conflicting body details vs. tooth wear more and more. I see tons of bucks dead every year come through my buddy's processing/taxidermy shop each yr that conflict the two aging methods.


I don't doubt that at all. By definition, Nature is all about variation. It is what Natural Selection uses to adapt species to their environment. And through this process, the species that display the most variation between individuals is also the species that will adapt and survive the best. And I think we all understand just how adaptable whitetail deer are, considering they are doing spectacularly in every environment from the boreal arctic to the jungles of Central America.

I've been working on my field-judging skills for a very long time (since the subject first started being talked about among biologists). However, my field-judged ages only match the toothwear age around 80% of the time. Basically, I'm only getting 4 out of 5 "right." And I put the word "right" in quotes because field-judging isn't about knowing a deer's exact age. It is about finding body characteristics that will match the toothwear-estimated age.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#3100203 - 12/29/12 02:51 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: BlountArrow]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2586
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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We've (my brother and I) been managing our little farm for about 7 years now. I probably didn't see a mature buck on film until about 3 years ago. We've since had some wonderful things happening. A lot to do with our management practices and our neighbor who has about 3x the amount of property we do and shares the same philosophy on QDM. We have NEVER killed a deer off of this farm. We've NEVER seen much worth shooting, and right or wrong from a biological standpoint, the population for so many years was so poor (and still isn't great) that I couldn't justify killing anything. Finally starting in 2010 we starting seeing a mature buck or two. We still didn't hunt the property much at all.

Well finally this year I was able to target this buck I had on film, was fairly confident he was mature after talking with several folks on here and I was blessed on Balck Friday (approx 7:30am, day after Thanksgiving) with this nice mature 8 pointe). I'll try to keep it short but he was with a doe and much to my amazement he allowed this doe to walk at least 400 yards before he ever showed himself. Talk about a smart buck I didn't even know he was there until I watched the doe march 400 yards, from a creek bottom across the field and then she got right to the woodline and stopped and looked back and she waited for him. Out he came, cool as a cucumber since she had already proved the area safe. I let him get within 75 yards of me, pulled the trigger, and he dropped like a sack of hammers, game over, no kicking, no nothing. I would have never thought he or any buck would let a doe walk that far off before following in toe behind her, but he sure did.

I learned something that day. I remember thinking if I had been on an either sex hunt I would have probably convinced myself that she was alone after watching her for a literal 15 minutes walk over 400 yards "alone" and I would have probably shot her and the whole story would be different.

I love to see the fruits of our labor, the blood, the sweat, the drain on the checking account, finally start to payoff!! Keeping in mind where the buck was killed I dare say he ain't too shabby for an East TN Mountain/Foothills buck in my humble opinion.







_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#3100249 - 12/29/12 03:32 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: BlountArrow]
lpo1981
6 Point


Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 609
Loc: Dickson, TN

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Nice buck and excellent story! QDM is great if everybody around you practices the same principles.
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#3100289 - 12/29/12 03:50 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: lpo1981]
Hollar Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 2229
Loc: TN

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Great job!
_________________________

Spend your time where you get the most return on it...

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#3100324 - 12/29/12 04:33 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: Hollar Hunter]
parkerxbowhunter
4 Point


Registered: 09/24/11
Posts: 382
Loc: humphreys county

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cool
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#3100350 - 12/29/12 05:04 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: parkerxbowhunter]
Tony USMC
8 Point


Registered: 02/16/10
Posts: 1116
Loc: Rockwood,TN USA

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Great buck!
_________________________
Aim small Miss small !!!

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#3100767 - 12/29/12 09:36 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: Tony USMC]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3184
Loc: Franklin County

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Congratulations on a big buck! I would have thought just like you did when seeing a doe walking that far across an open area. She has to be alone - but apparently not!
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#3101170 - 12/30/12 09:07 AM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: BlountArrow]
Buzzard Breath
8 Point


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 1645
Loc: East

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I was wondering if you were ever going to post that picture.

Congrats again on a nice buck.

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#3101437 - 12/30/12 01:07 PM Re: Mature buck or not?...UPDATE - Got him! [Re: Buzzard Breath]
utfan1
10 Point


Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 4087
Loc: cleveland,tn

Offline
congrats and thats a good ending to a great story.
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