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#2979936 - 10/13/12 02:48 PM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: muddyboots]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17495
Loc: Franklin TN

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
Im with red blood. I started killing mature bucks when i quit killing does with firearms. I still shoot them with a bow but not with any kind of gun.
I guess I was referring to killing them with a bow in early season before the rut. Didn't say that, but that's what I had in mind.


Im not very good at killing them that time of year. In fact i hae never killed a mature buck early season. Did shoot at one once. Used twenty yard pin and he was 25. I can still see him.
sorry I meant killing does with a bow in early season. lol I am not being very clear I guess. I would be thrilled to even see a mature buck in early season, or any time for that matter.
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#2979951 - 10/13/12 03:07 PM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: muddyboots]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19448
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
Im with red blood. I started killing mature bucks when i quit killing does with firearms. I still shoot them with a bow but not with any kind of gun.

Let me add a little here.
First, I see little difference between killing does with firearms vs. killing them with an arrow. Dead is dead. IMO, one can be more efficient and less disturbing when killing does with firearms, i.e. get it done quicker and be gone. I kill most my does now with a neck shot, and they don't run. Half the time when I shoot, other deer either just stand around wondering about that loud clap of thunder while others frequently run towards me. The gunshot itself is usually little more "scare" to the deer than a deer suddenly taking a death run from an arrow hitting it.

Here's what I believe matters most regarding shooting does: TIMING.
It's not so much which weapon you're using, but rather when and how you use it.

I believe it's best to shoot them early, such as during early archery season, the first few days of TN's Nov. muzzleloader season, or post-rut. From a herd-health (biological) standpoint, it's best to shoot the does pre-rut, meaning much of the best "time" is during the archery-only season. If legal, I'd much rather take out the needed does with a firearm during early October. Archery is sometimes the only legal choice with the best "timing".

Generally speaking, I now avoid taking does during the rut peak, which where I do most my hunting is approximately a 2 to 3-week period of about Nov. 5 to 25. My reasoning is that this is the "time" that older bucks are moving most during daylight, and I need to spend as much time "hunting" them as I can, and not lose any of that time to dragging out and/or processing a doe. And of course, there's the issue of "disturbing" the hunting area by tracking and dragging, an issue in itself more than issue of what weapon's being used.

But any time "can" be a great time to take a doe, even during the rut peak. Let's say it's a cold November morning, about sunrise, and an estrous doe comes by, providing you a very easy neck shot at 20 yards (with a firearm). It may very well be the best strategy you have for taking a good buck is now dropping that doe in her tracks and remaining on stand. The key is not to blow your opportunity by acting like some of those TV actors on hunting videos, i.e. don't move, don't make any noise. The sound of a single gunshot seldom spooks a buck trailing the doe you just shot, while there is no better big-buck attractant than a just-killed estrous doe lying in front of your stand.

Let me add something about neck shots. I've killed over 50 deer with them, and in the past 20-plus years, have had zero misses, zero failed recoveries with neck shots. I only take them up close and with a firearm, and when I'm near 100% certain it's an "easy" shot. For this, I need "close" and have studied deer behavior enough to know when's the "time" to pull the trigger. When a doe stops walking, and raises her head, she will usually hold it still for at least a couple seconds. A feeding doe will typically flick her tail before raising her head, then holding still for at least a couple seconds. To do this effectively, you must be ready to pull that trigger when the motion stops, crosshairs centered on neck, squeeze trigger. Typically, the deer will simply fall in place and not move anything. Other deer standing around will often walk over to the dead deer, that just fell in its tracks ---- something that almost never happens with a perfectly placed arrow, i.e. the deer runs off, as nearby deer throw up their flags and run away as well.

It's very important to me to only take high-probability kill shots, regardless of the weapon being used, so a neck shot is often not an option. Just saying when it is, it's the least-spooking to other deer, and you won't have to worry about tracking. It also damages the least venison. Unfortunately, necks shots should never be taken with archery equipment. For those who haven't tried this, it's been my experience that a close neck shot with a firearm is usually a higher probability kill than a close-range double-lung shot with a bow.

