#2968710 - 10/04/12 02:29 PM
45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
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cg02175
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Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Tennessee
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Has there been any consideration by TWRA to legalized the use of primitive weapons, such as the single-shot 45-70 during primitive weapons/muzzleloader season?
I know the 45-70 is consider a primitive weapon and can be used during muzzleloader season in Mississippi. With the advancements in today's in-line muzzleloaders(accurate to over 200 yds), as well as, the fact that the 45-70 single shot is a primitive weapon, I personally don't see why we can't now use other primitive weapons, such as the 45-70 during muzzleloader season.
Any input from TWRA would be appreciated. Thanks
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#2968766 - 10/04/12 03:05 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: cg02175]
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JeepKuntry
16 Point
Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 13274
Loc: Clinton, TN
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Amen. I'd love to get rid of my muzzleloader!
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#2968831 - 10/04/12 03:53 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: JeepKuntry]
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scn
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There has been discussion on the issue and the recommendation of the staff was not to make the change.
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#2968914 - 10/04/12 04:49 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: scn]
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Chaneylake
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There has been discussion on the issue and the recommendation of the staff was not to make the change.
maybe TWRA should reconsider blackpowder cartridge, a specific license would create more revenue and purchase of rifles and accessories would help boost the economy, jmo
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Living somewhere between this world and the other, Legends of the Fall
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#2968964 - 10/04/12 05:36 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Chaneylake]
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Timber Ghost
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Would all 45-70's be considered primitive? New 45-70 cartridges are any thing but primitive.
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Animal rights "What do you feel when you shoot an innocent deer?"
Hunter "A slight recoil."
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#2968978 - 10/04/12 05:51 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Timber Ghost]
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Chaneylake
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Would all 45-70's be considered primitive? New 45-70 cartridges are any thing but primitive.
reloads are better than factory, I am putting 10 shots in a 5 inch circle at 300 yards with iron sights with my .40-65 Shiloh Sharps, the guys out west are inside a 3 inch circle
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"Don't piss down my back and tell me its rain", Fletcher, Outlaw Josey Wales
Living somewhere between this world and the other, Legends of the Fall
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#2968981 - 10/04/12 05:52 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Chaneylake]
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Chaneylake
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Would all 45-70's be considered primitive? New 45-70 cartridges are any thing but primitive. reloads are better than factory, I am putting 10 shots in a 5 inch circle at 300 yards with iron sights with my .40-65 Shiloh Sharps, the guys out west are inside a 3 inch circle
a .40-65 is just a .45-70 necked down to 40 caliber
_________________________
"Don't piss down my back and tell me its rain", Fletcher, Outlaw Josey Wales
Living somewhere between this world and the other, Legends of the Fall
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#2969000 - 10/04/12 06:24 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Chaneylake]
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JSPAL270
6 Point
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I have a love hate relationship with muzzle loaders.
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#2969294 - 10/04/12 09:38 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: bowriter]
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Rockhound
8 Point
Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2003
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN
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The most commonly used "style" of muzzleloader are anything but primitive. I don't think that is the point any longer. Loading through the muzzle does create a limitation. Once the gun is loaded, it is certainly not primitve. As it is, it is my opinion we do not need another season "type" nor do we need to make muzzleloader season any less primitive. However, that is just my opinion. My true feeling as that we should have one season-Oct. 1-Jan, shoot whatever you want with current limits to remain. Cost of license to be the total of the three seperate tags. But that is just my opinion 
Sounds like a plan to me!
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#2969391 - 10/05/12 12:55 AM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Rockhound]
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cg02175
Spike
Registered: 11/04/11
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Loc: Tennessee
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There are multiple states that currently allow the 45-70 to be used during muzzleloader season. I don't think we need a separate/specfic season for a primitive weapon, such as the 45-70; however, I don't see the harm in allowing a single-shot style 45-70 to be used during the muzzleloader season. I hope TWRA re-visits this topic again and follows suit with what many other states currently allow. This would be a revenue boost for the state and hunting-related sales.
Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I can't think of one good legimate reason why not to allow a primitive weapon, such as a 45-70 to be used during muzzleloader season. Thanks for all the feedback!
Edited by cg02175 (10/05/12 01:01 AM)
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#2969406 - 10/05/12 04:27 AM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: cg02175]
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mike243
14 Point
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Loc: east tn
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I hope it never passes here.you can reload 10x faster than a smokepole & as a rule are more accurate.other States have not even allowed scopes ect.
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#2969450 - 10/05/12 06:24 AM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: bowriter]
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KPH
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 1770
Loc: Hendersonville Tenn
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The most commonly used "style" of muzzleloader are anything but primitive. I don't think that is the point any longer. Loading through the muzzle does create a limitation. Once the gun is loaded, it is certainly not primitve. As it is, it is my opinion we do not need another season "type" nor do we need to make muzzleloader season any less primitive. However, that is just my opinion. My true feeling as that we should have one season-Oct. 1-Jan, shoot whatever you want with current limits to remain. Cost of license to be the total of the three seperate tags. But that is just my opinion
I agree with the one season, but we will never see that again, too much mony involved.
