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#2980692 - 10/14/12 09:24 AM ultimate small game/yote gun....
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10574
Loc: Warren Co

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Got to thinking/
.22LR is perfect for small game but a tad under for yotes and such.
.22mag is too hot for small game and good to light for yotes.

.17hmr is a bit overclocked for small game but still a tad light for yotes

.20 is a bit hot for small game but better for yotes.

So.... I know for liability reasons a manufacturer wouldn't build one but...

Why not build a .22LR/.22MAG rifle. Similar to the concept of the Ruger Single Six revolver?

With CCI stingers you get around 1600fps with 22.mag you get about 2200fps.

With modern propellants, would it be POSSIBLE to soup up a .22LR to 2000+fps?

If not, would it be possible to build the chamber on a .22 to handle both 22.lr and .22mag? Probably be some challenges for an auto loader.

What about going old school and making a wheel gun style rifle? Picture a Ruger single six with an 18" barrel and a shoulder stock ?

For some reason I am fascinated with the idea of a "one gun" concept for small game up to coyotes. Instead of the "perfect" caliber, could you build a more versatile platform ?
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#2980839 - 10/14/12 11:49 AM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
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CZ 455 has interchangeable barrels and you can get them with the 22LR,22WMR and 17HMR barrels in a set,,

I have the Varmint 22LR and have an sporter weight 17HMR barrel coming in the mail,
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#2980942 - 10/14/12 01:23 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: mr.big]
leader
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Registered: 08/10/06
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Loc: Knox

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There you have it....
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#2980953 - 10/14/12 01:33 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: leader]
FULLDRAWXX75
12 Point


Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 6265
Loc: Adirondack Mtns, NY

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Buy them all, one can never have too many guns..............LOL

FDXX75
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#2980965 - 10/14/12 01:43 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: leader]
mr.big
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here is mine with the Varmint 22LR barrel,,but with the varmint stock you can use any of the other varmint weight barrels,or any of the sporter weight barrels with or without sights.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/produ...an+3+Barrel+Set

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#2981069 - 10/14/12 02:54 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: mr.big]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10574
Loc: Warren Co

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That CZ is sweet! But its not what I would consider one gun for this discussion.

What I was trying to get at is this.

IS it possible to make ONE rifle that shoots both 22lr AND 22 Mag out of the same set up WITHOUT changing the rig?

OR
Could the 22 LR be souped up enough with modern powders to reach 22 mag velocity, thus making it a legit (though light) coyote/varmint gun out to say 100 yds ?

Hmmm
Perhaps the ideal would be to have HOT .22 mag loads for yotes AND reduced .22mag loads for smaller game....
Being a rimfire, handloads would be impractical so that means factory shells. Probably wont work.

Perhaps a different angle.
Can you load a .223 DOWN enough to be safe (no stovepipes) AND be useful for small game without turning a squirrel into hairy hamburger?
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#2981131 - 10/14/12 03:44 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
Nhill
8 Point


Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 1656
Loc: Maryville, TN

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i like your idea, and i would also like to see something like a 22lr over a .223.
it could be like a savage 24, just no shotgun barrel.

i bet you could get something custom made on a savage 24 frame.

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#2981132 - 10/14/12 03:44 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
meat hunter
6 Point


Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 712
Loc: SE TN

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I am puzzled as to why you think the 22 mag is too much for small game. I have been shooting squirrels for 20 plus years with a 22 mag. There was a short time when I drank the 17HMR koolade but after watching a couple groundhogs and a couple wild dogs run away I got over that caliber. 22 WMR to me is the perfect gun for what you are wanting.
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#2981145 - 10/14/12 03:54 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
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I load my CZ 527 Varmint 223 with the 69 SMK and a load of Blue Dot that is subsonic and very accurate at 100 yards,,start about 15 grs and work down .2 grs at a time until you reach your desired speed,,kinda like working up a load backwards,,

I would have to check my notes but IIRC the load I use is around 9 grs,,
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#2981239 - 10/14/12 05:12 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: mr.big]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10574
Loc: Warren Co

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Dont have a .223 but would like one.

.22mag is ok for small game but hit a squirrel in the body and you have mush. At least the time I hunted with a buddy who used one.

Mr.big, what do you shoot the subsonic in if you don't mind me asking? Will it cycle an AR type platform?

Maybe the answer IS a slower bigger bullet instead of speeding up a smaller one.
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#2981372 - 10/14/12 06:24 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
Plateau Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 05/19/00
Posts: 1962
Loc: Cannon County, TN

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The 22 magnum and .22lr use different bore sizes. The convertible revolvers use the bigger magnum .224 groove barrels so the smaller .222 22lr will shoot through but with diminished accuracy. The .22 Hornet can be loaded down to .22lr or 22 magnum levels and loaded 'full power' for coyotes etc. PH
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#2981495 - 10/14/12 07:23 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: Plateau Hunter]
Encore Eye Candy
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Registered: 08/29/00
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If you load use Trail boss on a 223 platform. and get a head shot.
55 GR. HDY FMJ IMR Trail Boss .224" 2.200" 4.0 grs 1074 fps


