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#2910945 - 08/17/12 09:28 AM Caney Fork Problems Help needed
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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Sorry about the last post. The TWRA commission needs to hear from anyone concerned about congestion, trash, access problems... Please forward any comments to commissioner McMillin at Jeff.mcmillin@tn.gov Thank you
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#2911155 - 08/17/12 12:20 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
MidTennFisher
4 Point


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 183
Loc: Tennessee

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What can they do? Don't get me wrong, I absolutely HATE fishing that river on a weekend afternoon due to the swarms of canoes thanks to Canoe the Caney, the gravelbar crowds that think they're at Miami Beach, and anyone in general who trashes that beautiful river. We don't own the river though (well we sort of do since we pay TWRA to maintain it) and I don't think TWRA can actually put a stop to the people who want to party in the water like they're at a beach nor can they stop 300 canoe trips being sold every Saturday. I absolutely don't fish the Caney on the weekends anymore unless it's early evening or very early morning.
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#2911374 - 08/17/12 03:23 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: MidTennFisher]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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We can ask for more enforcement, enforce the "no parking" signs. Why is it ok for a business to use a TWRA ramp with non licensed (registered) boats, block the gravel bars and tie up ramps? These same people drop off empty trailers and leave them. I guess it would be ok for 10 fisherman to pull vehicles with trailers down on the gravel bar blocking access. Lock the cars and go fishing. They put nothing into the resource by either registration or additional "outfitter" fees. TWRA officers still use up their limited time in checking these folks.....
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#2911451 - 08/17/12 04:41 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9694
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
 Originally Posted By: cmn
We can ask for more enforcement, enforce the "no parking" signs. Why is it ok for a business to use a TWRA ramp with non licensed (registered) boats, block the gravel bars and tie up ramps? These same people drop off empty trailers and leave them. I guess it would be ok for 10 fisherman to pull vehicles with trailers down on the gravel bar blocking access. Lock the cars and go fishing. They put nothing into the resource by either registration or additional "outfitter" fees. TWRA officers still use up their limited time in checking these folks.....


Chris, Why pose the question when you have already been given the legal answer?
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#2911650 - 08/17/12 10:16 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: scn]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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Because just knowing an answer and not trying to pursue a solution is not doing your job to the fullest. Sorry you are a friend but I feel the agency is not paying enough attention to the #1 tailwater in the state.
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#2911670 - 08/17/12 10:54 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
TNhunter
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 4374
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN, Rutherford

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Maybe there are too many fisherman for the kayakers and canoers to be able to enjoy the river. Been on it for the first time in my life this summer in my kayak (5 different days) and dang if the fisherman don't act like they own the river. I try my best to go behind them and avoid them as much as possible but when a guy is fly fishing with a big back cast or what ever fancy term it is or when they're casting to both sides of the river while wading out to chest deep water I make a point to tell them I try to avoid them but if they're basically blocking the path I really don't give a %{#{#{ how close I get to them or their lime. And btw I have a lifetime sportsmans license so don't assume any and all users of the river that aren't fisherman aren't paying their dues for the club.
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"If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns."

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#2911732 - 08/18/12 12:58 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: TNhunter]
CATCHDAWG
10 Point


Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 3773
Loc: Bradley co. TN

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 Originally Posted By: TNhunter
Maybe there are too many fisherman for the kayakers and canoers to be able to enjoy the river. Been on it for the first time in my life this summer in my kayak (5 different days) and dang if the fisherman don't act like they own the river. I try my best to go behind them and avoid them as much as possible but when a guy is fly fishing with a big back cast or what ever fancy term it is or when they're casting to both sides of the river while wading out to chest deep water I make a point to tell them I try to avoid them but if they're basically blocking the path I really don't give a %{#{#{ how close I get to them or their lime. And btw I have a lifetime sportsmans license so don't assume any and all users of the river that aren't fisherman aren't paying their dues for the club.
The Hiawassee on my side of the state is no different. The river belongs to everyone, everyone has a right to enjoy it. I paddle, I fish, sometimes I paddle and fish. People are just gonna have to learn to co-exist it is what it is. SPORTSMEN making a attempt to run others off the river is not a image I care to have...
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#2911744 - 08/18/12 04:37 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: CATCHDAWG]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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Guys I also have a lifetime license. What the main issue is boils down to access. You are correct everyone has a right to the river. I do not believe that anyone has a right to set up tents, drop empty trailers, park vehicles and choke off a gravel bar access to the river. I am glad that you try to use common sense around other users. I NEVER said limit the boaters. I do believe that Anyone using public property for commercial and financial gain ought to have to pay something for the use. This is not a debate about behavior on the river by any user group. I understand the fisherman being frustrated when line after line of watercraft many having water fights, splashing, screaming.... seem not to care who is on the river.
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#2911787 - 08/18/12 07:40 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10524
Loc: Warren Co

