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#2994728 - 10/23/12 09:29 AM Savage and 325 gr FTX
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 737
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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Decided to try the 45/70 325 gr FTX in my savage smokeless ML. MMP orange sabot with 44gr 5744 at 1925 FPS. The groups at 120 yards are just ok at 2 inches. However, the bullets are tumbling at that range, as evident keyholes in the target. None of the sabots are blown. I have tried different charges and it loads too tight with BCR sabots(bending ramrod}. I really wanted this combo to work, as it would be effective at short and long ranges. BTW, this gun is a tight shooter with 300gr XTP's, hornaday .458 300gr HP and .458 barnes original using the same powder load and a BCR sabot. I experimented with N120 early on but did not have good accuracy, but never tried it with these bullets. I would rather not change to a powder that is not as reliable. Secondly, I realize the Barnes original takes a lot to expand. Does anyone have experience using them on boiler room shots at ranges of 50 to 200 yards? Blood trail, after shot run distance, etc. Any suggestions?
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She told me if I go hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#2994751 - 10/23/12 09:39 AM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: SCAT]
cecil30-30
16 Point


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 14303
Loc: Morgan Co

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From what I read on dougsmessage board,that the 300gr barnes originals is the bee's knees when it comes to deer..And are you sure the bullets are tumbling? Seems like if the 325gr ftx was tumbling,you wouldn't be getting a 2inch group at 120yds.
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#2994783 - 10/23/12 10:00 AM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: cecil30-30]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1147
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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I have read that some were getting great results with the 325s. Might want to push them just a bit fast than that. 5744 is a wonderful easy to ignite powder but does not provide very good speed with heavy bullets. I would lean toward the N120 or 4198. Accuracy and reliability can be improved by duplexing with your 5744. I won't give recipes here but they are readily available on the green board. Perhaps you might want to switch to the orange MMP sabot and see if that helps. I use BCR with Barnes Originals and it does fine. Some guns just don't like them and the orange will do better.
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#2996211 - 10/24/12 12:12 AM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: tasaman]
holstonangler
6 Point


Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 970
Loc: Johnson City

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Thats one of the loads i use, i've never had one tumble on me. Here's a couple important questions. Have you looked at the sabots closely after shooting them & how long of wait time between shots?
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#2996551 - 10/24/12 09:22 AM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: holstonangler]
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 737
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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The sabot (orange MMP)shows no damage. It will tumble on a cold barrel. For subsequent shots, I use a cool rod in the warmer months but in the cooler months I sit the gun aside and shoot others. The groups are consistently 2 inches. I was happy in the summer with this load. This past sunday,10/21, I went to the range to confirm POI. I took a friend, his ML, the 25-06, and 30-06. I noticed the bullet holes were a little ragged and not "round". It began to eat at me that night. Monday, 10/22, I went back. The first 3 shots were a little ragged. I increased the charge from 5744 44gr to 44.5gr and the next shot was keyholed. I dropped to 43gr and the holes were still ragged. I can't use the BCR with this bullet as it is far too tight. 5744 is a reliable powder and I didn't get good accuracy with N120. If I change powders, it has to be reliable. I would rather use 5744 with a lesser projectile than chance a misfire. Crunch time is nearing and this dog has to be ready to hunt. I have went back to the Hornaday .458 300gr HP for now, and with the same poi to 200 yds, the BO will be my hog load. I will continue load development after 1/6/2013. Note: per the hornaday ballistics chart, this bullet has a MV of 2000 FPS from a 45/70 and 2225 from a Marlin 450. Again, I am at 1925 FPS with 44gr. I did not chrono the 44.5gr shot that keyholed. Your advice and suggestions are much appreciated and.
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She told me if I go hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#2996849 - 10/24/12 12:20 PM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: SCAT]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1147
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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Good sound thinking CR. It won't hurt to keep shooting with new loads just don't move your scope from your known good shooting load and you'll be fine. I'm really wanting you to get those 325s shooting well I would like to try them someday just in case I go moose hunting. I'm not kidding about that one I have friends in Maine that want me to go with them I just can't afford to go. lol
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#2996867 - 10/24/12 12:34 PM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: tasaman]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 3069
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: tasaman
Good sound thinking CR. It won't hurt to keep shooting with new loads just don't move your scope from your known good shooting load and you'll be fine. I'm really wanting you to get those 325s shooting well I would like to try them someday just in case I go moose hunting. I'm not kidding about that one I have friends in Maine that want me to go with them I just can't afford to go. lol


