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#2943672 - 09/14/12 05:45 PM another savage smokeless post
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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So im fixing to bite the bullet on one. Let me hear the ins and outs, dos and donts. A good starter hunting load. I don't plan on any long range until i get it all worked out. I reload and weighing charges is not a problem. From what ive been reading the AA powder and 300 gr. Bullets are about norm. Im tired of the nastiness of blackpowder
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2943708 - 09/14/12 06:20 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
redblood
16 Point


Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 14597
Loc: Lewisburg

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44.0 gr aa5744 under a mmp sabot/ 240 xtp combo
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#2943755 - 09/14/12 07:24 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: redblood]
cecil30-30
16 Point


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 14137
Loc: Morgan Co

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Good luck with yours.. I bought one and am having a time getting it to shoot.I've shot it over 70 times,have tried 5 different sabots,6 different bullets,and 4 different powders and have only found 1 load to shoot under 1.5inchs at 100 yds..Everything else has shot around 3 or 4 inches..Im to the point to where Im thinking of selling it and buying a TC muzzleloader.If your close I have some accurate Arms 5744 that your more than welcome to try. If I don't get rid of mine,im seriously thinking of sending it back to Savage,im fed up with it.May just get a Pac Nor replacement barrel..
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#2943759 - 09/14/12 07:28 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: redblood]
East TN Hunter
4 Point


Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 185
Loc: East TN

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44 gr aa5744 under a Harvestor Black Crush Rib Sabot/ 0.458 Diameter Hornady 300 gr bullet (#4500).

Allow the gun to cool COMPLETELY between shots.

They are legitimate 200 yard plus whitetail guns.

Go here:
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless

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#2943809 - 09/14/12 08:07 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: East TN Hunter]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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You guys care to post some links to the sabots yall are buying
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2943938 - 09/14/12 10:07 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: cecil30-30]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 86705
Loc: Kingston Springs

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 Originally Posted By: cecil30-30
Good luck with yours.. I bought one and am having a time getting it to shoot.I've shot it over 70 times,have tried 5 different sabots,6 different bullets,and 4 different powders and have only found 1 load to shoot under 1.5inchs at 100 yds..Everything else has shot around 3 or 4 inches..Im to the point to where Im thinking of selling it and buying a TC muzzleloader.If your close I have some accurate Arms 5744 that your more than welcome to try. If I don't get rid of mine,im seriously thinking of sending it back to Savage,im fed up with it.May just get a Pac Nor replacement barrel..



you may want to have a gunsmith look at your crown
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#2943940 - 09/14/12 10:08 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Deer Assassin]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 86705
Loc: Kingston Springs

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h4198 250 gn sst


proven at 326 yds
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#2943971 - 09/15/12 12:54 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: East TN Hunter]
quigleysharps4570
4 Point


Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 316
Loc: Kansas

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 Originally Posted By: East TN Hunter
Allow the gun to cool COMPLETELY between shots.


Just curious as to why on God's green earth anyone would want a rifle that they had to let cool completely between shots to get it to shoot?

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#2943973 - 09/15/12 01:20 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: quigleysharps4570]
pressfit
10 Point


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3113
Loc: Giles Co. Tn

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 Originally Posted By: quigleysharps4570
 Originally Posted By: East TN Hunter
Allow the gun to cool COMPLETELY between shots.


Just curious as to why on God's green earth anyone would want a rifle that they had to let cool completely between shots to get it to shoot?

I dont let mine cool down.. I load,shoot,load,shoot,load,shoot.. no issues with a hot barrel here..
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#2943982 - 09/15/12 04:11 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: quigleysharps4570]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: quigleysharps4570
 Originally Posted By: East TN Hunter
Allow the gun to cool COMPLETELY between shots.


Just curious as to why on God's green earth anyone would want a rifle that they had to let cool completely between shots to get it to shoot?


Are you kidding? Doesnt sound like you have invested much time with any.weapon. when a barrel gets hot on any weapon, it doesnt matter if its smokeless, blackpowder, or centerfire. Accuracy is going to degrade.
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2944033 - 09/15/12 07:32 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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Savage guarantees this gun to shoot 1.5" at 100 yards and if it don't then you can send it into them and they will shoot it on their bench. If it don't shoot they will replace the barrel and shoot it again. If it don't shoot they will replace whatever they need to just to get it to shoot. How do I know this? I had my barrel replaced for free by Savage. Now it shoots better than 1" at 100.

