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#2857720 - 06/23/12 10:36 AM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: Andy S.]
Jugfish
4 Point


Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 231
Loc: Corbin, KY

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Come up with a program to encourage the old timers to retire and then hire the best talent possible after doing national searches for the best people. Then, disempower the WMA managers and make them all actually do something.
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#2857783 - 06/23/12 12:30 PM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: Diehard Hunter]
scn
14 Point


Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 9298
Loc: Brentwood, TN US

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
The other thread about what the state should not be doing brought up an interesting point. I think ALL users of our public lands should be required to purchase a hunting and fishing license or a user permit. Many user groups use our state lands without footing any of the bill for managing those lands.


As a hunter and fisherman, it also bothers me that other groups get a free ride on WMAS. However, here are some other things to add to the equation:

1. TWRA does not own all of the WMA land we help manage. In many cases the land is owned by another governmental entity. It is doubtful that TWRA would be allowed to require licenses on those lands. If a special permit was generated, it is doubtful that all of any money generated would go to TWRA.

2. These groups that don't pay have many "wants and needs". For example, the horse riders want trails, watering facilites, corrals, etc. to make for a better experience for them. As it now stands, it is pretty easy to tell them that the agency doesn't have the money to put such facilites in. Since they are not contributing funds, they don't have much room to gripe and run to legislators to demand such.

Once they are on a level playing field with hunters and fishermen for required licenses or permits, you will see such demands escalate and intensify. And, IMO, if they are equal payers, there will be legislators that will support their demands for such facilites.

So, the 1000# gorilla question is do they bring in more money in licenses or permits than what it costs TWRA to build and maintain hiking/riding trails, observation platforms, bathrooms, corrals, water supplies, etc. And, remember that TWRA may not be able to require such permits on many WMAs that are not owned by the agency. IMO, it would result in an overall net loss in funds to TWRA.

3. Once they become paying stakeholders, they will want and expect an equal voice in the uses of the WMAs. When they go to legislators requesting a couple of weekends in the fall where there is not hunting so they don't have to worry about getting shot, then as equal paying stakeholders they will increasingly be listened to. I, unfortunately, can see scenarios where hunters will be adversely affected.

The user fee concept has been repeatedly staffed by TWRA over the years. We have staff that that are in favor of such fees and better accomadating other user groups. I remain opposed because IMO it will result in a net loss of funds to TWRA and would cause increasing conflicts with other user groups where hunters could come out on the short in.

Be careful what you wish for.


Edited by scn (06/23/12 02:31 PM)
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#2857790 - 06/23/12 12:35 PM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: scn]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 64196
Loc: Nashville, TN

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 Originally Posted By: scn
Once they are on a level playing field wih hunters and fishermen for required licenses or permits, you will see such demands escalate and intensify. And, IMO, if they are equal payers, there will be legislators that will support their demands for such facilites.

So, the 1000# gorilla question is do they bring in more money in licenses or permits than what it costs TWRA to build and maintain hiking/riding trails, observation platforms, bathrooms, corrals, water supplies, etc. And, remember that TWRA may not be able to require such permits on many WMAs that are not owned by the agency. IMO, it would result in an overall loss in funds to TWRA.


Be careful what you wish for.


Fascinating information and good points.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#2857816 - 06/23/12 01:26 PM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: BSK]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7608
Loc: Atoka, TN

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
..... good points.
x2. Thanks for chiming in Steve, good info.
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Andy S.

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#2858216 - 06/24/12 08:44 AM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: Andy S.]
easy45
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Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 28194
Loc: Chester County

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I like how things are and I definitely don't want just one season, I like being in the woods for alittle while with no rifles, and I do gun hunt also just enjoy the changes of pace
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#2858279 - 06/24/12 11:17 AM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 11736
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Diehard Hunter
The other thread about what the state should not be doing brought up an interesting point. I think ALL users of our public lands should be required to purchase a hunting and fishing license or a user permit. Many user groups use our state lands without footing any of the bill for managing those lands.
Some of these are state forests that the TWRA might not be able to charge for but there are some, Catoosa in particular, that the TWRA owns and should be able to charge an access fee to people using it.
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




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#2858291 - 06/24/12 11:58 AM Re: What Should The STATE be Doing That It Is Not Doin [Re: Beekeeper]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7608
Loc: Atoka, TN

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FWIW, I read where TWRA manages or co-manages 1,499,739 acres of land, of which they own 464,869 acres. In essence, TWRA owns approximately 1/3 of what they manage.
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Andy S.

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