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#2969461 - 10/05/12 06:36 AM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: mike243]
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Rockhound
8 Point
Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2003
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN
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I hope it never passes here.you can reload 10x faster than a smokepole & as a rule are more accurate.other States have not even allowed scopes ect.
More accurate?? What kind of muzzleloader are you shooting head over to the guns and gunsmith forum, and check out the "im gonna call it good thread". No more accurate than todays MZ
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#2969476 - 10/05/12 06:49 AM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: KPH]
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7mminatree
4 Point
Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 357
Loc: Unicoi Tn.
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Maybe they should reconfigure the seasons as in a primative weapons only which would mean a Recurve bow with no sights or mechanical aids and a muzzel loading rifle being of side lock style and open sight only and cap and ball only type ammunition. let everything else fall under general firearms. That would allow for a purists only season. I can hear all the new techies crying right now. WA WA WA WA. No fancy compound bows or high tech so called muzzel loaders. Just plain old primative only stuff.
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#2969718 - 10/05/12 10:09 AM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: 7mminatree]
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cg02175
Spike
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Tennessee
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Mike243, thanks for the post. Maybe you have one of the older muzzleloaders, but I can assure you that a 45-70 is not anymore accurate than the new style in-line muzzleloaders.
Also, the fact that you can reload a 45-70 faster than a muzzleloader is true; however, we all know that most of the time you are only going to have one shot a deer anyway. If you miss the first time, you are typically out of luck anyway, even with a 30-06. There are times to when you can get a second shoot, but this isn't something that happens alot.
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#2969903 - 10/05/12 12:47 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: cg02175]
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Doskil
6 Point
Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 523
Loc: NC USA
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I thought folks wanted more does killed?
This change would kill more does and provide more opportunity
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#2969980 - 10/05/12 02:15 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Doskil]
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cg02175
Spike
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Tennessee
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In my opinion, I don't really see the use of a 45-70 during muzzleloader season making a significant difference in the amount of doe that are killed; however, it just makes sense. Many other states think the same thing and are already on board.
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#2969992 - 10/05/12 02:35 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: cg02175]
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Savage
8 Point
Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 1539
Loc: Crossville, TN
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Well, would would be the difference between that, and allowing pistol cartridge rifles in single shot, or single shot shotguns with slugs? OR even a pistol season coinciding with muzzy? Less distance, not as accurate, etc.
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"Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison."- Gen 27:3
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#2970045 - 10/05/12 03:52 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Savage]
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cg02175
Spike
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Tennessee
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Savage,
It is not really a matter of what the difference is between one weapon or another. Like many other states have already done (i.e. MS), Tennessee would have to further define what a primitive weapons actaully is.
For instance, according to the state of MS, the definition of a primitive weapon includes " a rifles of an original design, replica, re-introduction or reproduction of a type produced prior to 1900." If the state of TN adopted this defintion, and the firearms you describe met this defintion, I would say you are good to go.
If the firearms meets this criteria, accuarcy and distance wouldn't necessarily matter. My point as it relates to accuracy is that a hunter has no accuracy advantage using a primitive style 45-70 as compared to modern in-line muzzleloaders.
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#2970161 - 10/05/12 06:24 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: cg02175]
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Chaneylake
Brownsville Mafia
16 Point
Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 15332
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Savage,
It is not really a matter of what the difference is between one weapon or another. Like many other states have already done (i.e. MS), Tennessee would have to further define what a primitive weapons actaully is.
For instance, according to the state of MS, the definition of a primitive weapon includes " a rifles of an original design, replica, re-introduction or reproduction of a type produced prior to 1900." If the state of TN adopted this defintion, and the firearms you describe met this defintion, I would say you are good to go.
If the firearms meets this criteria, accuarcy and distance wouldn't necessarily matter. My point as it relates to accuracy is that a hunter has no accuracy advantage using a primitive style 45-70 as compared to modern in-line muzzleloaders.
just for your information, log onto the Shiloh Sharps forum and see what the guys out west are doing with a 1873 Shiloh Sharps, those guys can shoot circles around a modern in-line muzzleloader, not trying to argue, just providing information
_________________________
"Don't piss down my back and tell me its rain", Fletcher, Outlaw Josey Wales
Living somewhere between this world and the other, Legends of the Fall
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#2970240 - 10/05/12 07:40 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Chaneylake]
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cg02175
Spike
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Tennessee
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Chaneylake,
I agree. Both primtive weapons, old muzzleloaders and the new in-line muzzleloader can be very accurate. I just would like to see TWRA consider the use of various primitive weapons during muzzloloader season. Thanks for sharing.
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#2970369 - 10/05/12 09:08 PM
Re: 45-70 primitive weapons and muzzle loaders
[Re: Rockhound]
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CATCHDAWG
10 Point
Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 3259
Loc: Bradley co. TN
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I hope it never passes here.you can reload 10x faster than a smokepole & as a rule are more accurate.other States have not even allowed scopes ect. More accurate?? What kind of muzzleloader are you shooting head over to the guns and gunsmith forum, and check out the "im gonna call it good thread". No more accurate than todays MZ
You might should re-read and look at that post. If you think your m.l. will do better, bring it! 
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