They would have to run me off lol
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#2999383 - 10/25/12 08:32 PM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: Rockhound]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 358
Loc: USA Indiana

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I have shot literally hundreds of the .458 BOs in the Savage 50 cals. You can expect a .458 hole in and a 1.5-1-3/4 .in exit on avg. I personally think that there is no better bullet for the .50 cal as they do not over expand and cause uneccessary damage. You will rarely find a BO as they always exit creating 2 holes in which I prefer. They do have the thickest jacket of any 300 grn bullet available for the .50. This bullet was designed as a dangerous game round by Barnes years ago and used primarily in the .45-70 gov. rounds. It will plow through bone and take a deer at any angle. I tested this bullet from every angle. It is also a solid MOA performer to 300 yds.The BO prefers a strong kick in the backside. My favorite is 60 grn of N120,HBCR,FED 209 a. This nets you somewhere around the 2450 FPS range on avg.You will have a avg.35-40 yds death run with a boiler room shot.ALWAYS a blood trail that is not needed.Shoulder shot..DRT.
Here is a 300 yd MOA 3 in ctc group out of the .50 cal I built for my son for his first smokeless gun using the above mentioned load...








Edited by Tar12 (10/25/12 08:41 PM)

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#3026862 - 11/10/12 07:43 PM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: Tar12]
SCAT
6 Point


Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 737
Loc: ANDERSON CO.

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The problem may have been found. Opening day, temp approx 45 degrees, I took a deer at approx 115 yds. I reloaded a follow-up shot that wasn't needed. The gun stayed loaded for for 3 days. Tuesday morning I missed a buck at 85 yards. I reloaded and it stayed loaded for 2 days. Thursday, I went to the range early and the first shot was 18 inches high. As the weather warmed up, the poi moved down eventually close to the correct poi. All the while, it was erratic. Tried different bullets- 300 XTP- 300HP- BO, a new can of 5744, new box of winchester primers, checked scope mounting, mounted a new backup leupold scope, checked recoil lug and bedding, cleaned everything, replaced vent liner. Nothing helped. It got better after temps were above 40-45. After 2 days of cussing, I decided to change powder to Reloader 7. Problem solved...Switched back to the 325FTX and shot a great group at 120yds. Waited til next morninmg and made a shot at 34 degrees and was spot-on. The new load is 325FTX - 63gr Reloader 7 - orange MMP sabot. 5744 is supposed to be very temperature insensitive. It is also said to become erratic at very low temps.
_________________________
She told me if I go hunting one more time she's gonna leave me......I'm gonna miss her...

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#3027239 - 11/11/12 07:45 AM Re: Savage and 325 gr FTX [Re: SCAT]
Tar12
4 Point


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 358
Loc: USA Indiana

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5744 is one of the most reliable powders available for the Savages.
I have shot well in excess of 15 lbs of 5744. All in .50 cals. Never once was there a temp. problem with ignition or wild swing in POI with this powder.I torture tested this powder over several winter months by loading the gun and putting it in the freezer and taking it out and shooting it. It ALWAYS went bang to POI @ 100yds. I also would load the gun and bring it back and forth from the warm house to the freezing truck in temps from double digit minus windchill to 75 degrees. I assure you that your problem was not 5744. I shot this powcer exclusively for 4 yrs with the slightest problem. There is the possibly of moist/bad powder or more likely the culprit was MMP sabots. They are notorios for having inconsistent sabot petal thickness. Thats why I do not use MMP anymore. FYI,the Savage was designed around the 300 grn XTP and 5744 and it has always been noted for being a consistant performer.Also 5744 and Reloader-7 are both double based powders with Reloader-7 being a slower powder. This means they are both ultra reliable cold weather powders.

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