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#2851410 - 06/14/12 07:56 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: Headhunter]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4080
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Headhunter
102, less than a week after gun season closes where we hunt in KY (and it is just like you said, a war) the deer start showing back up. In Tennessee it happens also, but we shut our deer down for 2 months. I have hunted in different states and in many different areas and conditions. I have helped cull does in many places. Gun pressure affects deer to some extent and it will even make does go nocturnal and be ultra wary. I am not against gun hunting in anyway, I love it. I spend way to much money on guns, reloading and optics, but anyone can see the effect and a long gun season is not good for anything other than pressuring deer. Much of Tennessee just seeing deer gets difficult after the first of December. I do not care about other states or care to be like them, but I believe we would nothing but benefit by giving the deer a rest.

I know you are the world's greatest hunter and you can kill any buck you want anytime you want, I get it. Not everyone is like a legend like you are. With the number of hunters and the pressure on the deer some kind of a rest cannot be bad. I would much rather have a shorter season where deer are visible than a 2 month season that is useless for 90 percent of it.
[i][/i][u][/u]

HH,
You are too kind. Such flattery. Your kindness and charming personality are exceeded ONLY by your good looks and EXTREME intelligence. And yet, we barely know each other. And already you have picked up on my prowess in the deer woods. How insightful of you.

Seriously though, if hunters could just understand how there are deer, SMALL in body and ANTLER size, that are tremendous trophies in some circles. For example, the Coues deer. And at one time, the Key deer.

Similarly, hunters who wish to fill their tags with trophy caliber animals should understand that in certain areas of the country, a real trophy may be a 3.5 year old 6 point that has survived 3 hunting seasons, countless hunter encounters, and vehicle traffic. I often find these high pressured public deer MUCH more difficult to pattern and arrow than their rut crazed, northern, older counterparts.
Does degree of difficulty make the hunt, and therfore the kill, more of a challenge?
If so, does it not make sense then, that it should also make a worthy trophy?

Isn't a trophy MORE than just a score sheet and a set of horns?

Isn't the degree of difficulty, and the success rate for any hunter with that degree of difficulty deer have more to do with skill level than antler score?

In no way, in ANY face to face discussion with another hunter, would I EVER suggest that putting age on a buck would not improve his odds at growing more bone. But I will say that it is not certain that the older buck WILL grow more bone IF the other needs are not met as well.

And I will ALWAYS say, that older deer, ESPECIALLY in PUBLIC hunting areas, will be HARDER to see, and KILL.

102
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#2851416 - 06/14/12 08:04 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: 102]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4095
Loc: Hardin, Co.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 102
 Originally Posted By: 8 points or better


102
How many mature (4.5+) bucks have you killed in the last five years?


I am not sure why this matters. But I am sure you can do a search and find them somewhere on here. There are a few pictures floating around.

If you ask because you sincerely want to know, and would like to discuss the area that you hunt for tips and possible ideas that may help you, then PM me and we'll visit on the net.

Otherwise, it is too much chest thumping for no reason and little good will come of it.

102



 Originally Posted By: 102


But in all this, there are a few things of which I am certain...

1-CONSISTENT success, year in and year out, is MOSTLY about one's ability to KNOW what areas to begin looking at and then scouting. Rather than trying to change state or local laws, that ultimately will do nothing to improve overall success rates, hunters should adapt to changing conditions, pressures, weather, and GEOGRAPHY. Kinda like deer do, in order to be CONSISTENTLY successful. HUNT THEM WHERE THEY ARE! Rather than trying to grow them where they are not, and probably will not be in your life.




This is why I ask. You tell everyone what it takes to be consistent at killing mature bucks, but are you able to do it yourself.

How many mature bucks have you killed in the last five years? Are you doing it consistently (every year)?

I sincerely want to know because if you are killing mature bucks every year, I will listen to what you have to say. If your not killing them every year then your just blowing smoke up everyone's rear, trying to tell them how its done.
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold

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#2851456 - 06/14/12 09:01 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 4015
Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

Offline
I may be mistaken, but there are not any Keys or Coues deer in Tennessee. I would love to hunt either one and be dang proud to kill one from all I have read about them. Tennessee has potential, so much no one even realizes. Quite a few are already here, but hunting vampires sure is tough.
_________________________
Patron Lifetime NRA member

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#2851462 - 06/14/12 09:10 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Poser
Mud Dauber
16 Point


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 13475
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 8 POINTS OR BETTER
 Originally Posted By: 102
 Originally Posted By: 8 points or better


102
How many mature (4.5+) bucks have you killed in the last five years?


I am not sure why this matters. But I am sure you can do a search and find them somewhere on here. There are a few pictures floating around.

