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#299064 - 07/13/07 07:51 PM Question for Triple 7 Users
Double Drops
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Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 1131
Loc: Lafayette, TN

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Which primer are you guys using? I'm thinking about converting over to Triple 7 from Pyrodex. Is there any primers I need to stay away from? Thanks in advance
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#299220 - 07/13/07 09:33 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Double Drops]
Kevin B.
8 Point


Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 2327
Loc: Hardin County

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Yes, Triple Seven primers by Winchester. Not to be confused with Winchester muzzleloader primers. They are different. The triple seven primer is the answer to the crud ring problem that trip 7 powder is noted for(though it's not really a problem if you damp patch between shots). Wal Mart in Lafayette doen't have them out yet Double Drops. But they do have regular Winchester muzzleloade primers, for five bucks and change. The triple seven primers are much higher, but better in my book. Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope its helpful.

Edited by kevinb (07/13/07 09:34 PM)
Edit Reason: misspelling

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#299283 - 07/13/07 10:17 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Kevin B.]
RUGER Administrator
Mouse Killa
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If you are going to use triple seven pellets MAKE SURE you are using an inline WITH 209 primers.

It says so right on the box...... trust me, they put it on there for a reason.

As far as brands go, I think I used Winchester primers.
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#299517 - 07/14/07 09:09 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: RUGER]
CHRIS WILSON
8 Point


Registered: 05/31/05
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Loc: Lebanon, TN

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I used the 777 primers last season and really like them.
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#300289 - 07/15/07 09:02 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: CHRIS WILSON]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Another question for 777 users: What's the conversion rate from FFg black powder to 777? For instances, how much 777 is equivalent to 100 grns of FFg black powder?
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#301449 - 07/16/07 12:57 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
woodchuckc
8 Point


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1800
Loc: Hickman County, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Another question for 777 users: What's the conversion rate from FFg black powder to 777? For instances, how much 777 is equivalent to 100 grns of FFg black powder?


Bryan,
Loose 777 comes in both FFg and FFFg. Use a volume equivalent charge of 777 in FFg to your FFg black powder. According to the Hodgdon literature, you will gain about 200 fps over the same volume charge of black powder: http://www.hodgdon.com/tripleseven/t7granular.php

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#301510 - 07/16/07 02:01 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: woodchuckc]
Bad-Bowtie
8 Point


Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 1029
Loc: Cocke County

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I switched from 2 50gr. pyrodex pellets to 90 grain of loose 777, since 777 is supposed to be hotter. Also am using CCI 209Magnum primers.
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#301619 - 07/16/07 03:57 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Bad-Bowtie]
GRAMPS
14 Point


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 8600
Loc: Mount Carmel, TN

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Ruger, sounds like I missed a "tip of the day" somewhere.
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#301841 - 07/16/07 07:06 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: GRAMPS]
RUGER Administrator
Mouse Killa
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I will see if I can get it typed up for ya. \:D
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#303950 - 07/18/07 10:04 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: RUGER]
Food Plot 101
8 Point


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 2424
Loc: Goodlettsville,TN USA

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I'm using Winchester primers with no problems. I shoot a .50 T/C Black Diamond, two 50gr. 777 pellets with a 240gr. Powerbelt Aerotip bullet.
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#304173 - 07/18/07 01:21 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Food Plot 101]
tndeer101
4 Point


Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 176
Loc: Lebanon,Tn

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I'm using the Winchester Triple 7 primers with 100 gr of Triple 7 FFg powder in my 50 cal Encore, and I have a lot less ring crud than using other primers including the Remington Kleanbore primers. I have anyways used a spit patch between shots but with other primers I had a tough crud ring right in front of the breech plug. The Winchester primers seems to mostly eliminate this problem. I recently saw the Winchester primers at Dick's at Mt. Juliet for about $5.95. Wished I had bought a few more before season. There is definitely an increase in velocity using Triple 7. For years, all I used was Goex FFg blackpowder in my Knight MK85. When I bought the Encore, I decided to try the Triple 7. Glad I did. I got drawn for the first gun season in Iowa this year, and I'm taking the Encore. I bought up a boatload of Barnes 250 and 290 gr polmertipped bullets last year before copper prices soared. I need to shoot each and see which is more accurate. When I was shooting T/C Shockwaves, I got better accuracy with the 300 gr, so maybe the 290 Barnes will be the better bullet. A little time and powder will tell.
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#305422 - 07/19/07 12:10 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: ]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Here's another strange 777 question:

