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#2756152 - 02/14/12 01:33 PM deer farming vote postponed
Pursuit Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2086
Loc: Way out there

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At the request of the bills sponsor ag committe was cancelled and the bill was rolled to a later date. The pressure we've applied is working. Every office I was in today was inundated by opposition calls and emails. Zero calls and emails in support. WAY TO GO!!!!!
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One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted - Jose Ortega y Gasset

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http://www.pursuitland.com

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#2756156 - 02/14/12 01:35 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
14 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 8090
Loc: Atoka, TN

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Good deal, I have sent NUMEROUS emails as many others here has done as well. Keep up the great work folks and hopefully we can dodge yet another of Nicely's bullets. Thanks for the update Chris.

Edited by Andy S. (02/14/12 01:42 PM)
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Andy S.

If I had saved all the money I spent on hunting, I'd spend it on hunting.

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#2756168 - 02/14/12 01:42 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Andy S.]
doubledownranch
8 Point


Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 1292
Loc: Old Hickory / Watertown

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Good Deal. Glad it's paying off.
_________________________

Team Run 'N Gunners


πKa

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#2756200 - 02/14/12 02:17 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: doubledownranch]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8447
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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Good!
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Be nervous, but fear no one

In God we trust

God bless the USA!

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#2756203 - 02/14/12 02:19 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: JCDEERMAN]
Elmer
6 Point


Registered: 09/01/11
Posts: 556
Loc: Ft. Campbell/Montgomery co.

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Why postponed and not thrown out completely?
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I have hunted almost every day of my life.... the rest have been wasted

Mathews Reezen, CVA Wolf, 7mmWSM

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#2756210 - 02/14/12 02:26 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Elmer]
Pursuit Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2086
Loc: Way out there

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 Originally Posted By: P@Y
Why postponed and not thrown out completely?
It was postponed because the bills sponsor, Rep. Niceley, who is also the chairman of the Ag Committee knew that he didn't have enough votes to carry the bill. It is his priveledge as the chairman to postpone the vote in order to save face and/or try to garner some support and/or hope that the opposition dies down. It will have to come to a vote or be withdrawn by the sponsot in order for it to be killed.

This is a great first step. The TnDeer community was very instrumental in turning enough votes to stall the bills momentum. Congratulations and thanks to all. We don't know yet what the next steps are, but we will likely need to keep the heat dialed up.


Edited by Pursuit Hunter (02/14/12 02:27 PM)
_________________________
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted - Jose Ortega y Gasset

http://www.pursuithunting.com
http://www.pursuitland.com

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#2756218 - 02/14/12 02:31 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

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If he had let it run and it had been voted down, he would not be able to bring it up again this year. As it stands now, he can stump for more votes and bring it up again later.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#2756258 - 02/14/12 02:57 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Football Hunter
Non-Typical


Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 25536
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co

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GOOD!
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!

You wont know,if you dont go!


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#2756282 - 02/14/12 03:22 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Football Hunter]
7mm08
12 Point


Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 5211
Loc: In a river hopefully!

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called three guys in Nashville myself..told them Nicely needed to be farmed out on an island in the Pacific!
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I hunt and fish not for the thrill of the kill, but for the thrill of the grill!!

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#2756284 - 02/14/12 03:26 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: 7mm08]
JCDEERMAN
14 Point


Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 8447
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN

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 Originally Posted By: 7mm08
called three guys in Nashville myself..told them Nicely needed to be farmed out on an island in the Pacific!


Right on!
_________________________
Be nervous, but fear no one

In God we trust

God bless the USA!

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#2756306 - 02/14/12 04:09 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
TNDeerGuy
12 Point


Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 6170
Loc: Old Hickory/Mt.Juliet, TN

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 Originally Posted By: Pursuit Hunter
At the request of the bills sponsor ag committe was cancelled and the bill was rolled to a later date. The pressure we've applied is working. Every office I was in today was inundated by opposition calls and emails. Zero calls and emails in support. WAY TO GO!!!!!