If you ask because you sincerely want to know, and would like to discuss the area that you hunt for tips and possible ideas that may help you, then PM me and we'll visit on the net.

Otherwise, it is too much chest thumping for no reason and little good will come of it.

102



 Originally Posted By: 102


But in all this, there are a few things of which I am certain...

1-CONSISTENT success, year in and year out, is MOSTLY about one's ability to KNOW what areas to begin looking at and then scouting. Rather than trying to change state or local laws, that ultimately will do nothing to improve overall success rates, hunters should adapt to changing conditions, pressures, weather, and GEOGRAPHY. Kinda like deer do, in order to be CONSISTENTLY successful. HUNT THEM WHERE THEY ARE! Rather than trying to grow them where they are not, and probably will not be in your life.




This is why I ask. You tell everyone what it takes to be consistent at killing mature bucks, but are you able to do it yourself.

How many mature bucks have you killed in the last five years? Are you doing it consistently (every year)?

I sincerely want to know because if you are killing mature bucks every year, I will listen to what you have to say. If your not killing them every year then your just blowing smoke up everyone's rear, trying to tell them how its done.


Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 102 does not kill mature bucks every year (honestly, I couldn't tell you if he has or not, but I do highly respect his opinion and skill level). This being the case, do you deny that consistent success on mature bucks in TN is about one's ability to identify where mature bucks are and hunt them appropriately? Do you then conclude that the best way to kill mature bucks consistently is to lobby for a change in state and local laws?
_________________________
It doesn't have to be fun to be fun.

Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive.

Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy.

http://www.GoCarnivore.com

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#2851478 - 06/14/12 09:34 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: Poser]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4095
Loc: Hardin, Co.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Poser
 Originally Posted By: 8 POINTS OR BETTER
 Originally Posted By: 102
 Originally Posted By: 8 points or better


102
How many mature (4.5+) bucks have you killed in the last five years?


I am not sure why this matters. But I am sure you can do a search and find them somewhere on here. There are a few pictures floating around.

If you ask because you sincerely want to know, and would like to discuss the area that you hunt for tips and possible ideas that may help you, then PM me and we'll visit on the net.

Otherwise, it is too much chest thumping for no reason and little good will come of it.

102



 Originally Posted By: 102


But in all this, there are a few things of which I am certain...

1-CONSISTENT success, year in and year out, is MOSTLY about one's ability to KNOW what areas to begin looking at and then scouting. Rather than trying to change state or local laws, that ultimately will do nothing to improve overall success rates, hunters should adapt to changing conditions, pressures, weather, and GEOGRAPHY. Kinda like deer do, in order to be CONSISTENTLY successful. HUNT THEM WHERE THEY ARE! Rather than trying to grow them where they are not, and probably will not be in your life.




This is why I ask. You tell everyone what it takes to be consistent at killing mature bucks, but are you able to do it yourself.

How many mature bucks have you killed in the last five years? Are you doing it consistently (every year)?

I sincerely want to know because if you are killing mature bucks every year, I will listen to what you have to say. If your not killing them every year then your just blowing smoke up everyone's rear, trying to tell them how its done.


Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 102 does not kill mature bucks every year (honestly, I couldn't tell you if he has or not, but I do highly respect his opinion and skill level). This being the case, do you deny that consistent success on mature bucks in TN is about one's ability to identify where mature bucks are and hunt them appropriately? Do you then conclude that the best way to kill mature bucks consistently is to lobby for a change in state and local laws?





You definitely have to hunt mature bucks were they are at.

And if we lowered the buck limit there would be more mature bucks in the herd. The more mature bucks in the herd, the more mature bucks hunters will kill.
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold

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#2851576 - 06/15/12 06:05 AM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4080
Loc: Tennessee

Offline
8 points,
Asking me how many mature bucks I have killed in the past 5 seasons is probably not a good reference or standard to either what my skill level is, or degree of difficulty in hunting mature bucks. I have purposely added a bow to the mix to make it not only more challenging, but also enjoyable. My first deer in 1981, and my 200th kill last year were all with a bow. I have not used a gun in years. Had I been carrying a gun, several of the mature bucks out of bow shot might have had a different day.
Also, I chose to hunt mostly public land. Not because I can't afford private, but because I enjoy moving around from County to County and State to State.
But I do have one advantage most don't enjoy, TIME. I hunt a bunch each year. If I did not, I would probably be REALLY FAT and out of shape, instead of just being fat. For the past several years I have averaged about 4 hunts (sits on stand) per kill. Last year I sat on stand 48 times.

