#2998150 - 10/25/12 07:47 AM
to cull or not to cull
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creativomjh
Spike
Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 47
Loc: West Tennessee
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would yall give this little guy another year and see what happens?
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#2998158 - 10/25/12 07:58 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: creativomjh]
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DntBrnDPig
8 Point
Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 1592
Loc: Cleveland, TN
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Of course. Unless you just wanted to eat him. That's a really young deer.
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#2998161 - 10/25/12 08:00 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: DntBrnDPig]
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BlountArrow
8 Point
Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 1278
Loc: SouthEast Tenn
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Most East TN Hunters would say SHOOT!
Myself excluded.
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#2998184 - 10/25/12 08:17 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BlountArrow]
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Outdoor Enthusiast
6 Point
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 840
Loc: Nashville, TN
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He's just a little feller. I would not shoot him.
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#2998188 - 10/25/12 08:20 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Outdoor Enthusiast]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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"Culling" does nothing but remove a deer from the population. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT "improve antler genetics" by culling.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2998222 - 10/25/12 08:31 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BSK]
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DOC1187
16 Point
Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 10380
Loc: east tn
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let him walk
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#2998256 - 10/25/12 08:47 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: DOC1187]
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easy45
18 Point
Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 23845
Loc: Medon
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No way for me, he would have 2 years, maybe even 3 before I even considered killed him
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#2998295 - 10/25/12 09:05 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: easy45]
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ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 10000
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY
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its a yearling
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#2998405 - 10/25/12 10:04 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]
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P@Y
4 Point
Registered: 09/01/11
Posts: 427
Loc: Sumner/Mountgumery
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BSK how do you improve antler genetics?
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#2998470 - 10/25/12 10:41 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: P@Y]
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browning glock
4 Point
Registered: 12/28/11
Posts: 235
Loc: middle tn
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take him out
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#2998524 - 10/25/12 11:07 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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hunter drew
14 Point
Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 7779
Loc: henderson county TN Lexington
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It's a spike. A year and a half old. No I wouldn't shoot him. 3.5 year old spike yes
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#2998536 - 10/25/12 11:26 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: P@Y]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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BSK how do you improve antler genetics?
You don't. Altering genetics of any kind in the wild is impossible.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2998558 - 10/25/12 11:43 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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Nealmeally
6 Point
Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 899
Loc: Giles/Marshall-TN.Limestone-AL
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Why "cull" him???????
He hasn't even had a chance to grow yet..
He may be a 150 in 3 years ...
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#2998603 - 10/25/12 12:08 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Nealmeally]
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Hit&Miss84
Spike
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 37
Loc: Kingsport, Tn
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I might shoot em both, hard to tell what I'm going to to when somebody hands me a gun! Seriously though I think if you are trying to grow big bucks you should let him go and see what happens. If you let him go he may turn into a nice buck, if you shoot him he will just die.
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#2998648 - 10/25/12 12:32 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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Lawrence
8 Point
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: MT. Juliet Tennessee
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No way
if you want meet shoot a doe
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#2998664 - 10/25/12 12:40 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: creativomjh]
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creativomjh
Spike
Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 47
Loc: West Tennessee
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maybe i'll phrase my question differently. if i see him this year, i wouldn't shoot him anyways because he's a little guy. i've got a way bigger doe problem than antler genetics (which is a huge misconception).
i was really wondering, is he always going to be a unicorn? he's been on several of my cameras for months, so I'm pretty certain he's never had two. a cull deer at 3.5 or 1.5 is still a cull deer in my eyes.
Edited by creativomjh (10/25/12 12:42 PM)
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#2998695 - 10/25/12 12:53 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BlountArrow]
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infoman jr.
8 Point
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 1495
Loc: Elizabethtown, KY
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Ahh I'd let him live. He might surprise you.
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#2998730 - 10/25/12 01:10 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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Rockhound
8 Point
Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 1950
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN
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Hes just a baby
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#2998898 - 10/25/12 03:10 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: creativomjh]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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i was really wondering, is he always going to be a unicorn? he's been on several of my cameras for months, so I'm pretty certain he's never had two. a cull deer at 3.5 or 1.5 is still a cull deer in my eyes.
I can see in the picture that he at least has a pedicle on the missing-antler side, so there is the possibility he will grow normally paired antlers in the futre. Some bucks do not develop a pedicle on one side, hence are destined to always have only one antler.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2998920 - 10/25/12 03:29 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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StalkingWolf
8 Point
Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1231
Loc: Dyersburg, TN, USA
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pass
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#2998942 - 10/25/12 03:54 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: StalkingWolf]
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Stumpy
Spike
Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 78
Loc: NW TN
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The only way to have old mature bucks is to pass the young deer. really no way to tell what this guy will do in another 3 years unless he lives.
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#2998950 - 10/25/12 03:58 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Stumpy]
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Dbllunger
10 Point
Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 3093
Loc: Murfreesboro
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I would not shoot this deer. Way to young. Let him grow a few more years at least to see what happens.
