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#3012072 - 11/02/12 06:38 AM NJ union thugs turn help away
W C
10 Point


Registered: 02/02/02
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Loc: Alabama

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Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery
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Obama gets to have it both ways. He claims black from his father and American from his mother. Claiming to be a white Kenyan wouldn't get him very far though would it?

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#3012113 - 11/02/12 07:01 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
BMan
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Hey, the unions are just fighting for the middle class.

You know, the middle class sitting in NJ without power, water, heat, etc.

Thank goodness the unions are looking out for them! /sarc
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#3012225 - 11/02/12 07:57 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
Wildcat
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Not to worry, everythi9ng is fine up there. Ever the Mayor of New York City is going to use large generators to run the NYC Marathon Sunday. no mater that those same generators could help get gas stations open and more people in the area get gas.

The people will be better helped to have the marathon run on time than it will be to get the city back to normal.
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Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3012306 - 11/02/12 08:41 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
JLeòdhas
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Registered: 09/13/12
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Never liked yankees any way.
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#3012317 - 11/02/12 08:45 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: JLeòdhas]
Pic IN the Casa
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The same thing would happen if we had a 55gal aquarium full of rats and started pouring buckets of water on them.
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#3012355 - 11/02/12 09:10 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Pic IN the Casa]
TOW
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Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 4238
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They aren't going to give up those big overtime checks .
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#3012983 - 11/02/12 04:09 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
farmin68
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Registered: 11/08/03
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Loc: In a tree clinging to my guns ...

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 Originally Posted By: W C
Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery


There is no end to the stupidity of those in the unions and the Dem party.
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#3013070 - 11/02/12 05:29 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: farmin68]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
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Registered: 10/07/08
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 Originally Posted By: farmin68
 Originally Posted By: W C
Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery


There is no end to the stupidity of those in the unions and the Dem party.



x2
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#3013186 - 11/02/12 07:15 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
Big Ben
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 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
Not to worry, everythi9ng is fine up there. Ever the Mayor of New York City is going to use large generators to run the NYC Marathon Sunday. no mater that those same generators could help get gas stations open and more people in the area get gas.

The people will be better helped to have the marathon run on time than it will be to get the city back to normal.


They canceled the Marathon.
http://msn.foxsports.com/home/story/new-...2?ocid=ansfox11
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#3013259 - 11/02/12 08:11 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Big Ben]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
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 Originally Posted By: Big Ben
 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
Not to worry, everythi9ng is fine up there. Ever the Mayor of New York City is going to use large generators to run the NYC Marathon Sunday. no mater that those same generators could help get gas stations open and more people in the area get gas.

The people will be better helped to have the marathon run on time than it will be to get the city back to normal.


They canceled the Marathon.
http://msn.foxsports.com/home/story/new-...2?ocid=ansfox11


Yes, AFTER pressure from the people.

Look at what TIME I made my first post.

This morning ALL the reports were that they were going to hold the marathon but AFTER all the people complained about it they changed their mind.
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Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3013341 - 11/02/12 08:59 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
Big Ben
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AFTER...TIME....ALL....AFTER... \:D Thats what the edit button is for. But don't let a good rant go to waste.
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Some people should thank their lucky stars that everything I wish for does not come true

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#3013345 - 11/02/12 09:03 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Big Ben]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
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 Originally Posted By: Big Ben
AFTER...TIME....ALL....AFTER... \:D Thats what the edit button is for. But don't let a good rant go to waste.


You must be drunk tonight and probably will be for the next week when Obama loses.

LOL!!!!
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3013585 - 11/03/12 07:05 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
Big Ben
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: North of Nashville across the ...

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 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
 Originally Posted By: Big Ben
AFTER...TIME....ALL....AFTER... \:D Thats what the edit button is for. But don't let a good rant go to waste.


You must be drunk tonight and probably will be for the next week when Obama loses.

LOL!!!!


Guess you haven't been paying attention again. I am going to write in my cat Frank for President...Vote for the ammendment to the state consitution for hunting/fishing as a right. And vote for my neighbor for state rep..who BTW is a R. The D he is running against has been in office 16 years, not a bad guy but time to give someone else a chance. Rest is unapposed or I will just pass on. Here I go messing up the total vote count again. And since I don't drink but maybe 3 or 4 beers a year, I will be safe to come drive you home \:\) And congrats on the first post I have seen you make without all the cap's.
_________________________
Some people should thank their lucky stars that everything I wish for does not come true

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#3013766 - 11/03/12 09:20 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
griz104
4 Point


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 147
Loc: Nashville

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 Originally Posted By: W C
Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery

The above story should have started with Once Upon A Time..
I know that you guys have been drinking from the same scum pond that Ole Mitty is drinking from and would love to think that the above story is the truth..But those that do not drink from that same pond know the truth..Although i am sure all the know it alls will think otherwise..For the light shines on them!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/who-is-t...heir-statement/


Edited by griz104 (11/03/12 09:24 AM)

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#3013929 - 11/03/12 11:06 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: griz104]
W C
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Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 2542
Loc: Alabama

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Thanks for clearing that up grizz..........your link 100% confirms my post that opened this thread. Be sure to read all the way down........



Shortly before 3pm ET, Governor Christie’s office gives us an official statement on this issue:

“We are welcoming whatever help comes in, union or non-union, to assist with the recovery.”
The governor’s official statement, while helpful going forward, doesn’t exactly address what may have happened in the past.

In the meantime, the Newark Star Ledger is reporting that NJ unions are not blocking the workers:

“We take crews as they become available,” said Ron Morano, a spokesman for Jersey Central Power & Light. “Everyone understands this is an all-hands-on-deck event.” He(Morano) said crews from throughout the nation were now working in JCP&L’s service area, including from California, Idaho, Kentucky, Florida, Michigan and North Carolina.
The Alabama utility company seems to contradict that statement. From the Decatur Utilities press release on the issue:

Decatur Utilities sent a 6-man crew to the Northeast Wednesday, October 31st, bound for Seaside Heights, NJ, to assist with power restoration. Communications with Seaside Heights was poor due to lack of cell phone service in the area. Upon arriving at a staging area in Virginia, crews were held in place pending clarification of documents received from IBEW that implied a requirement of our employees to agree to union affiliation while working in the New York and New Jersey areas. It was and remains our understanding that agreeing to those requirements was a condition of being allowed to work in those areas.
Further investigation into the story first carried by WAFF TV in Alabama has confirmed what the press release states.

