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#2946977 - 09/17/12 08:31 PM A defining moment for Romney
citico_tim
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I think how he handles this will either make or break him:

Romney Talks Bluntly of Those Dependent on Government

"Mitt Romney described almost half of Americans as “dependent upon government” during a private reception with donors this year and said those voters were likely to support President Obama because they believe they are “entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it.”


He needs to stand by his words, they are truth. Show some guts, take on the media, and he will gain the respect of many more than he'd lose. They're tired of supporting them.
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#2947004 - 09/17/12 08:47 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: citico_tim]
Wes Parrish
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I agree.

But in so doing, Romney is somewhat like David facing Goliath since the mainstream media is already distorting the context and intent of what Romney said, and will further insure any Romney comments are negatively distorted.

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#2947017 - 09/17/12 08:52 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Wes Parrish]
de novo
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Agreed.

He needs to double down on this. The Democrat support is predominantly those that are dependent and the morally corrupt.
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#2947025 - 09/17/12 09:02 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: de novo]
Big J
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About time someone said it!
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#2947026 - 09/17/12 09:02 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: de novo]
Grizzly Johnson
Team Grizzly
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The TRUTH hurts sometimes.....
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#2947303 - 09/18/12 07:24 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Grizzly Johnson]
muddyboots
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Own it! Tell it like it is.
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#2947344 - 09/18/12 07:57 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: muddyboots]
fishboy1
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This is actually an opportunity to hammer Obummbla.

"Its a sad day when nearly half of Americans pay no income tax and are dependent on the government for assistance. What does that tell you about the policies of the Obomma administration? It says FAILURE. Americans don't want poverty and charity. Americans want opportunity, freedom, self reliance, and a chance to better their lot in life. Not to be crushed by bad government policy and fed crumbs by the hand that smashed the American dream. Obumbla can brag about adding MILLIONS to the welfare roles, I will stand for freedom and opportunity."
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#2947349 - 09/18/12 08:00 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: fishboy1]
LB FANATIC
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 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
This is actually an opportunity to hammer Obummbla.

"Its a sad day when nearly half of Americans pay no income tax and are dependent on the government for assistance. What does that tell you about the policies of the Obomma administration? It says FAILURE. Americans don't want poverty and charity. Americans want opportunity, freedom, self reliance, and a chance to better their lot in life. Not to be crushed by bad government policy and fed crumbs by the hand that smashed the American dream. Obumbla can brag about adding MILLIONS to the welfare roles, I will stand for freedom and opportunity."


"Americans want opportunity, freedom, self reliance, and a chance to better their lot in life." - Some do and some dont, Romney needs to concentrate on those DO want this.
I agree his message going forward will be the deciding factor.
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#2947390 - 09/18/12 08:31 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: LB FANATIC]
bigtex
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The liberal media thinks what he said is a bad thing. What idiots!!!! In reality his words were nothing more than the truth, but the liberals are so bent on using any and everything to sway the undecided in their favor they will stoop to anything.
This country is going to hell in a handbasket!!! All I can say is be prepared for the worse. I don't know what it's going to take for the dumb arses to open their eyes.
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#2947414 - 09/18/12 08:51 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: bigtex]
cecil30-30
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The truth hurts...
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#2947416 - 09/18/12 08:52 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: bigtex]
Rebel
TnDeer Old Timer
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All he did give the facts... Facts are like daylight to a vampire when you're a liberal.
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#2947473 - 09/18/12 09:35 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Rebel]
Red4arm
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The problem with what he said is... That 47% includes: any senior living on social security only, many retired vets, many disabled vets,most college students, single working parents with 2 children that earn less than $40000. Yes it does include welfare deadbeats that fit his description, but not the majority of that 47%. And does not include the fact that working people pay pay role taxes even if they don't pay income taxes. And pay roll taxes are about the same percentage as what Romney pays in income tax.
So your 90 year old grandmother living on a social security check is a dead beat looking for a government handout, and needs to go get a job.

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#2947531 - 09/18/12 10:21 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Red4arm]
Wes Parrish
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The problem is our system that rewards failure and punishes success.

Obamanomics is making this into a much, much bigger problem.

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#2947666 - 09/18/12 12:11 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Red4arm]
de novo
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 Originally Posted By: Red4arm
The problem with what he said is... That 47% includes: any senior living on social security only, many retired vets, many disabled vets,most college students, single working parents with 2 children that earn less than $40000. Yes it does include welfare deadbeats that fit his description, but not the majority of that 47%. And does not include the fact that working people pay pay role taxes even if they don't pay income taxes. And pay roll taxes are about the same percentage as what Romney pays in income tax.
So your 90 year old grandmother living on a social security check is a dead beat looking for a government handout, and needs to go get a job.



