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#2974801 - 10/09/12 06:55 PM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: cecil30-30]
bassinbrian
4 Point


Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 228
Loc: tennessee

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I have a friend that shot it and liked it, but he decided it was to big a risk if he misjudged his load. He now shoots BH209 and loves it.
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#2975311 - 10/10/12 07:13 AM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: cecil30-30]
deerjackie
6 Point


Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 847
Loc: henry co tn

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Dont do it
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shoot this thang marcell and i aint kidding neither

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#2978218 - 10/12/12 04:01 AM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1085
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
Smokeless powder is an explosive, where as subs have a more even burn rate. If you double load 777 it's going to hurt, if you double load H4198 you could be dead.

Add to all this the many types of smokeless powders that have extremely FAST burn rates i.e. pistol and shotgun powders and you have the potential for bubba loading up 70grains of BlueDot is his Knight Wolverine. That folks takes a lot of time to gather up all the pieces to put Humpty Dumpty in the body bag.


Ok there some truths here and some that are not quite. First is regular old black powder is an explosive. Smokeless is not an explosive but burns at a very measurable and repeatable rate. The gas created by the ignition of smokeless expands and pushes the projectile down the barrel. BP subs are somewhat of a blending of the two different characteristics. Especially BH 209 which does contain nitro.

The common book loads for the Savage ML all use slower buning powder such as AA5744, SR4759 and N110.

As for the reason the Savage is smokeless approved...the gun is proof tested to more than twice the max pressure of the book loads. 135,000 psi if memory is not failing again. My book load is about 43,000 psi.

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#2978409 - 10/12/12 08:12 AM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: tasaman]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3491
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: tasaman
 Originally Posted By: ratsnakeboogy
Smokeless powder is an explosive, where as subs have a more even burn rate. If you double load 777 it's going to hurt, if you double load H4198 you could be dead.

Add to all this the many types of smokeless powders that have extremely FAST burn rates i.e. pistol and shotgun powders and you have the potential for bubba loading up 70grains of BlueDot is his Knight Wolverine. That folks takes a lot of time to gather up all the pieces to put Humpty Dumpty in the body bag.


Ok there some truths here and some that are not quite. First is regular old black powder is an explosive. Smokeless is not an explosive but burns at a very measurable and repeatable rate. The gas created by the ignition of smokeless expands and pushes the projectile down the barrel. BP subs are somewhat of a blending of the two different characteristics. Especially BH 209 which does contain nitro.

The common book loads for the Savage ML all use slower buning powder such as AA5744, SR4759 and N110.

As for the reason the Savage is smokeless approved...the gun is proof tested to more than twice the max pressure of the book loads. 135,000 psi if memory is not failing again. My book load is about 43,000 psi.


Black Powder is an explosive, an unstable one at that. Even sharp impact can set it off under certain conditions. Anything Nitro-cellulose based is considered an explosive, where as most sub powders (not including BH209) are a blend of materials usually sugar based. Yes smokeless burns at a repeatable rate, and some are easily metered. If you were to see the pressure wave and spike between smokeless and common subs it would leave no doubt as to why one would call smokeless powder an explosive.
Dynamite ingnites at a very repeatable rate, as does C-4. The difference is speed of ignition and the pressure wave it creates along with the wavelength generated.

As for proof testing, most quality barrels meet or exceed the numbers you gave with an exception of very light contour, or barrles made overseas with suspect steel. In other words, they are ALL designed to withstand a double-load of powder(powder they were intended to use). The problem arises when you not only double load powder but projectile as well, or leave your ramrod in the barrel, or seat a bullet 4 inches above the charge. The pressure spikes on some of these scenarios easily exceed the pressure maximum you listed.

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#2978433 - 10/12/12 08:24 AM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3491
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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Those powders you listed are nowhere near slow to me, maybe you have a different idea than me on this. They are pretty dang speedy for rifle powders.
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#2989569 - 10/19/12 06:12 PM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: ratsnakeboogy]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1085
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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Slow burning does not mean slow fps.
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#2989675 - 10/19/12 07:43 PM Re: Shoot'n smokelss powder [Re: tasaman]
ratsnakeboogy
10 Point


Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 3491
Loc: Andersonville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: tasaman
Slow burning does not mean slow fps.


I agree, but they aren't slow burning either. Not for rifle powders.

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