Is it possible that the Decatur Utilities crew was turned away for not joining the IBEW? Yes. And there are many people involved who are saying that’s exactly what happened.

Additionally, last night on Fox Business, Ray Hardin, the general manager of Decatur Utilities explained the issue to Stuart Varney. Stating that the company’s crews were in a staging area in Virginia when the IBEW sent documents requiring union membership before they could do any work. The company would not agree to unionizing their employees at this time and told their employees to return home to Alabama.
_________________________
Obama gets to have it both ways. He claims black from his father and American from his mother. Claiming to be a white Kenyan wouldn't get him very far though would it?

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#3013935 - 11/03/12 11:12 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
Inkstainz
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Registered: 08/23/12
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Look I'm in a union here in Memphis. Most of the guys that I know here would have let the crew go up there to work. Problem is that New Jersey and New York unlike Tennessee is NOT a right to work state. Basically they don't have to let you do anything if you don't abide by what they want you to. Well it will probably come back and bite them in the butt. However all you guys that are anti-union should realize that if it wasn't for the unions, you would have no lunch breaks or other breaks and work weeks would not be 40 hours. Maybe a history lesson is in order before you bash them.
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#3013950 - 11/03/12 11:26 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: griz104]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: griz104
 Originally Posted By: W C
Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery

The above story should have started with Once Upon A Time..
I know that you guys have been drinking from the same scum pond that Ole Mitty is drinking from and would love to think that the above story is the truth..But those that do not drink from that same pond know the truth..Although i am sure all the know it alls will think otherwise..For the light shines on them!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/who-is-t...heir-statement/

Except that story does nothing to dispel the original story. Christie can say "we'll take everyone" all he wants, but the fact of the matter is, someone lower on the food chain makes the decisions. And apparently they turned them down.

Now that they've been exposed, is it any wonder the union leaders royalty are circling the wagons and trying to save face?

I'll trust one Alabaman over 100 New Jersey union thugs any day of the week.
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#3014011 - 11/03/12 01:04 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
citico_tim
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Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 4563
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I believe the story and what makes it sad is that it is believable.

Having said that, I will also say that earlier this week I passed through a small tn town and saw utility trucks pulling out and I knew where they were going. I was thankful and proud of those guys.
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#3014057 - 11/03/12 01:49 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: griz104]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
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Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 15132
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: griz104
 Originally Posted By: W C
Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery

The above story should have started with Once Upon A Time..
I know that you guys have been drinking from the same scum pond that Ole Mitty is drinking from and would love to think that the above story is the truth..But those that do not drink from that same pond know the truth..Although i am sure all the know it alls will think otherwise..For the light shines on them!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/who-is-t...heir-statement/



I guess the member on here that saw the convoy of utility truck headed back to Alabama was seeing things too....
_________________________
But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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#3014071 - 11/03/12 01:55 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Grizzly Johnson]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
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More "Liars"

http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/02/theres...-to-join-union/
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--Voltaire

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#3014103 - 11/03/12 02:25 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: griz104]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42026
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: griz104
 Originally Posted By: W C
Yet another reason I loathe unions wherever they exist. Crews from Alabama utilities turned away in NJ because they're non union. Let 'em go without power for weeks on end. The people in the region deserve what they get out of this stupidity.

http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery

The above story should have started with Once Upon A Time..
I know that you guys have been drinking from the same scum pond that Ole Mitty is drinking from and would love to think that the above story is the truth..But those that do not drink from that same pond know the truth..Although i am sure all the know it alls will think otherwise..For the light shines on them!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/who-is-t...heir-statement/



Re-read the story again.

What you posted says it WAS TRUE,

What it says is "the information given to the Alabama workers over the phone was not true". So someone LIED to the Alabama workers. Sounds like a uniomn member.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie addressed the Alabama utility controversy during his afternoon press conference on Friday.

In short, he says the Alabama workers were on their way to New Jersey and called someone (it’s unknown who) while in Virginia. That’s when they were told they couldn’t help if they were non-union. Christie says they were given “bad information,” and such a requirement does not exist. He also said he’s talked with all the power companies involved and assured the public that if such a requirement was in place, he would exercise his power as governor to override it.

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Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3014673 - 11/03/12 09:03 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
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Let me get this straight liBeRals, this thread isn't true and Benghazi was because of an anti-muzzy youtube video.

Got it.
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#3014768 - 11/03/12 10:12 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
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"There is no spoon"

The Matrix
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--Voltaire

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#3015509 - 11/04/12 04:01 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Inkstainz]
farmin68
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Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 13400
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 Originally Posted By: Inkstainz
all you guys that are anti-union should realize that if it wasn't for the unions, you would have no lunch breaks or other breaks and work weeks would not be 40 hours. Maybe a history lesson is in order before you bash them.


What a load of B.S. Even slaves had lunch and water breaks. Your YOONyun has succeeded with the propaganda they have been feeding you.
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#3015517 - 11/04/12 04:06 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
farmin68
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Registered: 11/08/03
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 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104

I'm also in a union and if we didn't have It we would be working for minimum wage.
I have worked union as well as non union and a union only keeps the hiring,firing,wages and overall general treatment of employees fair.



Bull! You would be working for a wage that rewards you for your skills and what you can offer your employer or, if you are self-employed, the value you offer in the product or service you produce and provide.