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#2999267 - 10/25/12 07:36 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Dbllunger]
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Phil1979
10 Point
Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 2537
Loc: Arlington, TN
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Let him go.
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#2999359 - 10/25/12 08:22 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Phil1979]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16986
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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I would only shoot him if I considered him to be a "trophy" buck (to me). Prefer to eat does, so main reason I take bucks is for antlers (although I do eat the buck venison as well).
Many people consider ANY antlered buck a "trophy", so if he's a trophy to you (and legal), have at it. Just don't complain about there being no larger antlered bucks around when you shoot them before they can grow larger antlers. Regarding that particular 1-horned buck depicted above, he's only a yearling, and he will very likely have what most hunters consider a "large" rack should he live to 4 1/2 or older. If he doesn't, he'll be a trophy to me because he's an "older" buck, even if he then just has one gigantic spike on his head.  But right now, he's first and foremost a yearling buck.
IMO, CULLING is just an excuse to kill a particular buck that doesn't meet the standards of one's peers, while the hunter doing the "culling" actually considers that particular buck a trophy.
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#2999365 - 10/25/12 08:24 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Phil1979]
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rem270
16 Point
Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 17369
Loc: south fulton
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no way id shoot
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#2999603 - 10/25/12 11:16 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: easy45]
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W.Seay
12 Point
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 7149
Loc: Collierville,TN.
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No way for me, he would have 2 years, maybe even 3 before I even considered killed him
X2
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#2999661 - 10/26/12 05:09 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BSK]
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Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point
Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 10948
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee
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"Culling" does nothing but remove a deer from the population. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT "improve antler genetics" by culling.
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#3000913 - 10/26/12 08:04 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: creativomjh]
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Tikkabuck
10 Point
Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 4019
Loc: Humphreys,Co
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Na let the little guy eat some.
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#3001019 - 10/26/12 09:07 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Tikkabuck]
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Columbia Scott
6 Point
Registered: 01/23/11
Posts: 737
Loc: Columbia, Tennessee
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Last year I had one that looked just like that follow me to the stand then lie down beneath me until I walked out for the evening. I shut him behind a gate to keep him from following me. Pass.
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#3001066 - 10/26/12 09:41 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: DntBrnDPig]
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buckhorn40
Non-Typical
Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 27455
Loc: Crossville
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Let him walk!
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#3002013 - 10/27/12 02:47 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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HOOK
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 05/01/99
Posts: 15416
Loc: Rutherford County, TN
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There is no such thing as a cull buck....you either shoot it or your don't....
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#3002609 - 10/27/12 09:06 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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redblood
16 Point
Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 10182
Loc: Lewisburg
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the only thing he has working against him is youth. let him stroll
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#3003353 - 10/28/12 11:31 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Rockhound]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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yep
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#3003356 - 10/28/12 11:32 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: P@Y]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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BSK how do you improve antler genetics?
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#3003396 - 10/28/12 11:54 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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DeerKiller2012
4 Point
Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 495
Loc: Southern Middle TN
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thats a yearling , but if it's a trophy to you, bust him.
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#3003479 - 10/28/12 12:42 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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LA man
16 Point
Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 18557
Loc: spencer, tn/houma, la.
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let him walk
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#3003535 - 10/28/12 01:23 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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Tar12
4 Point
Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 138
Loc: USA Indiana
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If you have ever seen or watched any of the studies done you would not pull the trigger just yet. It was amazing to me to see what a so called"cull" could turn into.
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#3005882 - 10/29/12 02:01 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: Stumpy]
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DaveB
8 Point
Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1783
Loc: Shelby County
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Make a nice sandwhich, that's about all that's there, he doesn't even go wuff, he prolly has a lisp and goes fffff. Bit young I'd say. Maybe born early this year, those east side things start really early, so's I heard tell.
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#3005997 - 10/29/12 03:01 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BSK]
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hitek7
4 Point
Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 213
Loc: Eva, AL
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"Culling" does nothing but remove a deer from the population. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT "improve antler genetics" by culling.
So bucks have no part of future antler genetics? If a doe is bred by a buck with "messed up" or inferior antler growth the doe does not have a chance of giving birth to a buck that will have "messed up" or inferior horns?
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#3006032 - 10/29/12 03:19 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: hitek7]
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jb3
10 Point
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 3308
Loc: Burns, TN
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You'd be better off killing all the does that are passing that gene. Bet there are more of them then inferior bucks. Why does it matter if a deer has jacked up antlers?
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#3006040 - 10/29/12 03:21 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: hitek7]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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"Culling" does nothing but remove a deer from the population. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT "improve antler genetics" by culling. So bucks have no part of future antler genetics? If a doe is bred by a buck with "messed up" or inferior antler growth the doe does not have a chance of giving birth to a buck that will have "messed up" or inferior horns?
A bunch of different points to make on this topic:
First, bucks with "messed up racks," especially those with just one antler being "messed up," are usually due to injury to the antler pedicle, the buck's body, or to the growing antler while it was in velvet. Now antler-deformations caused by injuries to the growing antler or to the buck's body can fade away with time (not be repeated in future sets of antlers). But a deformed antler due to injury to the antler pedicle are usually permanent and often get worse with age (this is the most common cause for older bucks with one normal antler and the other antler being a malformed spike).
