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#2960621 - 09/28/12 10:33 AM Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please...
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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Question 1, which I'm guessing will evolve into many others:
For the life of me I cannot get this gun to group for anything at 50 yards even. I was hoping to shoot Maxi-Balls or Maxi-Hunter bullets but it isn't working out, tried the patched round ball and no luck, and I even tried some big heavy buffalo bullets I had and they are horrible too. I've got to be doing something wrong. Is it necessary to shoot pistol powder (FFF)? I use Triple Seven Rifle Powder and have only tried using the Triple Seven Rifle Powder. I'd really like to hunt with the rifle, never even been afield with it because it shoots terribly, if I can't make this happen I'm probably going to shelf it and go buy a new muzzleloader. Many thanks in advance! (It's percussion, not flint)


Edited by BlountArrow (09/28/12 10:33 AM)
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#2960638 - 09/28/12 10:47 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
quigleysharps4570
4 Point


Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 316
Loc: Kansas

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My suggestion would be to trash the replica powder and get the real stuff...2f Goex would be where I would start. Still will probably want to play...my .50 likes 2f Swiss...the .54 likes Goex Cartridge grade and the little .40 longrifle shoots 3f Goex. ;\)
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#2960644 - 09/28/12 10:55 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: quigleysharps4570]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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You think the powder would really make that much difference in the accuracy? I mean this thing is all over the place. I'm genuinely asking don't take that the wrong way.
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#2960648 - 09/28/12 10:58 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: quigleysharps4570]
fairchaser
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1345
Loc: TN, USA

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I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.
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"I always wanted to do something that was unequivocal" Charles Morris played by Anthony Hopkins in the movie the Edge.

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#2960663 - 09/28/12 11:09 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: fairchaser]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.


Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2960677 - 09/28/12 11:17 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: fairchaser]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



In my TC hakens 50 cal i use T7 fffg 60 gr for round ball and 80 gr for the hornady great plains. i also have some 275 gr buffalo conical that works good to. am surprised the buffalo didn't work maybe your useing to much powder. hope you can make it work.
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#2960679 - 09/28/12 11:20 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
fairchaser
8 Point


Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1345
Loc: TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.


Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.


You got me there. I thought there was only one size for the 50 cal. If I had to guess, I would say 300 gr. but I could be wrong.
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"I always wanted to do something that was unequivocal" Charles Morris played by Anthony Hopkins in the movie the Edge.

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#2960680 - 09/28/12 11:21 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: ]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: slim jim
In my TC hakens 50 cal i use T7 fffg 60 gr for round ball and 80 gr for the hornady great plains. i also have some 275 gr buffalo conical that works good to. am surprised the buffalo didn't work maybe your useing to much powder. hope you can make it work.


So, you're using 60 grains of the "pistol powder" for your round ball and 80 grains for your great plains bullet. Maybe I am using too much powder...but I thought I tried some pretty light loads for FFG "rifle powder".
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
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#2960683 - 09/28/12 11:24 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: ]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



some people use wads and it seams to help.
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#2960702 - 09/28/12 11:44 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: ]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: slim jim
some people use wads and it seams to help.


I am using a patched round ball. Some people use wads on the Maxi-Ball type bullets - is that what you're saying?
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2960703 - 09/28/12 11:46 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: fairchaser]
BlountArrow
10 Point


Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.


Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.


You got me there. I thought there was only one size for the 50 cal. If I had to guess, I would say 300 gr. but I could be wrong.


No, I believe they have 320 and 370 at a minimum.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2960973 - 09/28/12 04:41 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
TennesseeJed
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Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 346
Loc: Cumberland Plateau

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When you shoot round balls have you found any of the shot patches? If so, were they torn up or burned bad?

What were they lubed with?
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#2961061 - 09/28/12 06:52 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: TennesseeJed]
Buccaneer
6 Point


Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 536
Loc: Hendersonville

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777 is the wrong powder to use with percussion caps, it will not reliably ignite or burn in a traditional muzzle loader like a Hawkin. you need either FFg loose black powder or Pyrodex RS loose BP substitute. I have shot a TC Hawkin and Renegade .54 with 100 grains Pyrodex RS and TC Maxi-Hunters lubed with bore butter for 30 years with great success. For the past 15 years I have used a bore butter rubbed wad between the bullet base and powder.