He said his economic message of lowering taxes does not resonate with 47% of Americans because they do not pay those federal income taxes anyway. So far you are the only one to use the derogatory deadbeat term.
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#2947710 - 09/18/12 12:56 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: de novo]
fishboy1
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A bad idea and bad policy sucks no matter who it includes.
Granny, working parents... anybody.

The government should NEVER have gotten involved in peoples retirement, medical care, welfare, or a host of other "problems" created and managed by politicians.

Our country has become one crisis after another that needs "fixing". If you follow the bread crumbs back to the origin of each crisis, 99% of the time you will find bad policy and progressive/statist/socialist legislation.

SO the gubment creates a program that is DESIGNED to get votes now, and blow up later, creating a problem for the politicians to "fix" with another stupid program. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is exactly why the original Constitution was written the way it was.... to prevent this crap.
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#2947804 - 09/18/12 02:08 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
TennesseeRains
TnDeer Old Timer
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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;


Interesting how liberals misuse the Constitution as needed - and disregard it entirely when it doesn't fit their progressive-socialist paradigm.

The Constitution is not referring to 'welfare' - in the entitlement sense - in the sited text above. In fact, if it was...why didn't the Founders institute it right off the bat? Why did it take a progressive-socialist to ram it through 150 years after the Constitution was penned?
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#2947806 - 09/18/12 02:13 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
sgtwebb1
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Registered: 08/06/00
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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;


Just like a Progressive to distort the original language like that;

"general welfare" of the country simply means the well-being of the country, NOT socialized welfare handouts.
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#2947819 - 09/18/12 02:27 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: TennesseeRains]
Wes Parrish
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 Originally Posted By: TennesseeRains
Interesting how liberals misuse the Constitution as needed - and disregard it entirely when it doesn't fit their progressive-socialist paradigm.

Exactly what I was noting.

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

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#2947820 - 09/18/12 02:28 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: sgtwebb1]
Bambi Buster
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The distinctive odor of waterfowl droppings is in the air again.
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#2947835 - 09/18/12 02:41 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
sgtwebb1
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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;


From http://www.lawandliberty.org ;

What they meant was that the Constitution and powers granted to the federal government were not to favor special interest groups or particular classes of people. There were to be no privileged individuals or groups in society. Neither minorities nor the majority was to be favored. Rather.the Constitution would promote the "general welfare" by ensuring a free society where free, self-responsible INDIVIDUALS-rich and poor, bankers and shopkeepers, employers and employees, farmers and blacksmiths-would EQUALLY enjoy "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", rights expressed in the Declaration of Independence.
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#2947848 - 09/18/12 02:59 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: sgtwebb1]
LB FANATIC
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Registered: 03/25/10
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 Originally Posted By: sgtwebb1
 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;


Just like a Progressive to distort the original language like that;

"general welfare" of the country simply means the well-being of the country, NOT socialized welfare handouts.


Come on guys, it even has the word welfare in it... It has to be relevant... right ?
Regardless of the meaning 225 yrs ago (just this past Monday)
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#2947850 - 09/18/12 02:59 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: cecil30-30]
FLTENNHUNTER1
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Welcome back Tony(D)uCk.

Still going to vote for Obomber?
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#2947868 - 09/18/12 03:12 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Bambi Buster]
AndyW
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Registered: 10/21/10
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 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
The distinctive odor of waterfowl droppings is in the air again.


You thinkin mallard? \:D
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This fall, FIRE THEM ALL. Re-elect NO ONE!!!!!

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#2947883 - 09/18/12 03:39 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: AndyW]
Bambi Buster
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 Originally Posted By: AndyW
 Originally Posted By: Bambi Buster
The distinctive odor of waterfowl droppings is in the air again.


You thinkin mallard? \:D


See post immediately above yours.
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"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#2947886 - 09/18/12 03:39 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
Still-n-Quiet
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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;


Care to give me a couple of quotes from the founding fathers as to their meaning of "General Welfare?" Wonder, as to your implication, why they didn't set up all of these entitlements when they were alive?
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#2947924 - 09/18/12 04:14 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Still-n-Quiet]
citico_tim
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A fair minded person can listen to Romney's comments and realize he was talking about a number of Americans which he cannot hope to gain their support because they do not care about tax cuts and have a vested interest in extending government entitlements. He is exactly right.

The rest of what you hear about his comments is the left wing media twisting and adding their own meanings and interpretations. Obviously they don't think you can listen and decide for yourself, and with the 47%ers they are right.
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"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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#2947947 - 09/18/12 04:44 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: citico_tim]
BMan
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Those multi-syllable words do give libtards fits, don't they?
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#2947972 - 09/18/12 05:14 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: citico_tim]
Wes Parrish
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 Originally Posted By: citico_tim
A fair minded person can listen to Romney's comments and realize he was talking about a number of Americans which he cannot hope to gain their support because they do not care about tax cuts and have a vested interest in extending government entitlements. He is exactly right.