Second, the heritability (genetics) of antler characteristics is not well understood. It appears to be a very complex process, and not just a simple 50% from the mother and 50% from the father sort of thing. Although detailed studies have not been completed, the few studies that do exist show little relationship between father's and sons' antlers. In essence, all of the male offspring of a single buck will not produce simliar size/shape antlers, nor will any of the sons' antlers look like their father's in any measureable way. HOWEVER, the sons of a single mother often DO have similar antlers, in both shape and size. This suggests the mother's genetics play a larger role in male offsprings' future antlers than their father's genetics.
Lastly, in a free-ranging situation, most yearling bucks disperse from their birth ranges, taking their genetics with them, and often traveling miles away from their birth range before establishing a new adult range. All of these "dispersing" yearling bucks are replaced by yearling bucks also dispersing from their birth ranges miles away, bring in their "new" genetics. So even if the link between genetics and antler size could be determined, most of the older bucks that use a given property are not the offspring of the local bucks and does. The offspring of the local bucks and does left around their first birthdays and now live miles away. Because of this young buck dispersal process, you can never "concentrate" any male-based genetic traits in one area.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#3006575 - 10/29/12 08:31 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BSK]
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creativomjh
Spike
Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 47
Loc: West Tennessee
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Awesome info, BSK. thanks!
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#3006945 - 10/30/12 06:37 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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jbhtn
Spike
Registered: 08/21/06
Posts: 72
Loc: Middle Tennessee
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He's still got milk around his mouth. Let him grow up!
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#3008949 - 10/31/12 10:08 AM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: jb3]
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hitek7
4 Point
Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 213
Loc: Eva, AL
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You'd be better off killing all the does that are passing that gene. Bet there are more of them then inferior bucks. Why does it matter if a deer has jacked up antlers?
Yes, but how is that determined (does that are passing the gene)? I am talking older bucks that just have smaller horns and bodies. We have some deer on our property that just seem like different breeds. There was one buck shot last year that was 4 years old and only weighed 125 lbs, 6 point. We see several deer like this every year but we have several iof heavier weight deer also. Does this gene not get passed along by the buck?
BSK, Good read, thanks for the info.
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#3009328 - 10/31/12 01:51 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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Legnip
4 Point
Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 133
Loc: Brentwood, TN
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He's too young.
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#3009360 - 10/31/12 02:10 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: hitek7]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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You'd be better off killing all the does that are passing that gene. Bet there are more of them then inferior bucks. Why does it matter if a deer has jacked up antlers? Yes, but how is that determined (does that are passing the gene)? I am talking older bucks that just have smaller horns and bodies. We have some deer on our property that just seem like different breeds. There was one buck shot last year that was 4 years old and only weighed 125 lbs, 6 point. We see several deer like this every year but we have several iof heavier weight deer also. Does this gene not get passed along by the buck?
Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing whether an undersized mature deer is that way because of his genetics, or is undersized because of the life he has lead. If a deer is undernurished when they are young, they will be stunted for life. Some fascinating research is also strongly suggesting that if a deer's mother was underfed from just before she became pregnant through her pregnancy, that offspring will be stunted for life.
The role genetics plays in what a deer looks like (size-wise) is extraordinarily complicated, and the "outcome" (what a deer looks like) often has nothing to do with that deer's genetics.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#3009577 - 10/31/12 04:34 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: BSK]
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hitek7
4 Point
Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 213
Loc: Eva, AL
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Guess we will keep letting them walk, fun to see anyway. We always let the kids shoot them if they get a chance though.
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#3009582 - 10/31/12 04:40 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: hitek7]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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They are probably doing much more good in the herd than harm. The more older bucks you have--regardless of their size--the better the herd will function.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#3010035 - 10/31/12 11:03 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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MossyOakChick
6 Point
Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 655
Loc: Baxter, Tennessee
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I don't think he has a genetic problem. Probably damaged pedicel.
_________________________
Life is not about the breath you take but the moments that take your breath away.
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#3012686 - 11/02/12 01:04 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: browning glock]
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DeadEyeShooter
Spike
Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 92
Loc: Tennessee
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Thats a tiny buck give him 3yrs then hell be a shooter
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#3013226 - 11/02/12 07:48 PM
Re: to cull or not to cull
[Re: DeadEyeShooter]
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airdawg11
Button
Registered: 09/20/12
Posts: 7
Loc: Tn
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People used to think, once a spike always spike. Couldn't be further from the truth. A spike is just fawn that was born late and didn't have the time to generate much antler growth. There have been studies where spikes have the potential grow to be larger than year 1/2 old 6's n 8's in the long run. All genetics. As for the unicorn thing, you'll never know til next year if he is still around. Plus deer with funky antlers are actually pretty cool to shoot, given he has a problem with his antlers. Shoot ya a doe instead n wait for the big boy! Good luck!
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