As for fair, that is a weather condition.
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#3015547 - 11/04/12 04:26 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: farmin68]
Big Ben
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Registered: 03/08/06
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Let's see...A non-union company from Alabama don't want their workers to join a union while out of state on a job. There is such a thing as temp membership in some places FWIW. All one has to do is pay dues while on that job then withdraw when the job is over. My guess they are afraid those workers would like working under union rules and working conditions and return to Alabama and want to keep those rules and working conditions once back home. So they recall their workers or threaten dismissal if they do join.
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#3015569 - 11/04/12 04:41 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: farmin68]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
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I have worked both union and non-union over the years and I am currently working union as a Teamster.I have seen people fired in a non union shop just because someone did not like somebody..that is BS. I have seen people hired in and make more money than someone who is equally skilled because he is dating the owners daughter..more BS. It is a historical fact that the wages are driven down in right to work states. Who does this benefit? The employers only is who.How can you argue against a better life and better wages,health care,benefits, and working conditions? Excuse me if I do not understand your logic on this...please explain.....
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#3015674 - 11/04/12 06:03 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: farmin68]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
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Registered: 10/07/08
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 Originally Posted By: Inkstainz
all you guys that are anti-union should realize that if it wasn't for the unions, you would have no lunch breaks or other breaks and work weeks would not be 40 hours. Maybe a history lesson is in order before you bash them.



I'm pretty sure the Dept. of Labor handles that.... not the union.
_________________________
But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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#3015728 - 11/04/12 06:31 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Big Ben]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
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 Originally Posted By: Big Ben
Let's see...A non-union company from Alabama don't want their workers to join a union while out of state on a job. There is such a thing as temp membership in some places FWIW. All one has to do is pay dues while on that job then withdraw when the job is over. My guess they are afraid those workers would like working under union rules and working conditions and return to Alabama and want to keep those rules and working conditions once back home. So they recall their workers or threaten dismissal if they do join.


You don't know it but you just posted what is WRONG with unions.

They went up there for a Emergency Disaster !!!! They went up there to HELP OUT. But by what YOU posted the unions said NO, they HAVE to join the union to help them out.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3015855 - 11/04/12 07:25 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
griz104
4 Point


Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 147
Loc: Nashville

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It was the same exact way when the Trade Towers went down..Only Union workers were allowed on site..And will be more then willing to bet the next one will be Union only also..Guess that is why the Unions are hated so much.. They know what Brotherhood is about and will stand together..Maybe a few could learn a lesson from them!
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#3016061 - 11/04/12 09:01 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
redblood
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Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 14549
Loc: Lewisburg

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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
"...Maybe a few could learn a lesson from them!"

I doubt it.


let me guess, you are union guy.
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#3016075 - 11/04/12 09:07 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
16 Point


Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 15132
Loc: Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
Yup, They took care of it. In a Union you have a contract agreement and it spells out breaks and other things. I know that management and salaried employees appreciate that they have a "contract" signed when they are employed so why all the Hatin' when Union employees do it.

Maybe they hate that "collective" part Eh?

"United We Stand Divided We Fall"


Yea, I have seen how unions work where I work..... pathetic....

Some things can be done by a "regular" guy and should not be worried about by a "union" guy.... So much BS to go through to get a dang phone line or network cable unplugged from one wall outlet and moved to another... it's just plum STUPID!!!


I wouldn't expect to get paid for "lunch" breaks.... I haven't been compensated for as many years as I have been working as far as I know....


You shouldn't need a union to dictate your job.... your skills, work ethic, attitude, and person should secure your own employment.

That money going for dues, well that could just as easily go towards my own bills/debts....
_________________________
But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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#3016090 - 11/04/12 09:14 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
DOL:

Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks. However, when employers do offer short breaks (usually lasting about 5 to 20 minutes), federal law considers the breaks as compensable work hours that would be included in the sum of hours worked during the work week and considered in determining if overtime was worked. Unauthorized extensions of authorized work breaks need not be counted as hours worked when the employer has expressly and unambiguously communicated to the employee that the authorized break may only last for a specific length of time, that any extension of the break is contrary to the employer's rules, and any extension of the break will be punished.

Bona fide meal periods (typically lasting at least 30 minutes), serve a different purpose than coffee or snack breaks and, thus, are not work time and are not compensable.

Interesting that the union drone ignores the fact that states have volumes of laws regulating working hours, breaks, etc.
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Rules are for people who lose fights.

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#3016095 - 11/04/12 09:15 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Tar12]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: Tar12
I have worked both union and non-union over the years and I am currently working union as a Teamster.I have seen people fired in a non union shop just because someone did not like somebody..that is BS. I have seen people hired in and make more money than someone who is equally skilled because he is dating the owners daughter..more BS. It is a historical fact that the wages are driven down in right to work states. Who does this benefit? The employers only is who.How can you argue against a better life and better wages,health care,benefits, and working conditions? Excuse me if I do not understand your logic on this...please explain.....

Maybe you can explain the "fairness" in the dead weight getting paid more than the harder workers who don't have seniority.

THAT's BS. And that's why unions are destructive. They protect the unworthy at the expense of the worthy.

And there's no way you can spin that.
_________________________
Rules are for people who lose fights.

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#3016253 - 11/05/12 01:39 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: watertown ,TN

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 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tar12
I have worked both union and non-union over the years and I am currently working union as a Teamster.I have seen people fired in a non union shop just because someone did not like somebody..that is BS. I have seen people hired in and make more money than someone who is equally skilled because he is dating the owners daughter..more BS. It is a historical fact that the wages are driven down in right to work states. Who does this benefit? The employers only is who.How can you argue against a better life and better wages,health care,benefits, and working conditions? Excuse me if I do not understand your logic on this...please explain.....

Maybe you can explain the "fairness" in the dead weight getting paid more than the harder workers who don't have seniority.

THAT's BS. And that's why unions are destructive. They protect the unworthy at the expense of the worthy.

And there's no way you can spin that.

Actually non union promotes this even more than a union. Buddy system works in non union whereas it doesn't in a union shop. Is it right that in a non union that your best friend/family member is boss and let's you get away with murder while putting more of a work load on others and giving them no option but to do it or be fired?? Wal mart is a prime example, for those who know or have family that work there know exactly what I mean. They would greatly benefit from a union as they are treated like dirt. A union is nothing more than q system of checks and balances. You do your job and I do mine,if you can't then you and only you suffer the consequence. Non union will place the burden on other employees without hesitation especially if its their buddy getting out of the work !!
It's amazing how many here don't have a clue what a union does or how the.business of a union is conducted yet they preach against them. O was gonna JUst withdraw from this conversation but the fighting side of me can't JUst sit back and read all the ignorance spewed over this topic.
The best thing any of you can do if you have never worked in,around or with a union is quit advertising your stupidity and stick with whatever it is you "think" you do best because JUst by reading this thread there are only a couple who even have the slightest idea as to how a union works.

