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#285785 - 07/02/07 01:04 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: BSK]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4318
Loc: Franklin Tn

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I hope he doesn't stick to that pattern so you can get a chance at him. How old do you think he is? He looks to be over 4.5 to me.
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#285787 - 07/02/07 01:05 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: BSK]
Mathews Hunter
12 Point


Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 6592
Loc: Southern Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
Radar,

I think this guy is doing fairly well...




That's what I'm talking about! Nice deer!
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#285793 - 07/02/07 01:12 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: Mathews Hunter]
Chris Tripp
10 Point


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 3762
Loc: Brush Creek, TN

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He has the body characteristics of a fully mature deer, not just 4.5. His legs look too short for his body, sway back, and where his neck joins his body looks a little thick and stocky, and its still summer! Chances of seeing him in daylight are very slim.
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#285800 - 07/02/07 01:29 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: Chris Tripp]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4318
Loc: Franklin Tn

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Yep that's what I think Chris he looks older than 4.5, more like 6.5 to me.
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#285920 - 07/02/07 04:13 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: 156p&y]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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Yup, I think he is fully mature.
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#285925 - 07/02/07 04:16 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: 156p&y]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 156p&y
I hope he doesn't stick to that pattern so you can get a chance at him. How old do you think he is? He looks to be over 4.5 to me.


We generally don't lose as many of our summer resident bucks as we used to. But that is probably because of improved habitat. Last year we only lost 1 of the 7 summer resident older bucks at the seasonal shift from summer to fall, and then immediately gained two new older bucks at that shift point (usually marked by antler velvet shedding).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#286011 - 07/02/07 06:01 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: BSK]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4318
Loc: Franklin Tn

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That's interesting b/c we are seeing the samething. Anything 2-3 seems to wander off more than the fully mature deer 4+. I think it has alot to do also with habitat improvement but I'm beginning to wonder if herd dynamics play a bigger role than habitat improvement. We are seeing more and more older bucks yearly especially since we have gotten strict on any buck harvest. The big thing we have going for us is good neighbors that are on the same page. We do have some landowners around us that really put a damper on alot of the young bucks but I think they don't have a substantial impact to hurt us extrememly bad. Now I know with herd dynamics that the more mature deer force each other to compete more for breeding rights but will it also tend to draw as a magnet and help keep those older deer from moving off. I have always felt like mature bucks are much more homebodies than younger bucks and tend to increase that trait as they grow older. Aww heck you just got my wheels turning and may have no idea what I'm trying to say or ask. ;\)
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#286672 - 07/03/07 07:12 AM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: 156p&y]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 65979
Loc: Nashville, TN

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156p&y,

I agree to a certain extent. I firmly believe that "good herd dynamics" is somehow "attractive" to deer, for whatever reason. That is the only thing I can think of that would explain why managed areas seem to draw so many other deer into them, even if the habitat has not been improved. Why else would so many yearling bucks and even older bucks shift into these areas, even when the habitat of the managed property is identical to all the surrounding properties?

However, when it comes to mature bucks, I think habitat plays one critical role, and that is good security cover. From what I've seen, good-quality cover is an absolute must for attracting and holding mature bucks. Before we had good cover, we practiced QDM and increased food resources for many years, and this resulted in a huge increase in 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks. But it wasn't until we produce good-quality cover that we finally began to see multiple mature bucks using the property. And the difference was so dramatic it was like flipping a switch.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#287348 - 07/03/07 05:02 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: BSK]
156p&y
10 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 4318
Loc: Franklin Tn

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I agree about cover, after learning alot from you on how to lay out property I would also agree that too much cover or too large of an area of cover can also kill you. Yeah it will hold big deer but often too well. We have a neighbor right below us that has about 20-25 acres of what use to be fieldland and good field land. It was great for hay fields nice and flat, but when that property changed hands about 7 years ago it has not been cut since and is absolutely killing us. It's so thick you can't hardly walk through it and the bush is now proably 30 feet in some areas with cedars and mock orange trees (satan trees I call them). It holds big deer very well but they are unkillable in that kind of junk, you can't see more than 5 yards in most places. The problem it gives us is when hunting season rolls around and the deer get pressured the old deer know that area has no pressure and just simply move in for the season. We have increased our sanctuaries all across the property to help combat the problem and it has helped a little. The biggest thing I've done is go in and try to make; I guess you could call travel sanctuaries. What I've done is increase thick bands of cover that run through the property to help get the older deer to feel more confident at moving in daylight and just this year we have cleared out several clearings in these bands to plant fall food plots to actually hunt. In the past we left this cover mostly alone due to it's thickness and the deer bedded in it. I've also concentrated 80% of our food plots to the smack dab middle of the farm in hopes that we can catch some of these nocturnal giants coming back in the mornings to bed. This year we have done more work for our whitetails than ever before, and I hope we see results. I guess for the last 3 weeks me and one of my hunting buddies have worked on average for 3 hours a day after we get off work just on food plots and their layouts. Oh yeah most of our property is open virgin timber that's why I felt like we needed the need for thick travel coridors
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#287442 - 07/03/07 06:27 PM Re: Did the late spring drought do much harm? [Re: Chris Tripp]
richmanbarbeque
16 Point


Registered: 07/17/03
Posts: 12784
Loc: Middle, Tn

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 Originally Posted By: Chris Tripp
He has the body characteristics of a fully mature deer, not just 4.5. His legs look too short for his body, sway back, and where his neck joins his body looks a little thick and stocky, and its still summer! Chances of seeing him in daylight are very slim.


Chris, I would bet a paycheck This is the same deer I had a chance at last year. I seen him later in the season and around 8ish in the morning. He was wore down a little more than what the current pics show. As soon as I seen him I knew he was a VERY MATURE deer. BSK may know the distance from our lease to his property but If I was to guess only a few miles as the crow flies. Some one needs to check his jawbone for age. ;\)

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