I am currently shooting 43gr 4759 and a Barnes Original 300gr bullet in a Harvester Black Crush Rib sabot. Have shot this set up in 90 deg heat and -12 deg and have never had a misfire. Very accurate in my gun.

Another cheaper and plenty great combo is a Hornady XTP 300 gr or 250 gr bullet in a Red Crush Rib sabot and Accurate 5744 powder. Follow the manual powder measurements.

Don't go for max loads right off the bat. Start at the min and go up.

There are a few things that need to be verified on a Savage. Some common ones are the scope base screws to make sure they are not bottoming out. The other is front edge of scope base to make sure it's not touching the lock nut.

Yes, you need to allow the barrel to cool between shots. The heat generated will soften the sabot and your groups will suck if you don't. Many a Savage has been sold because the owner refused to follow this simple rule. Fire the shot, wait about 5 min in decent weather and 10 or more in hot weather. Keep it out of the sun if you can. If hunting, reload and don't worry. I've shot 3 deer in one go round without a bad shot in cooler weather.

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#2944154 - 09/15/12 10:10 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: tasaman]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9818
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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The load I have pretty well settled on is a 300gr. Barnes Origional bullet, orange MMP sabot, and 44gr of AA5744. It has shot pretty good and is great on the terminal end.
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#2944943 - 09/16/12 06:26 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: scn]
East TN Hunter
4 Point


Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 185
Loc: East TN

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Notes on accuracy:

1) Get a tight fitting bullet/sabot combo for you barrel. You want ~40-50 lbs pressure to seat the bullet. Luke sells sample packs:

http://smokelessmz.com/index.html

2) If the barrel gets above ~92F, plastic sabots cannot handle the pressure generated by smokeless powders and you will start to get fliers.

3) Savages are 1.5 MOA guns. If you are only going to be happy with sub MOA, you may want to consider starting with an after market barrel.


Edited by East TN Hunter (09/16/12 06:27 AM)

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#2945031 - 09/16/12 08:50 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: East TN Hunter]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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Thanks for all the advice guys! If i can get 1.5 moa ill be greatly satisfied
_________________________
Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2945066 - 09/16/12 10:05 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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What kind of bullets come with the gun? And what kind of primers do yall prefer, im guessing federal 209a based on my 10 ga handload experience?
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2945122 - 09/16/12 11:51 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
cecil30-30
16 Point


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 14137
Loc: Morgan Co

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You'll get 5 250gr Hornady XTP bullets and 5 MMP black sabots..
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The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson


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#2945222 - 09/16/12 02:34 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: cecil30-30]
East TN Hunter
4 Point


Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 185
Loc: East TN

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I use federal 209A primers.

I hunted last year with the 250 XTPs and shot 2 animals. Good terminal performance. I get 1.5" groups with 250 XTPs/supplied short black sabots/45g AA5744.


Edited by East TN Hunter (09/16/12 02:39 PM)

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#2945349 - 09/16/12 06:29 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: East TN Hunter]
fullstream
8 Point


Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 1490
Loc: tipton

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I use 209a federal.
when I first got it I was shooting aa5744 43gns with barnes 300exp's using sabots that came with the exp's. Had great results. Also tried 300sst's w/ aa5744 44gns and black mmp's. Was able to go in on a group bulk buy of N120 and have found 60gns w/ 300exp's to be sub moa. And when I hunt open fields 58gns N120 and 300sst's is the way to fly also sub 1" groups.I tried the 250 xtp's & sst's but always seemed to get better accuracy w/ 300's.

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#2945466 - 09/16/12 08:00 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: scn]
Deer Assassin
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 86705
Loc: Kingston Springs

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 Originally Posted By: scn
The load I have pretty well settled on is a 300gr. Barnes Origional bullet, orange MMP sabot, and 44gr of AA5744. It has shot pretty good and is great on the terminal end.



good bullet
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#2945581 - 09/16/12 09:20 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: East TN Hunter]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: East TN Hunter
I use federal 209A primers.

I hunted last year with the 250 XTPs and shot 2 animals. Good terminal performance. I get 1.5" groups with 250 XTPs/supplied short black sabots/45g AA5744.


