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#2887412 - 07/27/12 06:49 AM Riverbank Relics
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 10/23/99
Posts: 9029
Loc: McMinn County

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I run into a lot of people that seem to think it is legal to look for and pick arrowheads up off the TVA river banks and such.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/7/24/230927/5-Convicted-For-Disturbing-Artifacts.aspx

Thought I'd post this link up to show I ain't kidding about this stuff! When they passed the ARPA as law, it made it illegal to do so on govt owned land...and TVA land IS govt land. You can't dig for artifacts, dive for artifacts, or even pick one up if you were walking down the bank fishing, and saw one laying there. If it's on TVA land or govt owned land, it is protected. They will hit you with the same misdemeanor fine that they would if you were to go to Gettysburg Ntl Battlefield and start metal detecting.

BE CAREFUL out there folks. I love finding relics but it seems like every hobby that I enjoy, that someone is trying to put an end to people doing them. PETA wants us to not be able to hunt and fish, and the Archies don't want people looking for relics that aren't Archies.

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#2887660 - 07/27/12 10:50 AM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: Crow Terminator]
Bigmonts
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Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 982
Loc: Brighton, Tn.

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wow I did not know that.
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#2887981 - 07/27/12 04:26 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: Bigmonts]
geezer
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Registered: 10/15/10
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Yep, you had best be careful IF you choose to do so. And they have heard every excuse known to man so carrying a fishing pole wont work.
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#2888197 - 07/27/12 09:12 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: geezer]
W C
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Registered: 02/02/02
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Loc: Alabama

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I'm pretty sure that 3rd case was from the mid to late 90's since I saw pictures and evidence in the TVA Police building in Muscle Shoals, AL when I worked there from '95 to '99. And now there is no TVA Police even though they are badly needed.
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#2888282 - 07/27/12 11:14 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: W C]
geezer
6 Point


Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 978
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Its the TWRA they have to look out for. They do there job. But I bet some of em have a wonderful collection of artifacts \:\)
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#2889544 - 07/29/12 02:34 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: geezer]
Twinshooter
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Registered: 10/12/01
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Loc: Collierville, TN. USA

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I thought "We the People" were the government, I surly thought by paying taxes that the parks were all of ours.
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#2890480 - 07/30/12 12:36 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: Crow Terminator]
Tennrock
4 Point


Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 180
Loc: Wayne County

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 Originally Posted By: Crow Terminator
or even pick one up if you were walking down the bank fishing, and saw one laying there. If it's on TVA land or govt owned land, it is protected. They will hit you with the same misdemeanor fine that they would if you were to go to Gettysburg Ntl Battlefield and start metal detecting.


WRONG!

All of the cases you cited were of people digging or diving for artifacts. Picking one up on the surface is legal.


ARPA 16 U.S.C. 470ee(g),
Removal of arrowheads located on ground surface
(g) Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shall be deemed
applicable to any person with respect to the removal of
arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.



ARPA act of 1979 was enacted during the Carter administration and Carter was a arrowhead collector and insisted that the above section (g) be added.

I have heard of collectors being harassed by over-zealous TVA police & TWRA who were not even aware of the exception, which is why I keep a copy in the boat.

Now, if you dig, rake or dive for artifacts or are in possession of human remains, you are going to get in big trouble .

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#2890660 - 07/30/12 03:24 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: Tennrock]
robg606
4 Point


Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 442
Loc: Burns, Tennessee

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Wrong! To Tenn Rock...You cannot even pick up a relic on FEDERAL land. Trust me.....I know that for that fact. Also TWRA does not give a hoot nor enforces relic hunting (I know a few that collect just like me) but they do enforce toe digging for mussels...but you are correct about the remains and digging/scraping.
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#2890700 - 07/30/12 04:20 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: robg606]
Tennrock
4 Point


Registered: 03/09/12
Posts: 180
Loc: Wayne County

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Here it is in black & white:

Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979

(3) The term “public lands” means—
(A) lands which are owned and administered by the
United States as part of—
(i) the national park system,
(ii) the national wildlife refuge system, or
(iii) the national forest system; and
(B) all other lands the fee title to which is held by the
United States, other than lands on the Outer Continental
Shelf
Section 6
(a) No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise
alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage,
or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource
located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity
is pursuant to a permit issued under section 4 of this Act
(b) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport,
receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange any archaeological
resource if such resource was excavated or removed
from public lands or Indian lands n of Federal law.
(c) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport,
receive, or offer to sell, purchase, or exchange, in interstate
of foreign commerce, any archaeological resource excavated,
removed, sold, purchased, exchanged, transported,
or received in violation of any provision, rule, regulation,
ordinance, or permit in effect under State or local law.
(d) Any person who knowingly violates, or counsels, procures,
solicits, or employs any other person to violate, any
prohibition contained in subsection (a), (b), or (c) of this
section shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than
$10,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both:
Provided, however, That if the commercial or archaeological
value of the archaeological resources involved and the
cost of restoration and repair of such resources exceeds
the sum of $500, such person shall be fined not more than
$20,000 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. In
the case of a second or subsequent such violation upon conviction
such person shall be fined not more than $100,000,
or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(e),
Effective date
(e) The prohibitions contained in this section shall take
effect on October 31, 1979 [the date of the enactment of this
Act].
16 U.S.C. 470ee(f),
Prospective application
(f) Nothing in subsection (b)(1) of this section shall be
deemed applicable to any person with respect to any
archaeological resource which was in the lawful possession
of such person prior to October 31, 1979.
16 U.S.C. 470ee(g),Removal of arrowheads located on ground surface
(g) Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shall be deemed
applicable to any person with respect to the removal of
arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.


 Originally Posted By: robg606
...You cannot even pick up a relic on FEDERAL land. Trust me.....I know that for that fact.


I don't know your facts, but would like to hear them. There is no way a ticket, fine or arrest would hold up in court unless there is a new or local law I don't know about.
Again, I have heard of collectors being harassed by law enforcement who did not know of part (g) of the act.

Do you know of anyone ticketed or arrested for picking up a arrowhead from the surface ? If so, they have a lawsuit.

The ARPA was enacted by our Government to protect our cultural resources, but in fact the Government (TVA) has done more to destroy more of our cultural resources than anyone, with the building of dams and the raising & lowering of lake levels. Picking up a arrowhead that has been exposed by erosion, floods, farming, etc. does not cause us to loose any cultural information because that arrowhead is out of context.


Edited by Tennrock (07/30/12 04:29 PM)

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#2891004 - 07/30/12 09:50 PM Re: Riverbank Relics [Re: Tennrock]
Crow Terminator
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 10/23/99
Posts: 9029
Loc: McMinn County

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Taken from the TVA website:

Am I allowed to collect artifacts or relics from TVA land?

The Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) makes it illegal to excavate archaeological sites on federal property, which includes TVA land, without a research permit. Although there are no penalties under this act for removing arrowheads that you find on the ground, these artifacts are still considered federal property and you can be charged with Theft of Government Property if found to be in possession of artifacts taken from TVA property. It’s important to understand that artifacts by themselves do not tell us anything about people of the past. We need to know the context of the artifact—where it was found, for example, and what other items were near it—in order for it all to make sense. If you have discovered something that may be an artifact, the best thing to do is leave it in place.

---------------

In the original context, ARPA was meant to only curb the DIGGING of artifacts on federal land. That's why it says there are no penalties for picking them up on the surface from erosion and such, on govt owned land, which includes TVA property. BUT then says the artifacts are considered federal property and that you can be charged with theft of govt property if they are found in your possession. That could go either way for you in court. So I guess that's their way of saying you can pick them up, look at them, hold them, but better not keep them unless you want charged with theft.

I'm not going to be the guinea pig to challenge it in court for a stupid rock, with the penalty being me getting a misdemeanor slapped on my record. The original 1979 law does say you can pick them up if you aren't digging for them....but it's the 2nd part to that, that scares me.

If you are going to do it, a person would be VERY wise to carry a printed copy of the law itself with it highlighted about it not including surface finds due to erosion....just as long as you're not digging for them.

My thoughts about it are pretty simple. If they were so doggone concerned about not destroying the historical integrity of the sites...they shouldn't have built lakes over top of them.

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