With the 100 grain loose Pyrodex load patched round balls are tack drivers in my .54 Renegade.

Do not use pellets or 777 in a traditional No. 11 percussion cap ignition MZ. You're asking for trouble and frustration.

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#2961364 - 09/29/12 05:34 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: TennesseeJed]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: TennesseeJed
When you shoot round balls have you found any of the shot patches? If so, were they torn up or burned bad?

What were they lubed with?


Good question, I have found some they are not burnt or torn. They are prelubed...can't remember exactly what but I believe they were either a prelubed pack from CVA or TC.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2961366 - 09/29/12 05:37 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: Buccaneer]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: Buccaneer
777 is the wrong powder to use with percussion caps, it will not reliably ignite or burn in a traditional muzzle loader like a Hawkin. you need either FFg loose black powder or Pyrodex RS loose BP substitute. I have shot a TC Hawkin and Renegade .54 with 100 grains Pyrodex RS and TC Maxi-Hunters lubed with bore butter for 30 years with great success. For the past 15 years I have used a bore butter rubbed wad between the bullet base and powder.

With the 100 grain loose Pyrodex load patched round balls are tack drivers in my .54 Renegade.

Do not use pellets or 777 in a traditional No. 11 percussion cap ignition MZ. You're asking for trouble and frustration.


I'm actually using a musket cap if that makes a difference in the use of 777 igniting. However, I'd really like to be able to shoot the maxi-hunter or maxi-ball so maybe I need to try that. Do you think loose FFG is a better option than FFFG? I ask because I've heard of several folks using FFFG in these side hammers, but I'm a novice to side hammers (obviously).
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2961402 - 09/29/12 07:02 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
TennesseeJed
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Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 346
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Some people say to use 3F in .45 and the smaller calibers and 2F above .45. I used 3F Goex black powder in the Hawken .50 I had and it shot very well.

I use 2F in my .54s and a .58 I have.
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#2961432 - 09/29/12 07:58 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: TennesseeJed]
Thunderroost
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Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1453
Loc: LaVergne, TN

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I agree that the 777 powder might be the problem. harder to ignite and you might not be getting a consistent burn. Back in the day,before Tony Knight showed up, me and a bunch of people were using TC Hawkens and Renegades with pyrodex RS and TC Maxi-balls and doing just fine.
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#2961669 - 09/29/12 12:34 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: Thunderroost]
quigleysharps4570
4 Point


Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 316
Loc: Kansas

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When I sight my rifles in it is on a bench with a few different brands and grades of blackpowder, BlountArrow. As I've said, you can see each one of mine likes something different too. I also use a wad in each cause I get tighter groups than without. Felt wads in the little .40 and .50 caliber and a 28 ga. 1/8" Nitro card in the .54 caliber.
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#2961676 - 09/29/12 12:45 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: quigleysharps4570]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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I'm going to try again with some different type powder...maybe it is the 777, I just wouldn't have thought the powder could make that much difference in the groups or complete lack of grouping I guess I should say.
Do you actually wrap the maxi-ball/maxi-hunter with a wad or use one of those felt buttons? I had never heard of wrapping that type of bullet in a wad, but it sounds like some of you are doing that.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2962010 - 09/29/12 06:44 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
quigleysharps4570
4 Point


Registered: 09/06/04
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Loc: Kansas

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The wad goes between powder and bullet. ;\)
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#2962014 - 09/29/12 06:48 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: quigleysharps4570]
BlountArrow
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 Originally Posted By: quigleysharps4570
The wad goes between powder and bullet. ;\)