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What a great idea! MORE TAXES!!!!

What about a whining tax?

IF the weekend warriors are blocking legal access then there is a legit gripe and TWRA or Sheriff should make them move or ticket them.

IF the outfitters are breaking the law, then the officials should be notified and take appropriate action.

Just because someone isn't doing what I want, doesn't mean there should be ANOTHER law or TAX to punish them.

How about a FLY FISHERMAN tax? If you fly fish the Caney you have to pay an extra $100 since those tiny flies are likely to be swallowed and gill hook trout. That results in higher mortality and they are using MORE of the stocked fish resource?

How about a Bait Slinger tax? For the same reasons as above?

And Boaters should be taxed 3x more since they use the ramp....

Where does the stupid notion that FEES/TAXES are the solution to every problem end ?
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#2911806 - 08/18/12 08:04 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: fishboy1]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10524
Loc: Warren Co

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Just reread my above post and it comes across a little "hot". My apologies.

Before we get all excited and start demanding that the Gubment "do something" imagine this situation.

A friend introduces you to the outdoors, you are hooked and take up fishing. With great excitement you travel across the state with your new boat and fish a new spot.

You arrive early, and after a couple tries, get your boat launched and go park your trailer. The parking lot is mostly empty and you do your best to park your trailer where it will be out of the way. Little do you know that you are parked opposite the "normal" direction which allows maximum spaces. Yep, you are "That goober" who is hogging the parking lot.

You fish, load up and go home.

Upon arriving the next time, there is a line to get in, a booth set up and you have to pay a "user fee". You get on the water late, and grumble about the unfair fees being charged to boaters. The next year when you go to renew your registration, there is an ADDITIONAL $100 tacked on since you as a boater use MORE of the resource... after all its only "fair".

Scenario 2.
Same as above except when you get in from fishing, there is a "boat ramp courtesy and river health" flyer under your wiper. It explains boat launching/trailer parking, fishing/boating courtesy tips, and littering/river health. Some private individual went to the trouble to take 45 minutes to whip up a flyer on their computer, ran 50 copies off at the local KInkos and stuck them under every wiper in the lot after parking THEIR trailer. Total cost $12 and about 2 hours of their life.

Scenario 3.
Guides and or club fishermen agree that things are getting a little out of hand and chip in a few bucks apiece and have a big sign made with ramp procedure, fishing courtesy, and non littering. They get permission to install the signs at the main ramps on the problem tail waters. Total one time cost $100/ per ramp.

Which sounds better? Having GOVERNMENT get in your wallet and boat every time you want to fish/kayak/wade? Or maybe the "higher level users" could take some leadership and help educate the rookies for a better experience for everyone?


Edited by fishboy1 (08/18/12 08:07 AM)
_________________________
If you can't trust people with freedom, how can you trust them with power ?