Exactly—way to go and thanks to all!!!!! However, going by history—you can bet that he will get the lies and misinformation engine kicked into high gear in order to convince some to sway their votes—we must do the same in order to stop him! We are the ones with the biological and historical data on the effects that type of legislation will have on native Whitetail populations—that are not driven by greed and contempt!!!! Keep the pressure up because it does work—as you can see by the actions of today !!!!

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#2756321 - 02/14/12 04:29 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: TNDeerGuy]
cmn
Spike


Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 83
Loc: nashville,tn

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I agree with TNDeerGuy. I promise you Frank will filling the air with half truths and lies to anyone who will listen. I have seen this for several years. He did this today in committee. PLEASE stay with us and do not be lulled into thinking this is over. Thanks for all the great help and phone calls!!
_________________________
never graduate from the school of the outdoors

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#2756358 - 02/14/12 05:07 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: cmn]
smstone22
16 Point


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16954
Loc: Allardt, TN

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GOOOD!!!
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-Let Him Go, So He Can Grow

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#2756381 - 02/14/12 05:22 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: smstone22]
bowriter
Non-Typical


Registered: 08/31/02
Posts: 42314
Loc: Lebanon,TN USA

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I agree we need to keep the pressure on. However, the real remedy is to stump against him in his home area. Easiest way to kill a snake is to remove his head. Do that and the rest dies.
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Constipation has ruined many a good day. Not as many as stupidity, though.

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#2756434 - 02/14/12 06:25 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: bowriter]
8 POINTS OR BETTER
10 Point


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 4102
Loc: Hardin, Co.

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 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I agree we need to keep the pressure on. However, the real remedy is to stump against him in his home area. Easiest way to kill a snake is to remove his head. Do that and the rest dies.


Yep. The sportsmen and women of Tennessee need to put him out of office, that would put a end to it all.
_________________________
" Some localities are willing to work for their sport, and have plenty. Others are willing merely to take what comes easy, and have little or none." - Aldo Leopold

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#2756456 - 02/14/12 06:48 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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I received a call from my Rep. and he said, "The deer farm bill had been rolled for one week." He didn't know exactly which day it would be voted on but it will probably be next week.

I don't think Niceley will allow it to come to a vote if he thinks there is any chance that it will be defeated.

We can't let up now. Everyone needs to continue to call the Reps that are on the Agriculture Committee.
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




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#2756792 - 02/15/12 05:12 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
102
10 Point


Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 4083
Loc: Tennessee

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how about someone pasting the reps names and numbers at the top and keeping them there so every time we have a few moments we may call and protest.
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God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.

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#2756814 - 02/15/12 06:29 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: 8 POINTS OR BETTER]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: 8 POINTS OR BETTER
 Originally Posted By: bowriter
I agree we need to keep the pressure on. However, the real remedy is to stump against him in his home area. Easiest way to kill a snake is to remove his head. Do that and the rest dies.


Yep. The sportsmen and women of Tennessee need to put him out of office, that would put a end to it all.


We are already working on it!
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#2758261 - 02/16/12 09:50 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ]
Cold Creek Mafia
Spike


Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 68
Loc: Lauderdale County TN

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Yes, we must keep up the pressure! TWRA and sportsment have worked to long and hard for our whitetail population to let this indvidual destroy it!
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#2758446 - 02/16/12 12:54 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: JCDEERMAN]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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I was told today that he already has two opponents announcing they'll run against him this time around. TWF absolutely does not back political candidates, despite numerous requests to do so (and often we really would like to support a particular person because we know them to be strong conservationists). We take this position to maintain the bi-partisan role we need to work with members of both Party's and independents. But we can and do express our positions on issues affecting our fish and wildlife resources and can always hope the person who best supports our conservation ethic and mission wins.
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

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#2758664 - 02/16/12 04:27 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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New Date for the Vote on the "Deer Farming Bill", 2/21/12.