I'm a novice, but not that bad ...you probably misunderstood my last post. I've heard of some guys using a patch or wad with a maxi-ball which I've never heard of, but then again they also make those felt buttons. I was just wondering if someone was calling the button a wad or patch.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2962245 - 09/29/12 09:37 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
Thunderroost
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Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 1453
Loc: LaVergne, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
Do you actually wrap the maxi-ball/maxi-hunter with a wad or use one of those felt buttons?


no...just lube, if you don't get the pre-lubed ones
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I have never broken a game law....at least as far as I know

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#2963133 - 09/30/12 08:08 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: Thunderroost]
Wobblyshot1
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Registered: 10/13/10
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TC traditionals have never really impressed me with their accuracy potential. There's a reason Green Mountain Barrel Company sells replacements for them.

I would think, however, you should at least be able to get decent enough accuracy at 50 yards to hunt with it.
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#2963809 - 10/01/12 10:24 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: slim jim
some people use wads and it seams to help.


I am using a patched round ball. Some people use wads on the
Maxi-Ball type bullets - is that what you're saying?


yes your right. sorry for the lack of info.

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#2964080 - 10/01/12 01:07 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
fairchaser
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Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 1345
Loc: TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
 Originally Posted By: BlountArrow
 Originally Posted By: fairchaser
I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.


Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.


You got me there. I thought there was only one size for the 50 cal. If I had to guess, I would say 300 gr. but I could be wrong.


No, I believe they have 320 and 370 at a minimum.


Yeah I checked and I use the 320 gr. maxiballs.
_________________________
"I always wanted to do something that was unequivocal" Charles Morris played by Anthony Hopkins in the movie the Edge.

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#2966886 - 10/03/12 10:57 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: fairchaser]
Anonymous TnDeer Old Timer
Unregistered



all shots was standing up with no rest support. just shot these today.




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#2969060 - 10/04/12 07:16 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: ]
Hickory Nut
4 Point


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 129
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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First thing I would do is get a solid rest. Some of that inaccuracy could be from shooting free-hand. Shooting from a rest will better tell you what the rifle is capable of. If shooting from a rest gives a better group, you know your issue is at least partly with technique.
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#2969426 - 10/05/12 05:40 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: Hickory Nut]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
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 Originally Posted By: Hickory Nut
First thing I would do is get a solid rest. Some of that inaccuracy could be from shooting free-hand. Shooting from a rest will better tell you what the rifle is capable of. If shooting from a rest gives a better group, you know your issue is at least partly with technique.


I'm just new to side locks not new to shooting. I'm shooting from a bench w/rest and using sand bags. At 50 yards it is all over the place maybe I can get some time Saturday to try some of the things you guys have talked about here.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2970315 - 10/05/12 08:25 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
Hickory Nut
4 Point


Registered: 10/06/07
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Loc: Middle Tennessee

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I must have read that wrong. The line at the top of your photo lead me to think you were shooting without a rest. Nevermind.

"all shots was standing up with no rest support. just shot these today."

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#2971528 - 10/07/12 06:48 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: Hickory Nut]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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 Originally Posted By: Hickory Nut
I must have read that wrong. The line at the top of your photo lead me to think you were shooting without a rest. Nevermind.

"all shots was standing up with no rest support. just shot these today."


You understand that was not my post I take it.
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"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2971529 - 10/07/12 06:49 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
BlountArrow
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Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 2835
Loc: SouthEast Tenn

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Well, didn't get a chance to shoot yesterday but hoping to make some magic happen this week based off of your guys' advice.
_________________________
"The world is so dreadfully managed, one hardly knows to whom to complain."
-Ronald Firbank

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#2975197 - 10/10/12 12:40 AM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: quigleysharps4570]
southernhunter
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Loc: alabama

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My shoots 75 grains of 3f , a patched round ball very well, killed a deer at 75 yards open sites last year and a coyote at 50
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#2975699 - 10/10/12 12:05 PM Re: Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please... [Re: BlountArrow]
Brisco Darlin
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i don't know if anyone mentioned but are you making sure your projectile is properly seated against the powder charge. i make a mark on my ramrods so that i know the bullet is seated all the way down.
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