My brother just bought a new T/C Triumph MZ. He took it out and shot it with 100 grns of 777 pellets (two 50 grn pellets) and a 295 Powerbelt aerotips. The gun shot awesome right out of the box.

However, he went out and shot it again a few days later and it's throwing bullets all over the place. He loctited the scope in so that isn't the problem. He was cleaning the gun between every shot. The only difference is he used T/C bore butter in the barrel and left it in thick to season the barrel, but cleaned it thuroughly before shooting. Is there something about the combination of 777 and bore butter we should know? I use Powerbelt bullets and bore butter in my Omega with no problems, but then I shoot real Goex FFg black powder.

My brother also mentioned that the 777 residue in the barrel is completely different after the bore butter than before. The first time he shot it, there would only be some gray, dusty residue in the barrel after each shot. Now, with the same package of pellets, same amount of powder, same primers and same bullets, the residue is muck blacker and thicker.

Any ideas?
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"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#305498 - 07/19/07 01:01 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 7039
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

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99 % of the accuracy problems with a muzzleloader i have had have been scopes. The mounts may be tight but muzzleloaders are very hard on scopes. I would try a different scope just to see. I have noticed nothing different about using bore butter.
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#307625 - 07/21/07 08:37 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: muddyboots]
BSK
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Well, my brother cleaned the barrel with products that will break down the bore butter and the gun is shooting better again. I still can't imagine it was the bore butter, but that is the only thing he changed.


muddyboots,

I agree scopes are usually the issue, but my brother is using a T/C muzzleloader scope that has been on another MZ for years with no problem.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#307785 - 07/21/07 11:40 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
SAWDUST
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point


Registered: 11/25/99
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bsk go to http://www.bpbullets.com and check out those 25 acp primer adapter and the vari-flame adapters.
not saying this is your problem by no means but if the gun is throwing fliers every now and again it is possible.
the article also talks about the crud ring that you are talking about and which my encore has.
i will probably have one soon.
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#307866 - 07/21/07 02:45 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: SAWDUST]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11783
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

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I don't shoot 777, but "seasoning" the barrel in my last muzzleloader with Bore Butter gave me the same accuracy problems. I cleaned it all out and all was well.

I threw the tube of Bore Butter away.

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#309506 - 07/23/07 07:07 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Trapper John]
BSK
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Sawdust,

Not an occassional flier, but every shot went wild all over the place. And it wasn't a crud ring, but all of the fouling was much blacker and greasier.


Trapper,

That's basically what my brother did, threw the stuff away, although we've always had great luck with it in guns that are using real black powder.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#312275 - 07/25/07 12:02 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: SAWDUST]
Model70Man
12 Point


Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6745
Loc: Knoxville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: SAWDUST
bsk go to http://www.bpbullets.com and check out those 25 acp primer adapter and the vari-flame adapters.
not saying this is your problem by no means but if the gun is throwing fliers every now and again it is possible.
the article also talks about the crud ring that you are talking about and which my encore has.
i will probably have one soon.


