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#3013362 - 11/02/12 09:16 PM condensation issues?
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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Ok ive read alot about not bringing your ML from truck to house (cold to warm) and it causes your barrel to sweat. Yet people have no concern when bringing loaded brass centerfire rounds from cold to warm, does brass not sweat as bad? Ive not had a problem through the years thank the good Lord, but just wandering?
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#3013376 - 11/02/12 09:38 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: Rockhound]
UTGrad
14 Point


Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 8851
Loc: Franklin, TN

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Good question and will wait for other replies

Last year I left my muzzleloader loaded but this year I'm going to push out the charge and sabot if I won't be hunting for a few days.

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#3013679 - 11/03/12 08:24 AM Re: condensation issues? [Re: UTGrad]
Rubberduck270
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2721
Loc: Lawrence Co.

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It sweats just as any other metal does. And if its sweatin on the outside its sweatin on the inside. I think one reason you dont hear about problems with it as much is because for a lot of us our guns gradually warm up in the truck on the ride home and transporting your gun in a case helps lessen the rate of temperature change which lessens and sometimes even eliminates condensation. Do we still need to be concerned about it? Yes.

Why does it affect loaded rounds less than muzzleloaders? I believe that goes back to the conversation in another thread about burn rates of loose powder versus pellets. In a rifle cartridge you are igniting loose powder. Its not packed against a breech plug. Also, in a cartridge its pretty much air tight. So the only air that can condensate is the air trapped inside the cartrige. Once the cartridge heats back up the air will reabsorb the moisture it lost when the condensation occured. Since theres no seal on the beech plug of a muzzleloader, air can flow in and out of the powder via the flash hole. Thus, more air and more condensation.
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Smokeless Muzzleloading: It ain't your Grampa's flintlock

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#3013695 - 11/03/12 08:38 AM Re: condensation issues? [Re: Rubberduck270]
ImThere
10 Point


Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 2818
Loc: Lewisburg, Tn

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I think it is because the powder is water soluble thats where the condensation comes in to play
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#3014294 - 11/03/12 05:40 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: ImThere]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 345
Loc: USA Indiana

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BP and its substitutes are very hydroscopic and absorb water like mad. Smokeless powder on the other hand is much less hydroscopic.I know this to be scienitific in fact and I have torture tested many smokeless powders in my smokeless Savages.Double based smokeless powders have been subjected to the freezer test where the loaded gun was completely frozen down and then left to thaw at room temperature. They have always fired.I have left them in the truck in double digit minus temps and brought into the house and repeated this process over the course of days,weeks and even 6 months and they still fired. Do not try this with BP and substitutes. Misfires,rust and welded in loads will result.
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#3014395 - 11/03/12 06:54 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: Tar12]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
12 Point


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5281
Loc: Wilson County, TN

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Isn't blackhorn a nonhydoscopic powder?
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RollTide

John 3:16



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#3014482 - 11/03/12 07:50 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: REN]
trealtree
16 Point


Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 10817
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: REN
Isn't blackhorn a nonhydoscopic powder?


yes
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There is only 1 Absolute.

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#3014502 - 11/03/12 08:04 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: trealtree]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 345
Loc: USA Indiana

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Do not buy into Blackhorns claims. It can and will rust your barrel! You must clean like any other BP shooter.Several have learned the hard way.This is a report from a friend over on Dougs....

Call it coincidence, bad Carma, or just plane bad luck :-[ :-[ :'( as some one else just posted about this problem with BH209,
but I just returned back home from a quite good friends house depressed, greatly disappointed and with more than $200 gone from my checking account.

Got a call from my friend (at 7am) saying that his blued/walnut Encore 209x50 that he bought on my advice and then shot BH209 out of it again on my advice was rusted so bad it had to be seen to be believed.

I dropped what I was doing and went over to his house. Sure enough the rust in his Encore barrel was so bad you could see it by just looking at the end of the muzzle. I had the presence of mind to bring with me my entire gun cleaning/maintenance kit and gun smithing tools.

I removed the barrel and placed it in my portable vice and proceeded to give the barrel as cleaning that lasted over two and a half strait hours. I got the patches to come out about 95% still white and bore back to a mirror finish, but the pitting caused by the rust was so bad it was easily visible to the naked eye by simply holding the barrel up to the light and looking up it.

My friend never once even hinted that I was responsible, he simply wanted to see if there was anything I could do to fix it. Because it is so close to hunting season in IL, I felt i had no choice but to buy him another 209x50 barrel. He said he will not order it until we go shooting together tomorrow, but I told him to order it now because I am 99% certain the rust will return, and NSS might not be open when we return home tomorrow and he will need that barrel asap as he planed on using it during shotgun deer season.

For those wondering I did ask how long he let his Encore remain with a dirty bore having shot BH209 out of it, he said exactly 5 days in his basement that has a dehumidifier going 7/24 12 out of 24 hours a day and the Encore was stored in a fire proof Liberty gun safe with a large container of silicon desiccant also in the safe. He shot it on Tuesday of this week. I know he is telling the truth as he called me on Monday to ask if I wanted to go with him, but prior comitments would not allow this.

So I am now the not so proud owner of a severely pitted .50 caliber Encore barrel.

So I feel this proves beyond doubt that BH209 residue if left in your barrel WILL 100% RUST IT for certain.
Bottom line either treat BH209 like any other BP sub and clean your barrel ASAP, or risk ruining it.

Lastly is there any way I can salvage my new 209x50 barrel and remove the pitting? my gut is telling me quite strongly most likely NO!!.

I will write a letter to the makers of BH209 just to see what they will or will not do for me. After all it says on the bottle and on their pamphlet advertizing BH209 as being NON-CORROSIVE, when clearly beyond doubt it IS NOT and will RUST your barrel.

Ironic that the first and only (and hopefully last) firearm I have ever had to replace due to rust of any kind did not even belong to me.

If this costly mistake educates and prevents others from suffering the same fate, then I guess it is not a total loss.
It is really a GD shame as my friends Encore was real shooter.

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#3015276 - 11/04/12 12:09 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: Tar12]
REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
12 Point


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 5281
Loc: Wilson County, TN

Offline
I'm don't concerned with the cleaning part as I clean it if I shoot it period. I do like that it is not as temperate with moisture
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RollTide

John 3:16



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#3015299 - 11/04/12 12:36 PM Re: condensation issues? [Re: REN]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3480
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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The residue left after shooting will definently cause rust.

It will not absorb moisture though. I put 100 grains of it in a baby food jar and covered it with water. When the water evaporated completely I loaded it and shot it, it ignited perfectly. I did this when it first came out.

I also like the fact that while you still have to clean, the cleanup is so much easier. I have also never has a seized breech plug with BH209, and I don't even use grease or antiseize on my BH209 guns. With 777 or pyrodex I had to grease them and loosen them every 3 or 4 shots.

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