In (January) of 2010, I took a couple of my best bucks to meet TWRA's Ben Layton, in Crossville (I think). He scored them for me. Both were over 4.5. One is in the Registry with a pic from Hamilton County in 2009. The other was from 2006 or 07, can't remember off the top of my head and too lazy to look it up. I had not had any others scored at that point and was disappointed to find out how the scoring system worked. (deductions for not having symetry? Are you kidding?) It takes a WHOLE BUNCH of antler, or a lot of side to side perfection to score over 150).
That trip to Crossville was a turning point for me. After having those two scored, I realized that I would most likely never kill a bigger buck. Even in Southern Illinois. Especially in Tennessee. I had hit the Lottery.
So I took the lesson on how to score deer, home with me that day. And scored my other bucks. I have at least 2 more that will book P/Y. And one more that is too close for me to say for sure. In 2010, it cost 35 dollars per P/Y entry. I have spent too much on mounts and already 70 dollars on P/Y entry fees. That is enough.
Since that day in 2010, and since the hunting season of 2009, I have become more relaxed. I now hunt with MUCH less intensity than before. I don't pay nearly the attention to scent as I once did. I simply watch the wind and try not to touch anything in the woods. I also scout in Jan-March. Not anywhere near the season. And from the road where possible. I also am much more willing to take that 3.5 year old 115 inch buck in an area where I know P/Y bucks exist because I just feel like it at the time. Not because I am trophy hunting. Though I may regret it as a P/Y shows up under my stand later while on a meat hunt.

But it is all good. In fact, great. I never really set out to be a "trophy" hunter. Just a hunter who enjoyed family, fellowship and the experience.

So to re-phrase your question, if I may, how many mature bucks have I killed in the 5 years prior to 2010 season (2005-2009)? 5 for sure, one questionable ("tweener" probably) and I put my son on a GREAT buck last season he got to arrow that was a GREAT representative for that part of Tennessee. And i must also mention the one that still pains me today because I MISSED. As of this date, he is the biggest buck that I have missed. He was a good one.

I patterned him for two days after having found his sign the January before. He was DIALED in to this ridge side in a honeysuckle patch. I waited for the wind, moved in one morning before daylight and waited. Just after day break I caught movement under the canopy of yellow maple leaves as his legs were carrying him to bed. At 27 yards he stepped into an opening as I bleated him to stop. My arrow hit him RIGHT in the ball socket of his right front leg. It was not a shot that killed him anytime soon. I never found him. I doubt I killed him.
Seems that some misses I remember better than some kills. I think they affect me more. That would have been a GREAT, mature trophy. I am sure he was P/Y. I think that was in 2007.

I don't want to do too much chest thumping here. Many will read this and take it for what it is worth. Others will criticize and question. My attitude is to answer you in a public way because you need me to give you something that gives me "credibility". Hopefully this will. If it does not, then so be it. In the end, it really does not matter. We are just two.

But trust me when I say this. There are huntable numbers of mature, old, bucks available RIGHT now all over Tennessee. But they are NOT EVERYWHERE we hunt. they are migrant, changing, very hard to predict, and extremely good at evading man.
A hunter would be smart to adjust his expectations to fit not only what is a good representative for the area in which he hunts, but also his wallet, his skill set, and most importantly, his time.

102
_________________________
God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#2851611 - 06/15/12 07:35 AM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: 102]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4095
Loc: Hardin, Co.

Offline
Thanks for the response 102. I respect that you have got it done with a stick and string.
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold

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#2851791 - 06/15/12 12:34 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Headhunter
10 Point


Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 4015
Loc: LaVergne, TN USA

Offline
Andy, my opinion has changed because of what I have seen in Tennessee.
_________________________
Patron Lifetime NRA member

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#2851794 - 06/15/12 12:36 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: Headhunter]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

Offline
OK. What have you seen?
_________________________
Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#2851949 - 06/15/12 06:02 PM Re: Poll on deer hunting activity [Re: Andy S.]
muddyboots
12 Point


Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 7396
Loc: savannah, tn., usa

Offline
I know one guy who kills bigger deer than everyone in my county. He has an 80 acre lease. Is he a great deer hunter? Personally id call him average but he spends most all of m/l and rifle season hunting. I asked him one day why he thought he killed so many big bucks. He said "i dont shoot them when they are young". True that!
_________________________
X Force is Bad!
Let em go and let em grow!
There is a difference in a turkey killer and a turkey hunter!

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