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#3016254 - 11/05/12 02:15 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
TITANSFAN2104
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Registered: 05/19/11
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 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tar12
I have worked both union and non-union over the years and I am currently working union as a Teamster.I have seen people fired in a non union shop just because someone did not like somebody..that is BS. I have seen people hired in and make more money than someone who is equally skilled because he is dating the owners daughter..more BS. It is a historical fact that the wages are driven down in right to work states. Who does this benefit? The employers only is who.How can you argue against a better life and better wages,health care,benefits, and working conditions? Excuse me if I do not understand your logic on this...please explain.....

Maybe you can explain the "fairness" in the dead weight getting paid more than the harder workers who don't have seniority.

THAT's BS. And that's why unions are destructive. They protect the unworthy at the expense of the worthy.

And there's no way you can spin that.

Actually non union promotes this even more than a union. Buddy system works in non union whereas it doesn't in a union shop. Is it right that in a non union that your best friend/family member is boss and let's you get away with murder while putting more of a work load on others and giving them no option but to do it or be fired?? Wal mart is a prime example, for those who know or have family that work there know exactly what I mean. They would greatly benefit from a union as they are treated like dirt. A union is nothing more than q system of checks and balances. You do your job and I do mine,if you can't then you and only you suffer the consequence. Non union will place the burden on other employees without hesitation especially if its their buddy getting out of the work !!
It's amazing how many here don't have a clue what a union does or how the.business of a union is conducted yet they preach against them. O was gonna JUst withdraw from this conversation but the fighting side of me can't JUst sit back and read all the ignorance spewed over this topic.
The best thing any of you can do if you have never worked in,around or with a union is quit advertising your stupidity and stick with whatever it is you "think" you do best because JUst by reading this thread there are only a couple who even have the slightest idea as to how a union works.

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#3016282 - 11/05/12 05:09 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
Tar12
4 Point


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Posts: 345
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 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tar12
I have worked both union and non-union over the years and I am currently working union as a Teamster.I have seen people fired in a non union shop just because someone did not like somebody..that is BS. I have seen people hired in and make more money than someone who is equally skilled because he is dating the owners daughter..more BS. It is a historical fact that the wages are driven down in right to work states. Who does this benefit? The employers only is who.How can you argue against a better life and better wages,health care,benefits, and working conditions? Excuse me if I do not understand your logic on this...please explain.....

Maybe you can explain the "fairness" in the dead weight getting paid more than the harder workers who don't have seniority.

THAT's BS. And that's why unions are destructive. They protect the unworthy at the expense of the worthy.

And there's no way you can spin that.

What union shop was is it that you worked at that allows dead weight to stay on? I do not know about other union shops but if you do not perform your duties where I work you are GONE PERIOD!The only dead weight we have is in our non-union management!They can screw up day after day(and they do)and they keep their jobs be damned! No spin here just facts...

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#3016313 - 11/05/12 05:46 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Tar12]
BMan
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 Originally Posted By: Tar12
What union shop was is it that you worked at that allows dead weight to stay on? I do not know about other union shops but if you do not perform your duties where I work you are GONE PERIOD!

Priceless! Delusional, but priceless nonetheless.

I'll give you just one example of first-hand experience with the dead weight effect. First job out of HS, union shop at a manufacturing plant. "Rate" was 33 runs per 8 hours. While I was still TRAINING I was turning out over 40 runs/8 hours with fewer rejects than the "experienced" old timers.

Our shift - 3rd shift, all new guys who didn't understand that unions stood for doing as little as possible and holding the company hostage - started running 45+ consistently and were threatened by the other two shifts.

What were you saying about dead weight?
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#3016314 - 11/05/12 05:50 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
BMan
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Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
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 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
Actually non union promotes this even more than a union. Buddy system works in non union whereas it doesn't in a union shop.

Do you really believe that? If so, you need a good dose of reality.

Inequity exists everywhere - and unions are just as bad as non-union. Ever throw for a job and the guy who gets it was less worthy than you? Happens every day, doesn't it - but that's too inconvenient for you union drones to admit.

Stupidity is blindly supporting a union who is supposed to make things better, but only lines the pockets of those at the top while they screw the members and the employer. Time for you to put on your big boy undies and accept a few realities of life.
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#3016340 - 11/05/12 06:26 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Tar12]
W C
10 Point


Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 2542
Loc: Alabama

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 Originally Posted By: Tar12
What union shop was is it that you worked at that allows dead weight to stay on?


IBEW 558 at TVA Muscle Shoals, AL. It always has and always will.
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#3016379 - 11/05/12 06:43 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: watertown ,TN

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 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
Actually non union promotes this even more than a union. Buddy system works in non union whereas it doesn't in a union shop.

Do you really believe that? If so, you need a good dose of reality.

Inequity exists everywhere - and unions are just as bad as non-union. Ever throw for a job and the guy who gets it was less worthy than you? Happens every day, doesn't it - but that's too inconvenient for you union drones to admit.

Stupidity is blindly supporting a union who is supposed to make things better, but only lines the pockets of those at the top while they screw the members and the employer. Time for you to put on your big boy undies and accept a few realities of life.

... Seriously...stupidity is defined by your above comment. Like I said the union does make things better where I'm at. JUst look at what you said, the stuff you describe is more rampant in a non union plant. Usually the one that is less worthy always gets the job in a non union simply because of the buddy system whereas if it is a contracted union job ,it goes to the person with the most seniority. What's not right about that ?? You do know a union contract is set forth by the employer and agreed upon by both parties?? So how is the employer getting screwed other than being held accountable for their part of the bargaining agreement ??