House Agriculture Committee
Agriculture Committee

2/21/2012
Presentation from Life & Science Tennessee regarding diversified crops



1. HB3156 by *Keisling. (*SB2854 by *Yager.)
Environmental Preservation - As introduced, changes dates of harvest season for wild ginseng from August 15 through December 31 to September 1 through December 31 of each year; adjusts reporting requirement for ginseng dealers to reflect new start date of harvest season. - Amends TCA Title 62, Chapter 28, Part 1 and Title 70, Chapter 8, Part 2.
The Abstract summarizes HB3156 as introduced.


2. *HB3164 by *Niceley, *Weaver, *Faison, *Holt, *Keisling, *Forgety. (SB3399 by *Massey.)
Livestock - As introduced, authorizes breeding facilities to possess certain native species for purposes determined by and in accordance with rules promulgated by the department of agriculture. - Amends TCA Title 43; Title 44 and Title 70, Chapter 4, Part 4.
Summary for *HB3164

_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




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#2758676 - 02/16/12 04:39 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
TNGunsmoke
8 Point


Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1428
Loc: Jackson,TN

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Sent an email to both my local rep and senator urging them to vote no on these issues. If enough of us do, common sense will prevail.
_________________________
You can't fix stupid.....

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#2759137 - 02/17/12 05:18 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: TNGunsmoke]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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ttt
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




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#2759599 - 02/17/12 01:58 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
ballfan
Button


Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 10
Loc: TN, Sumner Co

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What's the Names of the Voters and how do I reach them?
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#2759602 - 02/17/12 02:00 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

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Committee Officers
Dale Ford, Vice-Chair http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h6.html
Curtis Halford, Secretary http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h79.html
Members
Eddie Bass http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h65.html
Sheila Butt http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h64.html
Jeremy Faison http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h11.html
John Forgety http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h23.html
Andy Holt http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h76.html
Kelly Keisling http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h38.html
Steve McDaniel http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h72.html
Bill Sanderson http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h77.html
Johnny Shaw http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h80.html
Terri Lynn Weaver http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h40.html
John Mark Windle http://www.capitol.tn.gov/house/members/h41.html
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#2759604 - 02/17/12 02:02 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

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Don't back down now folks....Round two is Tuesday, and we need to have our voices heard. Fill up the voicemail boxes and email inboxes. Flood them. If these legislators come in Monday and they can send an email, we have not sent enough. Fill the servers with your comments.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#2759606 - 02/17/12 02:04 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Diehard Hunter]
ballfan
Button


Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 10
Loc: TN, Sumner Co

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What is wrong with having a Whitetail Deer farm? If it is wrong, than why do we already have other wildlife farms in TN? You can hunt any other species Deer, Elk, or Exotics in TN. Why not let those who wish to start a business in raising Whitetail Deer do so at their own risk? What does it do to your right to hunt?
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#2759624 - 02/17/12 02:26 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

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Read the numerous threads for more information, but here are a few.

1) CWD in wild white-tailed deer is DIRECTLY linked to CWD in captive heards. Where this has happened, it has had tremendous economic and ecological ramifications.

2) Allowing the ownership of a native species is one step closer to the European model of wildlife management where the landowner owns the wildlife, not the people of the state. As for your RIGHT to hunt, you lose it since the landowner will be able to raise HIS white-tailed deer as livestock. With this legislation, a landowner can put up a high fence, get a permit from the Dept. of Ag., and take possession of the deer. If you want to kill one, you will have to buy it. If you kill it without buying it, you have broken the law, and can be sued for the value of that animal. Imagine shooting that once in a lifetime trophy only to find it has escaped a deer farm and has a tattoo in it's lip to identify it. Then the owner comes along and says that deer had a price tag of $5000, $10,000 or more. This bill would classify them as livestock and you would be treated just as if you killed a farmers cow. You would have to pay the market value for that animal

3) There is no such thing as at THEIR own risk. Bringing in deer from other states increases the probability of bringing in diseases that can be spread to our native deer as well as our dairy and beef cattle. (Brucellosis and Tuberculosis).