I have the 25 ACP primer breech plug, and honestly there is no change in accuracy. Biggest load of crapola I ever bought into for my ML. I shoot 110 grains of pellets (1 50 grain pellet and 2 30 grain pellets) with a 245 grain Barnes Spitfire and shoot the Remington Kleenbore 209 primers. I bought the 777 Winchester 209 primers and had too many hang fires at the range and strongly do not recommend them to anyone. The basic 209 Winchester primer works fine and the Remington Kleenbore is so easy to clean.
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#312387 - 07/25/07 07:12 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Model70Man]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Another very disturbing problem my brother is having is the number of misfires he's experiencing. The gun just "fizzes" and the bullet plops about 10 yards away on the ground. The 777 pellets are no longer in the gun, but they obviously did not burn correctly. I'm wondering about the 777 loose powder now. I had concidered switching to 777 from real black powder (because real black powder is so hard to buy these days), but with the kind of problems my brother is experiencing, I doubt I will.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#312558 - 07/25/07 09:52 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
CHRIS WILSON
8 Point


Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 2108
Loc: Lebanon, TN

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 Quote:
Another very disturbing problem my brother is having is the number of misfires he's experiencing. The gun just "fizzes" and the bullet plops about 10 yards away on the ground. The 777 pellets are no longer in the gun, but they obviously did not burn correctly. I'm wondering about the 777 loose powder now. I had concidered switching to 777 from real black powder (because real black powder is so hard to buy these days), but with the kind of problems my brother is experiencing, I doubt I will.
I've been shooting 777 for 3 years now. I shot pellets the first year and loose for the last two. With several hundred rounds through 3 different muzzleloaders, I've never experience the problem you've just described. Does he swab with a wet patch between shots? Could be he's not getting all the residual moisture out of the barrel before loading the next charge. The residual moisture could cause the charge to fizzle. Is he sure he actually loaded a charge? I've heard of that happening before, folks getting distracted and loading a bullet without loading a powder charge. You'd be surprised at how much power a 209 primer has.
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#312731 - 07/25/07 11:34 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
big jim
4 Point


Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 416
Loc: South of Norene, Wilson County

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BSK,

Perhaps the bore butter was inhibiting the gas seal of the powerbelts. I think they are slightly smaller than .50 caliber for ease of loading in a variety of guns.

I has a smililar problem when using TC sabots in my kids MZ (which is of spanish manufacture). With bore butter they were all over the place. Dry, they were extremely consistant.

TC does not recommend the use of bore butter with plastic sabots. I know the Powerbelts are said to be full caliber, but they do have a plastic base.

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#312891 - 07/25/07 12:48 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: RUGER]
moondawg
16 Point


Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 19233
Loc: Millington, TN

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 Originally Posted By: RUGER
If you are going to use triple seven pellets MAKE SURE you are using an inline WITH 209 primers.

It says so right on the box...... trust me, they put it on there for a reason.



Yep, another Ruger tip of the day. ;\)
So...what happens when you shoot them with another type primer? \:D
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#313064 - 07/25/07 03:27 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: moondawg]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11783
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

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I don't advocate pellets. At all.

I love shooting American Pioneer loose powder, but the pellets suck. I've heard of problems with just about every type of pellet out there. Triple 7, American Pioneer, or Pyrodex...the reports of problems always go up with pellet users.

I'll just pre-measure some quick loads. I'm too paranoid to worry about a pellet igniting correctly.

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#313903 - 07/26/07 07:14 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Trapper John]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Chris,

Yes, he is using a wet patch and then a dry patch between every shot. He has been concerned about moisture and is now firing a 209 primer through it before loading. We will see what that does, but honestly, I would recommend switching to loose powder.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#313905 - 07/26/07 07:15 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: big jim]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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 Originally Posted By: big jim
BSK,

Perhaps the bore butter was inhibiting the gas seal of the powerbelts. I think they are slightly smaller than .50 caliber for ease of loading in a variety of guns.

I has a smililar problem when using TC sabots in my kids MZ (which is of spanish manufacture). With bore butter they were all over the place. Dry, they were extremely consistant.

TC does not recommend the use of bore butter with plastic sabots. I know the Powerbelts are said to be full caliber, but they do have a plastic base.