.....and have a inferiority complex because you can't make a grown man/woman scared for their job?? I see that all the time and its a humbling experience for bosses to walk through the door thinking they are god then to realize it doesn't work that way. Talk to us as people and not looking down on your employees will get you somewhere. And some people like you can't stand to be thought of as on the same level as someone else. Hope you don't with pro sports cause every one of those guys are union but I guess they don't deserve the money they make as well??

.......You need to open your eyes and do more homework or maybe talk face to face with union members and the way it operates before you get on here making accusations and claiming that you know anything about a union. I could sit here and argue on the internet all day but i don't have time to drive any common sense into your thick skull seeing as that would probably be impossible given your lack of reason or ability to even come with a response that has any legitimate reasoning.


Edited by Crappie Luck (11/05/12 06:53 AM)
Edit Reason: cussing and personal attacks

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#3016388 - 11/05/12 06:47 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
redblood
16 Point


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the concepts of a union does not fit witghin the guidelines of a free enterprise system. never has, never will. it turns 10 dollar an hour workers (based on education and skill) into 30.00 an hour workers that the companies (or now tax payers) are forced to pay. they must go. come on romney!
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#3016389 - 11/05/12 06:47 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
Wildcat
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A union is a "buddy system." No way around that, that's why they call it "brotherhood".
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#3016395 - 11/05/12 06:49 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
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 Originally Posted By: W C
 Originally Posted By: Tar12
What union shop was is it that you worked at that allows dead weight to stay on?


IBEW 558 at TVA Muscle Shoals, AL. It always has and always will.
unfortunately you do have some of that but I can promise you there are ways of relieving that dead weight if your bosses wanted to. We have dead weight in our facilities as well but as I said earlier , if they ain't doing there job there are more than one way to process and get something done. If that not he case then it sounds like the employer wasnt smart enough to have an escalation process for disciplinary processes. What was your job title at IBEW 558 ??

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#3016410 - 11/05/12 06:54 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
TITANSFAN2104
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Registered: 05/19/11
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[quote=Wildcat]A union is a "buddy system." No way around that, that's why they call it "brotherhood". [/quote
And my question is... How is a non union not more beneficial of the buddy system. Come on guys show that you have somewhat of an education. A lot these comments have no foundation other than its something you have heard or read. Saying a union is a buddy system is again..ignorant. it doesn't matter who your buddies with, you get a job based on your seniority alone and what you make is set forth and agreed upon by BOTH parties. So because the union makes the company good to their side of the contract they are the bad guys all of a sudden.

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#3016432 - 11/05/12 07:01 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Parents of kidnapped children pay huge ransom amounts. Obviously both parties agree on the amount so why are the kidnappers made out to always be the bad guys?
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3016449 - 11/05/12 07:08 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: redblood]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: watertown ,TN

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 Originally Posted By: redblood
the concepts of a union does not fit witghin the guidelines of a free enterprise system. never has, never will. it turns 10 dollar an hour workers (based on education and skill) into 30.00 an hour workers that the companies (or now tax payers) are forced to pay. they must go. come on romney!
really??? Because a union is what set forth all your current day labor guidelines ,rules and regulations. All these non union plants benefited from earlier generations of unions setting forth the ground work for current labor laws. I wish I had the time to show you the numbers on pay, employees and how it relates to real numbers. Because your statement above is completely false with no substance to confirm support it. Prime example , I make $19 an hour as a cnc machine operator that loads/unload over 200 40# parts a night, under current contract new hires make $11.55 an hour starting out. We have the highest turnover rate of 50% than we have had in the 52 years its been in operation. People used to quit their jobs to come to work there and now they quit when they get on. My point being it has a little to do with skill/education but at some point you have to figure in the physical side as well as the fact we work 7 days a week twelve hours a day. So basically we spend our lives in that place. Then people like you think the company should be able to take what they want from us , cut our pay or fire us for no good reason when you have a back go out from living all that weight.
I would love to have you work with me for two weeks and see off you felt the same way after. I would bet a paycheck if you told the truth I could change your tune.

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#3016460 - 11/05/12 07:13 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Crappie Luck]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
Parents of kidnapped children pay huge ransom amounts. Obviously both parties agree on the amount so why are the kidnappers made out to always be the bad guys?


That is a completely ignorant comparison. Doesn't have any relation to what we are talking about , as the company can hire who they want and can pack up and ship out if they want. Come up with something better than that.
As far as that goes what about you and your banker or your contract with Verizon on your cell phone?? You go into it knowing what your supposed to get and that contract prevents Verizon from deciding to charge you double that month. The same principle the union serves is to uphold and press the company to uphold their end of the bargain.

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#3016467 - 11/05/12 07:18 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Unions in public sector jobs such as teachers, city workers, some utility workers, postal workers, etc are bargaining with some one else's money. Many times it's a Union or politically like minded individuals on both sides of the table.

Your constant use of the word "Ignorant" and "Stupid" when addressing someone who disagrees with your union defense tells me that you are scared to death of non-union workers and the threat of you being evaluated by job performance rather that how long you've managed to stay on the job and not been fired.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3016479 - 11/05/12 07:28 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Crappie Luck]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
Unions in public sector jobs such as teachers, city workers, some utility workers, postal workers, etc are bargaining with some one else's money. Many times it's a Union or politically like minded individuals on both sides of the table.

Your constant use of the word "Ignorant" and "Stupid" when addressing someone who disagrees with your union defense tells me that you are scared to death of non-union workers and the threat of you being evaluated by job performance rather that how long you've managed to stay on the job and not been fired.

Actually you are so far from the truth its pathetic. You are from smith county so I'm sure you know the place I work which is TRW in Lebanon. I'm not using those words to address the person in general but their comments on a subject they are blind to . The same as goes for YOU. I'm not at all scared for my job from non union workers as they hire people every day that don't last a couple weeks. And as far as work goes I know my job and I'm dang good at it and would be willing to put my job record as well as performance record on the line and would love for you talk to any boss I have had in the last 14 years and they would contradict your factless based OPINION

.