4) We have other wildlife farms, and we have had problems with some of them...Look at the example in Claiborne county with the escaped Red deer that could not be hunted until the state could show they were abandoned because they were considered livestock. They pose a direct threat to our elk because of potential for interbreeding. I do not know if they were ever tested for disease or not, that threat may exist as well.

5) Look at the example from Missouri. The deer farmer there with a CWD positive heard has refused the buyout from the state Department of Ag. and the state wildlife agency cannot step in to get rid of the infected deer. Every day they are alive, they are spreading this disease. Their only option at this time is to kill as many deer as they can outside his farm to prevent the spread. I wonder how that affects the hunters in that area? They will not have deer to hunt next year, the year after, or the year after, etc.....The same thing has happened time and again around these captive facilities. technically, you will still have every right to hunt that you had before, there just won't be any deer to hunt. You still the the right though.

The threat of disease is so bad our state veterinarian has stopped ANY more importation of elk for the restoration program, even though they come from an area with no history of the disease.

An ounce of prevention is worth 10 tons of cure in this case.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#2759633 - 02/17/12 02:32 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
doubledownranch
8 Point


Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 1292
Loc: Old Hickory / Watertown

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 Originally Posted By: ballfan
What is wrong with having a Whitetail Deer farm? If it is wrong, than why do we already have other wildlife farms in TN? You can hunt any other species Deer, Elk, or Exotics in TN. Why not let those who wish to start a business in raising Whitetail Deer do so at their own risk? What does it do to your right to hunt?


Let us know if you need anymore examples of why this doesn't need to happen. We will be happy to share.
_________________________

Team Run 'N Gunners


πKa

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#2759999 - 02/17/12 09:24 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: doubledownranch]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

Offline
ttt
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




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#2762075 - 02/19/12 10:35 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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A significant focus of the w-t deer farming proponents has been on the prevention side of the equation, which is important. However, IMO, preventive measures are only as good as their enforcement - without enforcement, attaining voluntary compliance from all concerned is wishful thinking. I'd even go so far as to say that the majority of the potential deer farmers would obey the rules and regulations; but there will be those who won't, and it only takes one to introduce CWD into Tennessee.

WI has some pretty good audit and inspection findings that I believe are applicable to our situation, when it comes to a historical perspective on potential harm. These are highlights from the referenced docs...

Summary of a Statewide Audit and Inspection of Wisconsin’s Captive Whitetail Deer Farms
Conducted September-December, 2002


Deer Held in Captivity


Based on discussions with deer farmers, there are more deer in captivity in Wisconsin than verifiable through current reporting methods. The difficulty to maintain an accurate count of captive deer ultimately undermines the ability to document escapes which may have disease management implications. (pg 8)


Captive Deer Escapes

In the course of the audits, the operators of 182 of the 550 farms indicated that they had deer escape from their pens into the wild at some time during the lifetime of the operation. The minimum number of whitetail deer involved in these escapes based on the audit worksheets was 671; 436 deer were never recovered. Wardens noted the unintentional escapes typically resulted from storm-damaged fences, gates left open and dogs chasing deer through fences. (pg8)

 One farmer told wardens that an unknown number of deer escaped from his farm. In response to this and based on the presence of CWD within the farmer’s captive herd, wardens began efforts to shoot and sample deer in close proximity to the pen. One deer shot by a warden outside the farmer’s pen was marked with an ear tag that the farmer identified as one of his own. This deer later tested positive for CWD. This deer is the only known recovery from those that escaped. (pg 8)

Intentional Release of Captive Deer During the audit process, two deer farm operators told to wardens that they intentionally released their captive deer into the wild.

 A deer farmer, believing that the market for captive deer was going to be adversely impacted by the discovery of CWD in Wisconsin, released all nine of his whitetail deer into the wild. Of those, three were ear-tagged. In August 2002, approximately three months after the deer had been released,
conservation wardens shot five deer near the farmer’s fence and submitted them for CWD sampling. The remaining deer, including the three ear-tagged deer, have not been located. (pg 9)

Captive Deer Health and Mortality

Deer farmers reported a total of 1,222 deer died in captivity during the last several years. Some of these deer died of complications during immobilization and transport; others died of unknown causes. Most deer were not tested for any disease. Instances of sick deer found in captivity were referred to DATCP.