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#2980090 - 10/13/12 06:17 PM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: catman529]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 15295
Loc: Lewisburg

content Online
 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
Im with red blood. I started killing mature bucks when i quit killing does with firearms. I still shoot them with a bow but not with any kind of gun.
I guess I was referring to killing them with a bow in early season before the rut. Didn't say that, but that's what I had in mind.



i really feel the very end of the season is the best time to kill does if your overall goal is to kill a mature buck. killing them in bow season, takes away their availability to be courted, chased and bred during the rut. i feel every doe equals a 12-30 hr window that a buck will let down his guard and chase her into an opening, where he can be shot.i want as many of those windows available to me as possible. just depends on what your overall goal is.


Edited by redblood (10/13/12 06:18 PM)
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#2980234 - 10/13/12 08:09 PM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: muddyboots]
ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER
16 Point


Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 12818
Loc: FRANKLIN COUNTY

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 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
Im with red blood. I started killing mature bucks when i quit killing does with firearms. I still shoot them with a bow but not with any kind of gun.
same strategy here

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#2980235 - 10/13/12 08:10 PM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: catman529]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



Having too many does on any property, no matter the number of acres, will result in less buck sightings. This will especially come into play if there are very thick areas for them to hide and carry out the mating process.

Older bucks will typically pick out a doe and push her to the area that he is most comfortable. The area he has been all year and you didn't see him.

I wouldn't be scared to say that you should shoot as many does as possible during bow season. If you are hunting a good 100 acres in Williamson County there is no possibility of killing too many.

My philosophy is that a lower doe population leads to more competition and more movement. I hunt a nice property in Williamson County with tons of does and know the frustration.

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#2980333 - 10/13/12 09:11 PM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: redblood]
Hollar Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 2287
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: redblood
 Originally Posted By: catman529
 Originally Posted By: muddyboots
Im with red blood. I started killing mature bucks when i quit killing does with firearms. I still shoot them with a bow but not with any kind of gun.
I guess I was referring to killing them with a bow in early season before the rut. Didn't say that, but that's what I had in mind.



i really feel the very end of the season is the best time to kill does if your overall goal is to kill a mature buck. killing them in bow season, takes away their availability to be courted, chased and bred during the rut. i feel every doe equals a 12-30 hr window that a buck will let down his guard and chase her into an opening, where he can be shot.i want as many of those windows available to me as possible. just depends on what your overall goal is.



X2 leave things as undisturbed as possible. Shoot does at the end of season or on properties you don't hunt big bucks but everybody has different goals cat so do what makes hunting the most fun for you.


Edited by Hollar Hunter (10/13/12 09:12 PM)
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#2980491 - 10/14/12 12:26 AM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: Hollar Hunter]
catman529
spiderboy
16 Point


Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 17495
Loc: Franklin TN

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I had heard that fewer does makes for more competition so bucks will be roaming more in search of does... I could be wrong but that was my thought process. I'm killing the does for the meat and having a lot of fun at it and was also wondering if it will help buck sightings later in the season towards the rut. Thanks everyone for all the info.
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#2980597 - 10/14/12 07:42 AM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: catman529]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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catman529,

The reality is, considering the does using your 100-acre property probably are covering 400-600 acres, you really can't have that much of an impact on doe density or adult sex ratio when you only have 100 acres to work with. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot does. It just means that those doe kills you make won't make a big biological impact on the area. If you want to shoot does, for fun or for meat, have at it.

If you can kill them early in bow season, do so. If you want to wait until after the rut, that's fine too. But as others have pointed out, killing them during the rut can be a problem simply due to all of the human activity and traffic required to recover a downed doe; i.e. everything involved with "harvest pressure."

But the idea that less does in the area reduces the number of bucks attracted certainly is not true, and the idea of having more does increases the amount of chasing is equally untrue.
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#2980642 - 10/14/12 08:25 AM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: BSK]
dr
10 Point


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4405
Loc: USA

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I have a hard time killing does, when I know there could be a mature buck following just minutes behind.
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#2980754 - 10/14/12 10:25 AM Re: Killing does to increase buck sightings [Re: dr]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25532
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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 Originally Posted By: dr
I have a hard time killing does, when I know there could be a mature buck following just minutes behind.
x 10000
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