Edited by TITANSFAN2104 (11/05/12 07:37 AM)

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#3016491 - 11/05/12 07:32 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Crappie Luck]
Fence Post
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/19/99
Posts: 3012
Loc: Bluff City,Tn. USA

content Online
As to the comment concerning "stupid and ignorant" replies to this thread. Most of us here have experience on both sides of the labor issue and have chosen to educated ourselves into skills independence.You will do well to begin the process before it is too late.
_________________________
Time to take a stand.
If it makes you a criminal,it's their fault.
If you are a victim,it's your fault.......

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#3016492 - 11/05/12 07:33 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
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 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
[quote=Wildcat]A union is a "buddy system." No way around that, that's why they call it "brotherhood". [/quote
And my question is... How is a non union not more beneficial of the buddy system. Come on guys show that you have somewhat of an education. A lot these comments have no foundation other than its something you have heard or read. Saying a union is a buddy system is again..ignorant. it doesn't matter who your buddies with, you get a job based on your seniority alone and what you make is set forth and agreed upon by BOTH parties. So because the union makes the company good to their side of the contract they are the bad guys all of a sudden.


Sorry bud but YOUR the ignorant one. First off all you use in all YOUR posts are "stupid and ignorant", that shows YOU have NOTHING but name calling. If it had not been for YOUR "buddys in the union" you would have to work in a real job where YOUR work counted.

To you guys the company, the business and the mangers are your ENEMIES.the very company that YOU work for and the very copmpany that gives YOU YOUR paycheck is your enemy. Just go over YOUR last 6 posts and they PROVES what I said it the TRUTH. Anybody want to see more proof?? Simply go to the union web sites and read what they say.

Guys, I'm on my way out the door to close on another house so post up some union web sites if you have to.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#3016497 - 11/05/12 07:36 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Fence Post]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: watertown ,TN

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 Originally Posted By: Fence Post
As to the comment concerning "stupid and ignorant" replies to this thread. Most of us here have experience on both sides of the labor issue and have chosen to educated ourselves into skills independence.You will do well to begin the process before it is too late.

Ok, what's your experience and which union did you deal with ??

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#3016509 - 11/05/12 07:45 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Wildcat]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
Loc: watertown ,TN

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 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
[quote=Wildcat]A union is a "buddy system." No way around that, that's why they call it "brotherhood". [/quote
And my question is... How is a non union not more beneficial of the buddy system. Come on guys show that you have somewhat of an education. A lot these comments have no foundation other than its something you have heard or read. Saying a union is a buddy system is again..ignorant. it doesn't matter who your buddies with, you get a job based on your seniority alone and what you make is set forth and agreed upon by BOTH parties. So because the union makes the company good to their side of the contract they are the bad guys all of a sudden.


Sorry bud but YOUR the ignorant one. First off all yuou use in all YOUR posts are "stupid and ignorant", that shows YOU have NOTHING but name calling. If it had not been for YOUR "buddys in the union" you would have to work in a real job where YOUR work counted.

To you guys the company, the business and the mangers are your ENEMIES.the very company that YOU work for and the very copmpany that gives YOU YOUR paycheck is your enemy. Just go over YOUR last 6 posts and they PROVES what I said it the TRUTH. Anybody want to see more proof?? Simply go to the union web sites and read what they say.


This ^^^ wow!!! A real job were my work counted.... Huh... Odd because I have been working twelve hours a day 13 out of every 14 days . Guess I need a real job. How many hours do you average a week because I average well over 60 and don't get a choice in the matter unless I quit, but hey is that really an option?? No.
Like said, JUst because you talked to management in a union facility or to other people doesn't mean your an expert because you have secondhand info. Like I said, I would love to work side by side with a lot of you. You might be surprised with the effort as well as the skill. JUst to be clear, I know their are some sorry people working right beside me that has the protection of the union, I'm not debating or arguing that but I had those same people working beside me in the non union plant.as well.
Until some of you actually work in a union or talk to some knowledgeable,neutral people then you will never know or understand. So I will JUst leave it at that

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#3016520 - 11/05/12 07:49 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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"Stupid and Ignorant" is getting a thread closed down for personal attacks.

Everyone take a step back and think before you type or this thread is GONE.
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--Voltaire

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#3016548 - 11/05/12 08:12 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Crappie Luck]
TITANSFAN2104
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 1027
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I apologize to everyone and for my poor choice of words in this thread and guess its better for me to stick to the classifieds.
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#3016551 - 11/05/12 08:16 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Crappie Luck]
Locksley
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Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19730
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Interesting , I think GOD we still have a country and jobs at all here with the economy as it is.
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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#3016573 - 11/05/12 08:28 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
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 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
I apologize to everyone and for my poor choice of words in this thread and guess its better for me to stick to the classifieds.


Thanks. But no one wants you to leave.
This is a forum open to all ideas and opinions. We're not supposed to all agree and you will not be "run oft" because of your opinion.

I do not support unions and I do not agree with their tactics or politics.

But I'll defend your right to be wrong and to do so openly \:D
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3016651 - 11/05/12 09:23 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
a retrohillbilly
6 Point


Registered: 09/16/09
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Well, the Titans are union! \:D
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#3016655 - 11/05/12 09:27 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: TITANSFAN2104]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: TITANSFAN2104
Actually non union promotes this even more than a union. Buddy system works in non union whereas it doesn't in a union shop.

Do you really believe that? If so, you need a good dose of reality.

Inequity exists everywhere - and unions are just as bad as non-union. Ever throw for a job and the guy who gets it was less worthy than you? Happens every day, doesn't it - but that's too inconvenient for you union drones to admit.

Stupidity is blindly supporting a union who is supposed to make things better, but only lines the pockets of those at the top while they screw the members and the employer. Time for you to put on your big boy undies and accept a few realities of life.

... Seriously...stupidity is defined by your above comment. Like I said the union does make things better where I'm at. JUst look at what you said, the stuff you describe is more rampant in a non union plant. Usually the one that is less worthy always gets the job in a non union simply because of the buddy system whereas if it is a contracted union job ,it goes to the person with the most seniority. What's not right about that ?? You do know a union contract is set forth by the employer and agreed upon by both parties?? So how is the employer getting screwed other than being held accountable for their part of the bargaining agreement ??

