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#2977630 - 10/11/12 06:41 PM blackhorn powder and cva optima
BACKWOODS BOY
4 Point


Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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I bought a new optima last year stainless fluted thumbhole the whole 9 yards. I put a new leoupold ultimate slam scope on it. Ihave always shot 2 pyrodex pellets with 250gr. bullet but i couldnt get a pattern at all with it. So i took the advice to try loose powder and everyone pointed me towards the blackhorn. Tried it today first shot was about a 2 second delay so i reloaded pulled the trigger nothing...tried again nothing i took out the breech plug and knocked out old powder and reloaded again with new still nothing barely could get it to burn with a lighter lol..obviulsly just a bad batch of powder but i dont think i could ever use this again with any confidence..so my next question who has a gun like mine and what does it pattern good with going to try 3 pellets (150gr) if that dont work maybe white hots??
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#2977682 - 10/11/12 07:14 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
ImThere
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Registered: 08/24/06
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Loc: Lewisburg, Tn

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My buddy shoots it fine with cci primers
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#2977733 - 10/11/12 07:44 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3484
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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It is not a bad batch of powder. It will not burn worth a crap if it's not loaded under pressure. Trying to light it with a lighter tells you nothing, it reacted the way it was designed to react.

1. You may not have a bullet/sabot combo that is tight enough to seat firmly over the charge.

2. Your breech plug may not be set up for BH209. I'm not familiar with your gun enough to tell.

3. Your primer is not hot enough. Try a mag 209 primer.

4. Combination of the above.

Don't give up on it, you just haven't figured it out yet.

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#2977748 - 10/11/12 07:51 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3484
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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If worse comes to worse send it to me, I shoot about 10 jugs of it a year.

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#2977775 - 10/11/12 08:07 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
FrontierGander
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Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 633
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado

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Order the blackhorn209 breech plug from cva or try the following:

http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/cva-headspace-adjustment-shims.html

You need to use hot primers like the cci 209m primers and make sure you use a #32 or a 3mm drill bit and with your fingers, spin it down the breech plugs flash channel " primer end" and "cut" the carbon out of it. Clean it every 10 shots or so.

Its not a bad batch of powder, its the hardest powder to ignite due to the waterproof coating on it.

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#2977779 - 10/11/12 08:08 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
FrontierGander
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Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 633
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
If worse comes to worse send it to me, I shoot about 10 jugs of it a year.


10 jugs of the 10oz stuff is easy to shoot up in 3 months for me LOL. Its better to order the 5lb jugs they have.

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#2977813 - 10/11/12 08:24 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: FrontierGander]
BACKWOODS BOY
4 Point


Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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im just shooting regular cci primers i guess i will try the magnum primers and bullet is 250gr. barnes tez yall think just the primers will help? and i will clean plug better or try to but i have cleaned it good and guns only been shot around 10-12 times since bought new
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#2977818 - 10/11/12 08:25 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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and my plug is fully enclosed so that is not problem i checked earlier today it crossed my mind
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#2977853 - 10/11/12 08:38 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
FrontierGander
6 Point


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 633
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado

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The factory flat faced BP has had issues with bh209, so cva and western powders both made plugs for the guns. Try tightening up the head space against the primer, sealing up the primer blow by really solved a lot of the issues.
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#2977867 - 10/11/12 08:43 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: FrontierGander]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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well i hva enoriced that the prime looks like it only sits about halfway in the plug what do you mean by tighting up the head space?
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#2977869 - 10/11/12 08:43 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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i have noticed*** sorry typing in the dark lol
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#2977870 - 10/11/12 08:45 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3484
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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Western powders used to modify your plug for free if you sent it to them. Not sure if they still offer that.

What sabot are you using? If it's an easy load, switch to a regular sabot. It will load a bit harder but will seat firmly over the powder charge and help with powder ignition.

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#2977880 - 10/11/12 08:50 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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its just the barnes 250 gr. tez there blue..i got a couple tc shockwaves laying around reckon they would be worth trying?
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#2977896 - 10/11/12 08:58 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
FrontierGander
6 Point


Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 633
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado

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go to the link above and watch the video
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#2977976 - 10/11/12 09:29 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: FrontierGander]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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i understand now just seems like alot of hassle lol pay this kind of money and then have to "fix it" before ya can use it..but it did look nice as far as keeping your gun cleaner
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#2977980 - 10/11/12 09:31 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
FrontierGander
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Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 633
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado

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not a lot of hassle. Its better than shooting and shooting and then having the frame so full of primer soot that it takes steel wool to remove it, along with removing the nickle finish off the frame.

