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#2947991 - 09/18/12 05:34 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: dr]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 18645
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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Meanwhile in other news today . . . . . . .

Chicago Continues Economic Slide as Crime Rate Rises, Teachers Strike

Emails show Justice (Eric Holder) working with Media Matters on stories that target critics.
U.S. Justice Department regularly collaborating with the liberal advocacy group Media Matters on stories that slam the administration's critics.

White House opens door to other explanations behind Libya attack, backtracking on the "spontaneous".

US Continues to Slip in Ranking of Free Economies

National Debt Continues to Soar with Obama

Labor Union Leaders Push for Illegal Immigrants to Replace Aging Union Workers

Nero Fiddled, Obama Golfs



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#2948080 - 09/18/12 06:28 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Wes Parrish]
citico_tim
10 Point


Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 4563
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: citico_tim
A fair minded person can listen to Romney's comments and realize he was talking about a number of Americans which he cannot hope to gain their support because they do not care about tax cuts and have a vested interest in extending government entitlements. He is exactly right.

EXACTLY! \:\)

Here, fixed the rest of it for you.
 Originally Posted By: citico_tim
The rest of what you hear about his comments is the left wing media and labor union leaders twisting and adding their own meanings and interpretations. Obviously they don't think you can listen and decide for yourself, and with the 47%ers they are right, and most particularly with those union members.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, probably is the union duck, quacking out the union drivel.

Looks like Romney is taking the ball and running with it now, too! He's standing behind his words as would a man with integrity.
Romney defends donor comment, says more jobs will mean more paying taxes
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/...-them-off-cuff/


Not only is he sticking to them, he is linking them to the Obama income redistribution video. Now if a reporter asks the question, the answer will spotlight Obama's desire to redistribute income.

I actually think the major media will back off this story as soon as they realize they aren't hurting Romney. In fact, IMO it may very well end up helping him, if he plays it boldly.
_________________________
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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#2948240 - 09/18/12 08:16 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: sgtwebb1]
Tony(D)
4 Point


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 316
Loc: TN

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 Originally Posted By: sgtwebb1
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;


From http://www.lawandliberty.org ;

What they meant was that the Constitution and powers granted to the federal government were not to favor special interest groups or particular classes of people. There were to be no privileged individuals or groups in society. Neither minorities nor the majority was to be favored. Rather.the Constitution would promote the "general welfare" by ensuring a free society where free, self-responsible INDIVIDUALS-rich and poor, bankers and shopkeepers, employers and employees, farmers and blacksmiths-would EQUALLY enjoy "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", rights expressed in the Declaration of Independence.


My post doesn't have anything to do with entitlements. I never said anything about handouts either. I actually mentioned that I think Romney makes great points and that he should exploit them.

The founding fathers thought that taxes should be there to pay for the General Welfare of the united states and I agree that they didn't want it to be for any special groups and that it was to be for the general population as a whole.
How those taxes were to be used and what general welfare problems existed back then is by far much different than it is today. The intent is still the same when talking about collecting taxes to take care of our general welfare and I really haven't seen where anyone has debated that as it is written.
I have seen the post by sgtwebb1 and even that post doesn't mention anything about using taxes for the general welfare. I DID see where he mentions a free society and mention of the DOI but IMO that isn't what is meant by saying that our government should "provide for the general welfare of the United States.

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#2948279 - 09/18/12 08:29 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Tony(D)]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 59435
Loc: Smith Co.

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"General Welfare" meant the maintenance, defense and infrastructure of the country.

The term "Welfare" was bastardized by Progressives in and before the Johnson Administration.

"Welfare" of today is not mentioned in the Constitution as this country was not intended to be a Top-Down Socialist Craphole.
_________________________
No matter how big your house is, how big your bank account is or how big your car is, you grave will be the same size as everyone else's.

- Keep it real

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#2948281 - 09/18/12 08:32 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Crappie Luck]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 59435
Loc: Smith Co.

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But there was some Progressive "Welfare" eluded to in the Declaration of Independence.

See if any of these sound familiar?

_________

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
_________________________
No matter how big your house is, how big your bank account is or how big your car is, you grave will be the same size as everyone else's.

- Keep it real

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#2948316 - 09/18/12 08:51 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Crappie Luck]
Tony(D)
4 Point


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 316
Loc: TN

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There are many aspects of what the intent of our government was and is when we talk of welfare as it is seen in our Constitution:

http://adifferentperspective1.blogspot.com/2011/04/right-to-life-in-different-context.html

Not my personal view but still one of many.

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#2948544 - 09/19/12 05:06 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Tony(D)]
citico_tim
10 Point


Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 4563
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA

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I am reminded that the constitution, in its original form, didn't allow non-propertied people to be in a position of voting themselves more gubmint entitlements. So if we were really going back to the constitution of the founding fathers many of the 47%ers wouldn't be voting in the first place.
_________________________
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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#2948955 - 09/19/12 12:02 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: citico_tim]
Tony(D)
4 Point


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 316
Loc: TN

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I would also say that of those who were not propertied people most were the "workers" of their communities. I'm sure that would have included women as well.
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#2949026 - 09/19/12 01:05 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Tony(D)]
348Winchester
6 Point


Registered: 08/13/12
Posts: 833
Loc: Coon Creek

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Universal suffrage is not good for this country. Simply reaching a certain age is not enough for one to have clear judgment to choose a proper route for the country. Too many people think only of their own interests and vote based on that alone. A good citizen considers what is necessary for the whole country and most of the time, but not always, puts their country first. The vast majority of democrats and republicans are guilty of this.
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#2949542 - 09/19/12 08:19 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Tony(D)]
citico_tim
10 Point


Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 4563
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA

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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
I would also say that of those who were not propertied people most were the "workers" of their communities. I'm sure that would have included women as well.


At that time, yes they were. But not today. Today they are takers, not makers.

For example:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2947341&page=2#Post2947341

A perfect example of the Obama 47%er.
_________________________
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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