.....and have a inferiority complex because you can't make a grown man/woman scared for their job?? I see that all the time and its a humbling experience for bosses to walk through the door thinking they are god then to realize it doesn't work that way. Talk to us as people and not looking down on your employees will get you somewhere. And some people like you can't stand to be thought of as on the same level as someone else. Hope you don't with pro sports cause every one of those guys are union but I guess they don't deserve the money they make as well??

.......You need to open your eyes and do more homework or maybe talk face to face with union members and the way it operates before you get on here making accusations and claiming that you know anything about a union. I could sit here and argue on the internet all day but i don't have time to drive any common sense into your thick skull seeing as that would probably be impossible given your lack of reason or ability to even come with a response that has any legitimate reasoning.

You are out of touch with reality, that much is obvious.

I've worked with union members, both "in the ranks" and as staff. I cannot tell you one situation where the union was beneficial to the company; in fact, I can tell you of more than one instance where union idiocy resulted in shutdowns and increased unemployment. In fact, take a look around union-dominated industries and you'll notice that union membership continues to fall every year. If they're so great, why are they disappearing.

I talk face to face with union members on a daily basis and it's funny, when asked why the dead weight above them has priority over them, and makes more money, and keeps their jobs when layoffs occur... they all get this duuuuhhhhh... Gomer Pyle look because they have no answer other than "it protects all of us." The union should be protecting and promoting the WORTHY employees rather than punishing them so that the unworthy can keep their jobs and drag everyone down.

I find it sad that every comment you make is presented as an us-vs-them environment - that epitomizes the problems with unions. Rather than work together, you guys all have inferiority complexes about management. I attribute that to the fact that you have others get jobs for you, rather than taking responsibility for your own lives.

All unions do at this point is drive up cost, drive down innovation, and stagnate their industry and the economy as a whole. It's obvious to anyone who isn't viewing the world through their union blinders.
_________________________
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#3016776 - 11/05/12 10:58 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
Greg .
aPoStROpHe PolIcE
16 Point


Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 11122
Loc: NC Piedmonts

Offline

wHat a frIeNd
We haVe iN Y0o0oNyUns .....
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#3016856 - 11/05/12 12:09 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
Most companies I have been involved with use Union workers at some point. These are some of this state's largest employers and some are NON UNION as well. That alone goes against the thought that Unions just drive up cost.
The companies use Union because of their trades and because of their flexibility. This is a big plus for companies that want good work done and done on time. Not saying non Union can't compare on some levels but overall Unions must be doing something right if these big name companies are using them as much as they do.

That must explain why the steel and textile industries are doing so well in this country.

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, they've virtually shut down due to high union cost for low productivity.

HISTORY proves they drive up cost; all the spin on earth can't change that fact.
_________________________
Rules are for people who lose fights.

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#3016890 - 11/05/12 12:33 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: BMan]
preds1
12 Point


Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 6217
Loc: Sumner County

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BMan

That must explain why the steel and textile industries are doing so well in this country.

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, they've virtually shut down due to high union cost for low productivity.

HISTORY proves they drive up cost; all the spin on earth can't change that fact.


It also explains why there's no NHL season this year. \:\)
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#3017033 - 11/05/12 01:47 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
Most companies I have been involved with use Union workers at some point. These are some of this state's largest employers and some are NON UNION as well. That alone goes against the thought that Unions just drive up cost.
The companies use Union because of their trades and because of their flexibility. This is a big plus for companies that want good work done and done on time. Not saying non Union can't compare on some levels but overall Unions must be doing something right if these big name companies are using them as much as they do.

That must explain why the steel and textile industries are doing so well in this country.

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, they've virtually shut down due to high union cost for low productivity.

HISTORY proves they drive up cost; all the spin on earth can't change that fact.





There is much more to the decline of both the textile and steel industries than organized labor. It is very easy to say that Unions were the cause but if anyone did their homework on this subject they would find plenty of blame to go around from lack of innovative technological advancements to lackluster management practices and blind eyes to what the world was doing.
Homework skills are lacking.

Isn't that odd. The unions are always bashing businesses moving jobs overseas to save money; but you say that's not it.

You're right, your homework skills ARE lacking. May want to check in with the union steward and get the right talking points.

As I said before - and it is uncontestable FACT - HISTORY proves unions drive up cost. Bob and weave as you may, you can't change the truth.
_________________________
Rules are for people who lose fights.

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#3017363 - 11/05/12 04:58 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
dr
10 Point


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4237
Loc: USA

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
Most companies I have been involved with use Union workers at some point. These are some of this state's largest employers and some are NON UNION as well. That alone goes against the thought that Unions just drive up cost.
The companies use Union because of their trades and because of their flexibility. This is a big plus for companies that want good work done and done on time. Not saying non Union can't compare on some levels but overall Unions must be doing something right if these big name companies are using them as much as they do.

That must explain why the steel and textile industries are doing so well in this country.

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, they've virtually shut down due to high union cost for low productivity.

HISTORY proves they drive up cost; all the spin on earth can't change that fact.





There is much more to the decline of both the textile and steel industries than organized labor. It is very easy to say that Unions were the cause but if anyone did their homework on this subject they would find plenty of blame to go around from lack of innovative technological advancements to lackluster management practices and blind eyes to what the world was doing.
Homework skills are lacking.


No, comprehension skills are missing. Unions are a front for socialism, communism. You, and your dues are just the tools to accomplish their agenda. I've worked around unions for 25 years, and am not too blind to see what they stand for.
_________________________
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#3017406 - 11/05/12 05:24 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16034
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
Can one of you Pro-Union guys please explain to me how market recovery works and exactly why it is needed?

Thank you.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3017414 - 11/05/12 05:29 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
BMan
16 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 10432
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
 Originally Posted By: BMan
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
Most companies I have been involved with use Union workers at some point. These are some of this state's largest employers and some are NON UNION as well. That alone goes against the thought that Unions just drive up cost.
The companies use Union because of their trades and because of their flexibility. This is a big plus for companies that want good work done and done on time. Not saying non Union can't compare on some levels but overall Unions must be doing something right if these big name companies are using them as much as they do.