Most guns these days had breech plugs made to work with the other subs, then BH209 came out and made it a new ball game. You can order the BH209 from cva for around $20

Keeps your gun cleaner and shooting a lot more consistent

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#2978033 - 10/11/12 09:44 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
smyrnagc
6 Point


Registered: 12/26/10
Posts: 897
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
It is not a bad batch of powder. It will not burn worth a crap if it's not loaded under pressure. Trying to light it with a lighter tells you nothing, it reacted the way it was designed to react.

1. You may not have a bullet/sabot combo that is tight enough to seat firmly over the charge.

2. Your breech plug may not be set up for BH209. I'm not familiar with your gun enough to tell.

3. Your primer is not hot enough. Try a mag 209 primer.

4. Combination of the above.

Don't give up on it, you just haven't figured it out yet.


X2...the sabot has to be snug and tight. Also, the primer is key. I use CCI209M or Federal 209. Never had an issue since making this change.
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#2978105 - 10/11/12 10:22 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3484
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BACKWOODS BOY
its just the barnes 250 gr. tez there blue..i got a couple tc shockwaves laying around reckon they would be worth trying?


The blues are probably not tight enough, see if you can find some Harvester black sabots, or even the shockwave black sabots. Try that and mag primers before you order the new plug. You do need to keep the flash channel clean with the drill bit though. Turn the bit by hand.

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#2978111 - 10/11/12 10:25 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
ratsnakeboogy
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Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3484
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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The 250 TEZ is a great bullet, don't change it. Just change sabots.
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#2978150 - 10/11/12 10:56 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
fastbs
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Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 779
Loc: putnam co

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Just got an optima from gander mountain. Moded it like my old cva wolf by drilling out the breech plug with a #64 drill bit and adjusted the head space.
Shooting 90gr by volume bh209 with a 300gr hornady xtp and mmp sabot. Used cci primers.

Shooting with the oe fiber optic open sights here's 5 shots at 100yds. Had to put something dark on the target to aim at. Im pretty happy with the results, could probably make some really nice groups with a scope.


Every couple shots I clean out the hole in the breech plug with a small straightened paper clip. The breech plug would sometimes get clogged in the cva wolf.

Gander mountain is running a $50 off $250 sale till this weekend (I think) which makes the ss/black optima about $225 shipped after taxes. Regularly 249.99 had to add a small item to make $250.
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#2978196 - 10/12/12 12:14 AM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: fastbs]
FrontierGander
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Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 633
Loc: Boncarbo,Colorado

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the flash hole isnt very picky, the flash channel on the other hand is. Reduce the size of it with carbon, and you cut down the amount of hot gas getting to the powder. Let that happen and thats where your hang fires, no fires come from.

If you ever get a no fire, make sure you re-seat your bullet as the primer will blow the bullet a good 6 to 8 inches off the charge.



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#2978423 - 10/12/12 08:18 AM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: FrontierGander]
BACKWOODS BOY
4 Point


Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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Ok I'm starting to get it all figured out going get a shim kit as go from there and pic up some different sabots and see what happens
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#2984972 - 10/16/12 08:04 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 181
Loc: jackson county

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shim kit on the way hoping for the best thanks guys!!
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#2985295 - 10/16/12 09:43 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
Boone 58
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Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 14773
Loc: Food Plot

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 Originally Posted By: BACKWOODS BOY
i understand now just seems like alot of hassle lol pay this kind of money and then have to "fix it" before ya can use it..but it did look nice as far as keeping your gun cleaner


Do what he says, i did on my cva accura v2 and it worked!!! you wont believe the difference.
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#2985675 - 10/17/12 08:27 AM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
iowavf
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Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 3123
Loc: southwest iowa

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Never heard of a TC having any problems shooting BH, but heard of some other brands needing the breech plug reworked. BH needs a hot primer, Federal is the hottest, then CCI mags and these are the only 2 I would recommend. I've shot my encore over 15 times during an afternoon with no issues using BH and no cleaning of anything.
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#2994122 - 10/22/12 09:02 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
BACKWOODS BOY
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Registered: 11/17/07
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Loc: jackson county

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Well guys after all the questions and answers I got the shim kit on and all the other loose ends tied up and boy it shoots great now thanks again for everything guys!!!!!
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#2994148 - 10/22/12 09:12 PM Re: blackhorn powder and cva optima [Re: BACKWOODS BOY]
smyrnagc
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Registered: 12/26/10
Posts: 897
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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You have a great combo and will like the way it performs. Now...go get you a big one (on 11/3)!
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