EXACTLY! \:\)

Here, fixed the rest of it for you.
 Originally Posted By: citico_tim
The rest of what you hear about his comments is the left wing media and labor union leaders twisting and adding their own meanings and interpretations. Obviously they don't think you can listen and decide for yourself, and with the 47%ers they are right, and most particularly with those union members.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, probably is the union duck, quacking out the union drivel.

Looks like Romney is taking the ball and running with it now, too! He's standing behind his words as would a man with integrity.
Romney defends donor comment, says more jobs will mean more paying taxes
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/...-them-off-cuff/

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#2947982 - 09/18/12 05:21 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
dr
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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States;
"
Taken completely out of context, but Spoken like a true liberal duck. Just the word "WELFARE" gets liberals excited in anticipation of another handout, or shakedown.
_________________________
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#2947991 - 09/18/12 05:34 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: dr]
Wes Parrish
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Meanwhile in other news today . . . . . . .

Chicago Continues Economic Slide as Crime Rate Rises, Teachers Strike

Emails show Justice (Eric Holder) working with Media Matters on stories that target critics.
U.S. Justice Department regularly collaborating with the liberal advocacy group Media Matters on stories that slam the administration's critics.

White House opens door to other explanations behind Libya attack, backtracking on the "spontaneous".

US Continues to Slip in Ranking of Free Economies

National Debt Continues to Soar with Obama

Labor Union Leaders Push for Illegal Immigrants to Replace Aging Union Workers

Nero Fiddled, Obama Golfs



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#2948080 - 09/18/12 06:28 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Wes Parrish]
citico_tim
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 Originally Posted By: Wes Parrish
 Originally Posted By: citico_tim
A fair minded person can listen to Romney's comments and realize he was talking about a number of Americans which he cannot hope to gain their support because they do not care about tax cuts and have a vested interest in extending government entitlements. He is exactly right.

EXACTLY! \:\)

Here, fixed the rest of it for you.
 Originally Posted By: citico_tim
The rest of what you hear about his comments is the left wing media and labor union leaders twisting and adding their own meanings and interpretations. Obviously they don't think you can listen and decide for yourself, and with the 47%ers they are right, and most particularly with those union members.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck, probably is the union duck, quacking out the union drivel.

Looks like Romney is taking the ball and running with it now, too! He's standing behind his words as would a man with integrity.
Romney defends donor comment, says more jobs will mean more paying taxes
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/...-them-off-cuff/


Not only is he sticking to them, he is linking them to the Obama income redistribution video. Now if a reporter asks the question, the answer will spotlight Obama's desire to redistribute income.

I actually think the major media will back off this story as soon as they realize they aren't hurting Romney. In fact, IMO it may very well end up helping him, if he plays it boldly.
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-Thomas Jefferson

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#2948279 - 09/18/12 08:29 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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"General Welfare" meant the maintenance, defense and infrastructure of the country.

The term "Welfare" was bastardized by Progressives in and before the Johnson Administration.

"Welfare" of today is not mentioned in the Constitution as this country was not intended to be a Top-Down Socialist Craphole.
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"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2948281 - 09/18/12 08:32 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: Crappie Luck]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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But there was some Progressive "Welfare" eluded to in the Declaration of Independence.

See if any of these sound familiar?

_________

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2948544 - 09/19/12 05:06 AM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
citico_tim
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Registered: 10/02/02
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I am reminded that the constitution, in its original form, didn't allow non-propertied people to be in a position of voting themselves more gubmint entitlements. So if we were really going back to the constitution of the founding fathers many of the 47%ers wouldn't be voting in the first place.
_________________________
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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#2949026 - 09/19/12 01:05 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
348Winchester
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Universal suffrage is not good for this country. Simply reaching a certain age is not enough for one to have clear judgment to choose a proper route for the country. Too many people think only of their own interests and vote based on that alone. A good citizen considers what is necessary for the whole country and most of the time, but not always, puts their country first. The vast majority of democrats and republicans are guilty of this.
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#2949542 - 09/19/12 08:19 PM Re: A defining moment for Romney [Re: ]
citico_tim
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Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 4563
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 Originally Posted By: Tony(D)
I would also say that of those who were not propertied people most were the "workers" of their communities. I'm sure that would have included women as well.


At that time, yes they were. But not today. Today they are takers, not makers.

For example:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2947341&page=2#Post2947341

A perfect example of the Obama 47%er.
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"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

-Thomas Jefferson

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