That must explain why the steel and textile industries are doing so well in this country.

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT, they've virtually shut down due to high union cost for low productivity.

HISTORY proves they drive up cost; all the spin on earth can't change that fact.





There is much more to the decline of both the textile and steel industries than organized labor. It is very easy to say that Unions were the cause but if anyone did their homework on this subject they would find plenty of blame to go around from lack of innovative technological advancements to lackluster management practices and blind eyes to what the world was doing.
Homework skills are lacking.

Isn't that odd. The unions are always bashing businesses moving jobs overseas to save money; but you say that's not it.

You're right, your homework skills ARE lacking. May want to check in with the union steward and get the right talking points.

As I said before - and it is uncontestable FACT - HISTORY proves unions drive up cost. Bob and weave as you may, you can't change the truth.





"..you can't change the truth."

I just did.

LOL. This from the guy who says Dick Morris is a conservative. Your above line now ranks as expose' #2.
_________________________
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#3017775 - 11/05/12 08:18 PM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 5590
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

shocked Online
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
Most companies I have been involved with use Union workers at some point. These are some of this state's largest employers and some are NON UNION as well. That alone goes against the thought that Unions just drive up cost.
The companies use Union because of their trades and because of their flexibility. This is a big plus for companies that want good work done and done on time. Not saying non Union can't compare on some levels but overall Unions must be doing something right if these big name companies are using them as much as they do.


Flexibility? What are you talking about? Unions are the most inflexible and inefficient work forces on earth. There are endless rules, restrictions, and stipulations when working with unions and I can assure you that none of them have to do with getting the job done efficiently. Work done on time with unions? Surely you jest. There are countless examples of exactly the opposite. Start with any public construction project and go from there.

Unions and union-friendly labor laws are crushing Europe economically. I know - I work for a global company with headquarters in France and we may not make it because our union contracts and the union-friendly European labor laws won't allow management to get our cost structure in line with the business. Don't believe me? Watch the news. Greece, Spain, Portugal, France, Italy - all in a economic death spirals due to public sector unions.

How may US airlines have gone into bankruptcy in large part because of their unsustainable union contracts? I've lost track. GM, Chrysler, Hostess (yes, the Twinkie company) the States of California and Illinois - all sent into bankruptcy or an economic abyss by their union contracts.

I work with several clients that have unionized work forces. They would get rid of the union tomorrow if they could. Likewise, my clients without non-union work forces will do anything they can to keep the unions out.

AT&T and Verizon just went to war with their unions. They must really love them. On a related note, let me tell you about the ridiculous experience I had when the AT&T union guy showed up to connect my phone service to my new house a few years ago. I ended up doing half the job myself because he wouldn't finish the job. He said I needed to call AT&T and request a second house call because he wasn't able to run the cable to my house AND also screw the wires to the connectors in the box because that would cost the union an extra job. I went to my garage and got a screwdriver and proceeded to connect the wires myself right in front of him. He told me to stop and I told him to get off my property. I have so many stories like this from working with unions in the telecommunications industry over the years. I have no use for today's unions. In my opinion, their motto ought to be "minimum work for maximum pay".

My next truck will be a Toyota Tundra built by non-union American workers in Texas (a right to work state).
_________________________
“The more I read and the more I listen, the more apparent it is that our society suffers from an alarming degree of public ignorance” - Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor

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#3018019 - 11/06/12 12:42 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: ]
Vermin93
12 Point


Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 5590
Loc: Dallas, TX & Signal Mtn, TN

shocked Online
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
"..I can assure you that none of them have to do with getting the job done efficiently"

Then what do you attribute their using Union workers? Surely you must know the reasoning behind some of why the companies chose Union to either build their assets or to staff them since you have an "assurance."


What are you talking about? These companies don't have a choice. These unions organized years ago and their existence is protected by labor laws and the NLRB. If the unions weren't protected these companies would dismiss them tomorrow. Walmart has been fighting for the past several years to keep outside unions from organizing Walmart workers. AT&T and Verizon would break their unions tomorrow if they could. No company says to their employees - "hey, why don't you unionize because that would be great for our business". I am currently working with two clients that are both fed up with their union labor forces and are skirting the rules to hire outside contractors to get the job done efficiently and at a competitive cost. The unions at both companies have filed complaints with the NLRB.

I am not aware of one company that wouldn't rejoice if they could get their workforce out of whatever union they're in.
_________________________
“The more I read and the more I listen, the more apparent it is that our society suffers from an alarming degree of public ignorance” - Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor

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#3018283 - 11/06/12 07:55 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Vermin93]
TennesseeRains
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 13413
Loc: Hixson,TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Vermin93


Flexibility? What are you talking about? Unions are the most inflexible and inefficient work forces on earth. There are endless rules, restrictions, and stipulations when working with unions and I can assure you that none of them have to do with getting the job done efficiently.



Agreed.

Much the same with government.
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#3018325 - 11/06/12 08:12 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16034
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
Can one of you Pro-Union guys please explain to me how market recovery works and exactly why it is needed?

Thank you.


I didn't think so...
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3018675 - 11/06/12 10:26 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: W C]
Stoner
6 Point


Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 680
Loc: Florida

Offline
The union membership are basically good people that are being used by their leadership. It the people that run the unions that are corrupt and disingenuous. They are incapable of telling the truth and have to hide behind lies. It time that union members take their unions back from their corrupt leadership. The Democratic Party and the unions are in bed with each other. They have a symbiotic parasitic relationship that feed off each other; one cannot survived without the other. It is all about power and the union leadership routinely sells its membership down the river to maintain its influence. The union leadership are for the most part composed of uneducated thugs that could not make it in the real world and gain their influence by threats and intimidation somewhat akin to the way the mafia conducts business.
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#3018706 - 11/06/12 10:41 AM Re: NJ union thugs turn help away [Re: Stoner]
Camp David
12 Point


Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5283
Loc: TN

Offline
Plus, the "leadership" don't pay dues, which cold explain an earlier comment.
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