I think i would rather shoot 300 gr. Because i dont have the opportunity at much over 150 yds
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2945665 - 09/17/12 12:04 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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Do you guys shoot yalls at the end of the day to unload even if you are hunting the next day
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2945671 - 09/17/12 03:58 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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And what about synthetic stocks? Anyone seen a big diff in accuracy with synthetic vs wood
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2945688 - 09/17/12 05:09 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2867
Loc: Rhea Co., TN

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I have a syn stock and it is pretty flimsy. But the gun shoots pretty well if you allow it to cool between shots, as has been stated. I get best performance using the 5744, orange MMP sabots, and .458 300gr hornady, but have had success with the 300gr SST (or variant) and the black long sabot. My barrel must be a bit tight though, as the latter combo is VERY hard for me to load if I use the tighter sabot, and the looser sabots that I bought from MMP don't hold up well, leading to keyholing.

Like you, I didn't buy it for a long rnage shooter, but to avoid the nasty cleanup and rusting of BP or substitutes. Also, it is cheaper to shoot in the long run.

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#2945691 - 09/17/12 05:10 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
EastTNHunter
10 Point


Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 2867
Loc: Rhea Co., TN

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 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
Do you guys shoot yalls at the end of the day to unload even if you are hunting the next day


Heck no! There is no need. I leave mine loaded all season if I don't shoot, just remove the cap.

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#2945728 - 09/17/12 06:25 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: EastTNHunter]
pressfit
10 Point


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3113
Loc: Giles Co. Tn

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Mine is still loaded from last year..
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Do you know Jesus as your Savior?don't wait until its too late.You are only one heartbeat away from eternity. You never know when it will be your last. Repent and trust the Lord today as your Savior!

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#2946108 - 09/17/12 11:39 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
barkscraper
Spike


Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 98
Loc: morgan

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I have never shot at a deer with a hot muzzleloader barrel but you never know when one might jump out at the shooting range and I cant get to the woods fast enough before my barrel cools off. He is telling you right about the barrel cooling off so it does not melt the sabot before you shoot I shoot 10 gr n110 with 60gr 4198 250sst black sabot and nothing compares NOTHING Ive owned t/cs and i would never go back even to the knight that a thought i loved
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#2949032 - 09/19/12 01:08 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: barkscraper]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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In my cva i was shooting! 150 gr. Of 777 and a 250 gr. Powerbelt. If the scope i had on it held up do you think it will hold up on the smokeless?
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2949037 - 09/19/12 01:11 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7851
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
If the scope i had on it held up do you think it will hold up on the smokeless?
If it is anything like mine it will. My Savage barely has any recoil at all.
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#2949057 - 09/19/12 01:35 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Andy S.]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: Rockhound
If the scope i had on it held up do you think it will hold up on the smokeless?
If it is anything like mine it will. My Savage barely has any recoil at all.


Good its a swift scope and i really like it. Im gonna clean my cva real good and put it up as a spare
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2950899 - 09/20/12 09:15 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
Boone 58
16 Point


Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 14773
Loc: Food Plot

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#2952470 - 09/22/12 07:47 AM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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Did you guys clean yalls straight out of the box ?
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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#2952969 - 09/22/12 03:23 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: Rockhound]
East TN Hunter
4 Point


Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 185
Loc: East TN

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Just a bore snake down the barrel.
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#2953944 - 09/23/12 02:04 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: East TN Hunter]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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It is recommended that you clean the heck out of the barrel before you do anything with it. It may not be needed but some have come quite dirty from Savage. My stainless gun wasn't all too dirty but it does happen. They are test shot before leaving the factory and not cleaned.
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#2953952 - 09/23/12 02:14 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: tasaman]
tasaman
8 Point


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1078
Loc: Woodlawn, TN

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About your scope question...it depends. I know a few have had luck with simmons and cheap bushnells surviving. I also know some that have destroyed Zeiss and other expensive glass. Those guys are shoot some very stout loads though. You can load the Savage for as much recoil as you can stand. Light loads kick like a 22 and heavy loads that kick like a mule. The average guy wanting to shoot 200 yards doesn't need to worry. The guy wanting to shoot 200 plus with a 350gr and up bullet moving at 2400 fps or faster probably has went though a couple scopes.
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#2954504 - 09/23/12 09:06 PM Re: another savage smokeless post [Re: tasaman]
Rockhound
10 Point


Registered: 04/04/11
Posts: 2838
Loc: Lawrence Co. TN

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If i can get away with it im just gonna shoot the factory load of 4579 and 350,300 gr. Odds are i will never shoot past 100 i think the farthest rifle shot ive ever made is 170yds
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Isaiah 40:31.... Those who wait upon The Lord .....shall renew there strength ......

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