Thanks big jim, that is interesting information. He has quit using the bore butter and has scrubbed the barrel intensely to get the bore butter out.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#313906 - 07/26/07 07:16 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: Trapper John]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Trapper John
I don't advocate pellets. At all.

I love shooting American Pioneer loose powder, but the pellets suck. I've heard of problems with just about every type of pellet out there. Triple 7, American Pioneer, or Pyrodex...the reports of problems always go up with pellet users.

I'll just pre-measure some quick loads. I'm too paranoid to worry about a pellet igniting correctly.


My feelings exactly Trapper.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#314014 - 07/26/07 08:17 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
iowavf
10 Point


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 3120
Loc: southwest iowa

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I've always used either pyrodex and now use the 777 pellets without any troubles of any kind. The pyrodex pellets did have to be loaded a certain direction or they wouldn't burn correctly, but I didn't see anything on the 777 box that states that. I tried the loose powder, but I couldn't get the powerbelt bullet to seat the same each time. I have my rod marked so I know if the bullet is seated the same and my shots where all over the place. I think it was due to the design of the plastic base on the bullet because that's about the depth the bullets where verying. I shoot powerbelts and I also use bore butter, but my gun isn't sighted in with a clean barrel. My 1st shot with a clean barrel is always high and to the right a little. I fire the gun once and then I can shoot up to 7 or 8 times without running a patch down the barrel and it's a very tight group. I know most people clean the barrel after each shot, but I didn't like the idea of cleanning the barrel if I had to make a quik follow up shot while hunting.
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#315243 - 07/26/07 09:47 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: iowavf]
bonekelektr
6 Point


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 735
Loc: Sullivan Gardens

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I shoot 777 pellets with the Win. primers and a 250gr. shockwave bonded....I use the Thompson cleaning and seosoning products for 777...One thing I do at the range is clean between shots..A couple of the cleaning patches thru and a couple of dry or till they're clean..This is with the breech-plug removed..This takes awhile but I know the pressures are consistent it will shoot the same each shot...
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#315463 - 07/27/07 06:32 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: bonekelektr]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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I use the Thompson cleaning and seosoning products for 777...

I didn't know they had a special seasoning product for 777. What is it?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#315547 - 07/27/07 07:45 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
Double Drops
8 Point


Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 1131
Loc: Lafayette, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
I use the Thompson cleaning and seosoning products for 777...

I didn't know they had a special seasoning product for 777. What is it?

I think this is what he's referring to:
https://secure.tcarms.com/store/index.ph...3/prevstart/36/
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#316856 - 07/28/07 08:54 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
bonekelektr
6 Point


Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 735
Loc: Sullivan Gardens

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I think they are called T-17 products....They are pre-saturated patches..I use the cleaner and the seosoning ones..You can gitim at Cabelas or Wal-Mart..I think the key is whatever you use is to be consistent and do the same thing each time........
_________________________
I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for my salvation.....

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#316912 - 07/28/07 09:48 AM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: bonekelektr]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Thanks guys!
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#332323 - 08/08/07 01:24 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: BSK]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Just an update:

My brother switched to loose Triple 7 powder and his misfire problems have ended. With the pellets, he was getting a misfire (primer would blow the bullet and unburned powder pellets out of the barrel) about once every 15 to 20 shots. He's put over a hundred rounds through the gun with the loose Triple 7 and no misfires.

He also said the bullet groups have tightened up considerably with the loose powder.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#339970 - 08/13/07 07:50 PM Re: Question for Triple 7 Users [Re: ]
Trapper John
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point


Registered: 03/13/99
Posts: 11783
Loc: La Vergne,TN/Decaturville, TN

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I've read that Triple Seven is much better at not losing "power" after being opened than other black powder substitutes. Not sure of an actual time limit, but I assume if you don't subject it to major swings in temperature it'd last a few seasons.

I'm going to give Triple Seven a try this year. The main reason I haven't tried it yet is because I'm so used to the easy cleaning of American Pioneer. However I have to give it a try and see for myself if 777 is as clean as they say.

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