Edited by Encore Eye Candy (10/14/12 07:27 PM)
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#2981506 - 10/14/12 07:26 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
Kimberman
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Registered: 10/30/05
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The 22 Hornet will do what you are talking about. I was really wanting a single shot Hornet for exactly what you are talking about, you can handload the hornet to 22lr, 22 mag, and full 22 Hornet. Then someone pointed out that it is illegal to shoot small game with a centerfire, so I scratched that idea.
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#2982372 - 10/15/12 11:08 AM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: Kimberman]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10574
Loc: Warren Co

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 Originally Posted By: Kimberman
The 22 Hornet will do what you are talking about. I was really wanting a single shot Hornet for exactly what you are talking about, you can handload the hornet to 22lr, 22 mag, and full 22 Hornet. Then someone pointed out that it is illegal to shoot small game with a centerfire, so I scratched that idea.


Well crappin catfish batman.... back to the drawing board.

Im intrigued by those double rifles. The ones that have a .20 ga and a .22 over/under. Wonder if I could get one in a 7-08 / .22 or 7-08 / 12 ga.
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#2982693 - 10/15/12 03:20 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
Dienamic
4 Point


Registered: 10/22/10
Posts: 449
Loc: East TN

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Saw one in 308 ovr 20. It was one of the Russian Remingtons I believe. USSG or Balika (however you spell it...).
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#2982730 - 10/15/12 03:36 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: Dienamic]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3543
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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5MM Remington Magnum.

Head shot on squirrels = headless squirrel.

Coyote = Bang flop.

Groudhogs = mush.

Bucks the wind a lot better than the HMR.

Hard to find these days though.

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#2982773 - 10/15/12 04:05 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: Dienamic]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10574
Loc: Warren Co

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 Originally Posted By: Dienamic
Saw one in 308 ovr 20. It was one of the Russian Remingtons I believe. USSG or Balika (however you spell it...).


That might be perfect!
Use the 20 for squirrel and keep a .308 in the pipe for varmints.
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#2982778 - 10/15/12 04:07 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 9113
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
That CZ is sweet! But its not what I would consider one gun for this discussion.

What I was trying to get at is this.

IS it possible to make ONE rifle that shoots both 22lr AND 22 Mag out of the same set up WITHOUT changing the rig?.....


Unfortunately no, it's not.
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#2983540 - 10/16/12 12:07 AM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: fishboy1]
landman
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Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2746
Loc: TN & Western KY

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I believe if mr.big was shooting at the yote with that 22L
he would be dead at 200yards or no 22mag needed
he can make them 22's smoke
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#2983625 - 10/16/12 05:56 AM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: landman]
mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
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Loc: Copper Head Road

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I use 65 SGK 223 for yotes,,
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#2984648 - 10/16/12 05:06 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: mr.big]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3522
Loc: Franklin County

content Online
Kimberman said
"Then someone pointed out that it is illegal to shoot small game with a centerfire, so I scratched that idea. "

Isn't that only illegal during deer season? Regardless, I agree that the 22 Hornet is perfect for one gun that can be used for squirrels to coyotes with only an ammo change. If you are a bullet caster, it can duplicate 22LR really cheap too.

Another cartridge - although I admit it being an oddball nowdays - would be the 32-20. You can still get the recent runs of Marlin's 1894 so chambered in good used condition for $500 or therebouts. I've tried it on squirrels with a 115 grains Lyman flat nosed cast bullet loaded to about 1,280fps and it flat out knocks small game down and out without blowing them apart. I have no doubt it would kill coyotes reasonably well assuming a good hit.

All this though assumes you can get two loads that shoot close enough to the same point of impact to actually hit your target with both without adjusting the sights. Some guns do that while others won't. \:\)

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#2984655 - 10/16/12 05:13 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: Hunter 257W]
Hunter 257W
10 Point


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 3522
Loc: Franklin County

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Oh yeah, I had a comment on the original question about shooting 22LR and 22Mag in the same chamber. One of my 1st guns was a Squires Bingham (made in the Philippines) 22 Mag bolt action rifle. Being a kid, with limited money, I tried shooting 22LR and even Shorts and Longs (remember them??) in my 22Mag. They would fire but the cases would split most of the time. When you think about it, it is obvious that the 22MAg chamber is going to be larger in diameter because it uses a regular bullet that is full diameter all the way to the base and requiring the MAg case to be larger than the bullet. The 22LR uses a 'heeled' bullet which means the LR case is the same diameter as the bullet. The revolvers get around this since you change out the cylinders but you can't get past this in afixed chamber gun.

I vote for using the 22 Hornet for most people!


Edited by Hunter 257W (10/16/12 05:15 PM)
Edit Reason: clarify

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#2986117 - 10/17/12 02:14 PM Re: ultimate small game/yote gun.... [Re: Hunter 257W]
David Sapp
4 Point


Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 474
Loc: Signal Mtn

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What about a 223 with a 22 LR insert? Could go deer to squirrel with that outfit pretty easily.

http://www.mcace.com


Edited by David Sapp (10/17/12 02:14 PM)

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