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#2911855 - 08/18/12 08:59 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: fishboy1]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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I said anyone making money off a public resource. I am a guide so I do include myself. Courtesy seems to be lost on the water by both sides of an equation. Please understand it is not about FISHERMAN versus non fisherman. This is about the fact I was told I am the only one complaining. If this is true then it will die very quickly. I am seeking a sit down with all parties involved, so is the agency. I am trying to see if indeed I am the only one. Please do not make this out to be an attack. I never said limits or hate or keep away. I clean the river up weekly. Every user group leaves trash and is not courteous to the other. Not everyone!! What is wrong with doing what I am asked by calling for comments??
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#2912249 - 08/18/12 06:18 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
waterman
4 Point


Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 167
Loc: roane county

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love the caney but agree hard to fish with all canoes. enjoy the river with my family as boater as well. how bout a daily quota draw? understood it would be hard to police, but how bout minimal quota fee with heavy fines? how bout no fishing 1 week, no recreational boating the next week? might give the overfished areas a little break. tellico has no fishing thursday/ friday yet you can still enjoy the river and camp.I think the caney could use a break overall. not the fishery it was 10 years ago
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#2912313 - 08/18/12 07:46 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: waterman]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9694
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
 Originally Posted By: waterman
love the caney but agree hard to fish with all canoes. enjoy the river with my family as boater as well. how bout a daily quota draw? understood it would be hard to police, but how bout minimal quota fee with heavy fines? how bout no fishing 1 week, no recreational boating the next week? might give the overfished areas a little break. tellico has no fishing thursday/ friday yet you can still enjoy the river and camp.I think the caney could use a break overall. not the fishery it was 10 years ago


It isn't doable by TWRA or TWRC. It would take legislation. Since it is federally controlled waters, I suspect it would take federal legislation.

Good luck on either the state or federal level.
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#2912507 - 08/18/12 10:12 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: scn]
gil1
12 Point


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6339
Loc: Nashville, TN

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It's so weird - Concerning the Caney water quality and regulations - after all those countless hours of meetings and sweat and hard work and the thousands of words I've written and the great partnerships forged between organizations and all the huge successes we never dreamed we could accomplish...

I never saw this one coming. I rarely fish this once great river anymore. I just lost that lovin' feelin'. It reminds me a lot of going to Opryland when I was a kid - lots of riffraff, no relaxation, maybe okay for a kid, but not my relaxing cup of tea anymore.

I've been thinking about this a lot, and in my circle of fishing friends, you bet your azz it's among the most talked about subjects. I know there are a bunch of others pretty upset about it. I don't have an answer that appeases everyone.

The only one I came up with is to have the pleasure boaters put in in the lower river near the ball fields or at Stonewall where the water has warmed a little and there are less trout and fishermen. That's a seven or twelve mile float the boaters could have. I'm sure I'm missing something in that plan that someone will bitch at, but I can't think of anything wrong with it off-hand.

So what do they do out west on those trout destination rivers? I don't recall seeing the leisure boats out there. Are they forbidden on some of those waters? Is there a limit on the number of non-fishing craft the outfitters can put in? Do the canoers have to monetarily support the resource like the fishermen do?

I'm just wondering if there are good solutions we could emulate to make it a more quality experience on the Caney.

Thanks for posting, Chris.

By the way, I forwarded the request to a bunch of folks and wrote Jeff (the Commissioner) an email.
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#2912509 - 08/18/12 10:14 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: scn]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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Quotas and limitations are NOT an option. Hell I am selfish if I could have it my way... I just want to see some kind of solution. Today when the water came up the gravel bar shrank to nothing. With a van and a loaded trailer with 2 trucks there was no room for the 2 empty trailers that were left. This caused a jam up at the ramp. I believe in active loading and unloading but not dropping trailers for hours and setting up camp. Sorry to be a broken record but this is wrong.
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#2912515 - 08/18/12 10:18 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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Thank you for all the comments whether you are on "my side" or not. I think debate is healthy. Sorry if anyone is mad because of this. Thank you to all who are willing to voice an opinion to the TWRA and TWRC. Gil I look forward to teaching your brother so don't give up hope. As a landowner on the river it is like a dagger in my heart....
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#2912573 - 08/19/12 12:10 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
TNhunter
TnDeer Old Timer
10 Point


Registered: 11/01/99
Posts: 4374
Loc: Murfreesboro, TN, Rutherford

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Are you sure there isn't an ulterior motive here. I remember a nice spot to hunt at lock 5 that due to the voice of basically a single landowner it got shut down for originally all hunting and then they opened it back up as youth only. Landowner has a nice sanctuary joining his land now.
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TNhunter


"If there is unrest, the government will seize all the registered guns."

"You need guns and ammo first then everything else."

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#2912659 - 08/19/12 08:13 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: TNhunter]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

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No ulterior motive here. The Corps owns the gravel bar. Twra manages or owns the ramps. No way to make it private
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#2912727 - 08/19/12 09:48 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: cmn]
fishboy1
16 Point


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 10524
Loc: Warren Co

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Seems to me the problem is education.

Goobers at the ramp happen everywhere. We used to stop at the public boat ramp on the way home from surfing to watch the trainwreck on Saturday afternoons.

A little education and courtesy would have avoided 70% of the stupidity that went on.

Its amazing what happens when people believe the same thing. Educate people that you DONT camp out on the boat ramp or turn around to load/unload your boat. You DONT park like a goober and block up the parking lot and turn around. You DONT litter and crowd other people on the river. You DONT wade out into the only navigable part of the river, then get pissed when people have to crowd you to get by.

All this information could be passed on by a cheap flyer at the boat ramps made on an office copier for very little money. I'm betting the canoe rental places would be happy to hand one to their customers with their receipt.

No government needed. No restrictions, fees, or fines needed. No closed boat ramps, no canoe only days, no fishing only days....

Now all that is necessary is for someone with a vested interest to take leadership. Ask around for some input. Mock up a flyer. See if TWRA or Corps would be willing to chip in for some signs, flyers, and a plastic flyer holder at the problem ramps. If they won't chip in, ask the pros, clubs, outfitters if they would all participate. Will cost a heck of a lot less than having Fees/Taxes/Fines, closed river days and the like.
_________________________
If you can't trust people with freedom, how can you trust them with power ?




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#2912828 - 08/19/12 11:49 AM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: fishboy1]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9694
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

content Online
 Originally Posted By: fishboy1
Seems to me the problem is education.

Goobers at the ramp happen everywhere. We used to stop at the public boat ramp on the way home from surfing to watch the trainwreck on Saturday afternoons.

A little education and courtesy would have avoided 70% of the stupidity that went on.

Its amazing what happens when people believe the same thing. Educate people that you DONT camp out on the boat ramp or turn around to load/unload your boat. You DONT park like a goober and block up the parking lot and turn around. You DONT litter and crowd other people on the river. You DONT wade out into the only navigable part of the river, then get pissed when people have to crowd you to get by.

All this information could be passed on by a cheap flyer at the boat ramps made on an office copier for very little money. I'm betting the canoe rental places would be happy to hand one to their customers with their receipt.

No government needed. No restrictions, fees, or fines needed. No closed boat ramps, no canoe only days, no fishing only days....

Now all that is necessary is for someone with a vested interest to take leadership. Ask around for some input. Mock up a flyer. See if TWRA or Corps would be willing to chip in for some signs, flyers, and a plastic flyer holder at the problem ramps. If they won't chip in, ask the pros, clubs, outfitters if they would all participate. Will cost a heck of a lot less than having Fees/Taxes/Fines, closed river days and the like.


David, contrary to allegations by some that TWRA has turned a blind eye to the Caney issues and done nothing, Director Carter put together a working group with LE, boating, biologists, I&E, etc. over a month ago to study the issues and make recommendations back to the staff on specific actions to address the problems.

They met this past week, and it is my understanding that your suggestions on education and signage are high on the list.

Thanks for a well-thought out analysis of good options for the situation.


Edited by scn (08/19/12 12:29 PM)
_________________________
Life is too short to fish with a dead cricket.

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#2913293 - 08/19/12 08:12 PM Re: Caney Fork Problems Help needed [Re: scn]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 78
Loc: nashville,tn

Offline
I offered free flyers to one of the companies who drops off trailers. They told me no thanks, no interest. I am supposed to be part of a group meeting. I was asked to solicit comments be they good or bad. No one has been a bigger champion of the agency than myself over the years. I spent between 15-20 days last year alone fighting for the TWRC when they faced extinction. I have helped provide boats for studies and law enforcement. I am currently trying to come up with funds to help pay overtime for extra officer's projects. I am a friend to the Agency but I wanted to prove that I am not the only one concerned. I will not stand for my loyalty to be questioned in a public forum without being able to state my position.
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