 Wardens responded to a complaint of a foul odor coming from a deer farm and discovered the decomposing carcasses of five deer. They were able to recover several official identification tags from the carcasses and were able to link one of them to a neighboring state. No postmortem disease testing could be performed on these deer due to decomposition of vital tissues. Wardens attempted to audit the farmer several times but were unsuccessful.

 Wardens conducted an audit and learned that the owner depopulated his entire herd shortly after the DATCP freeze on captive deer movement within the state. The farmer stated that he shot and killed all 34 deer and buried them on his property. (pg 9)

A Risk-based Audit of the Captive/Privately-owned Cervid Industry in Michigan, Michigan Department of Natural Resources Report Series, Issue Report No. 1, March 10, 2005

Overall, auditors determined that 37% of all C/P-OC facilities were not in compliance with current regulations at the time of the audit. The principal areas of deficiency related to the identification of animals, the rate of CWD testing, conditions of fences, and the rate and reporting of escaped animals. In spite of a mandatory testing program for all C/P-OC over 16 months of age that die plus a representative percentage of culls, nearly 90% of the reported C/P-OC deaths were not tested for CWD.

The lack of a specified protocol for de-commissioning or de-registering a C/P-OC facility is a risk for introduction and propagation of CWD. Procedures to deal with facility abandonment, are conspicuously absent and critically needed. As an example, when inspectors visited a facility during the audit, fences were down, the C/P-OC were gone, and the owner had moved out of state.

These audit findings also revealed the risk of C/P-OC escapes. In spite of the fact that reporting of “releases” is mandatory in current regulations, it is clear not only that escapes occur but that they are rarely reported.

An emerging issue with respect to the risks of CWD introduction and propagation is potential environmental contamination via the manure or carcasses of infected animals.

Measures of the overall non-compliance of C/P-OC facilities (37% of C/P-OC facilities judged noncompliant by audit inspectors) essentially speak for themselves.





Edited by Monty (02/19/12 10:36 PM)
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

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#2762249 - 02/20/12 07:38 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

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Excellent post Monty.

We have a very good example of what can happen right here in Tennessee. The red deer in Claiborne county are escapees from a deer farm. From what I understand, the owner's guard unit was activated and while he was deployed severe storms damaged his fences, allowing the red deer to escape. Even though we can easily tell the red deer from our native white-tails, the eradication effort has not been too successful. Imagine if those had been white-tails that were carrying disease. The only solutionwould be to depopulate the entire area. (That is a nice way of saying kill as many deer as possible using sharpshooter, not hunters)

Please folks.....let off now, we have to stop this deer farming AKA livestock bill before it gets started.
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


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#2762589 - 02/20/12 01:23 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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Just sent this to most of Ag committee members - didn't waste pixals sending it to the sponsors.

To: rep.dale.ford@capitol.tn.gov, rep.curtis.halford@capitol.tn.gov, rep.steve.mcdaniel@capitol.tn.gov, rep.johnny.shaw@capitol.tn.gov, rep.john.windle@capitol.tn.gov, rep.eddie.bass@capitol.tn.gov, rep.sheila.butt@capitol.tn.gov, rep.bill.sanderson@capitol.tn.gov

Dear Agriculture Committee Members,

This Tuesday HB3164 will again be before you and you have another serious decision to make. Again, I respectfully request that you not support this bill because it most probably will have profound, down-the-road, adverse impacts on Tennessee's deer herds and the financial and recreational benefits they provide to taxpayers - both present and future. There is significant likelihood that opening our State's borders to white-tailed deer imports will bring with it chronic wasting disease. I know, this is an old, frequently repeated concern that proponents of this bad bill are doing their best to down-play and marginalize. It just isn't as innocent and benign as the sponsor tries to make it sound.

Please don't let them sway you with promises of effective regulations and control measures. If these regs and measures work so effectively, then why is CWD continuing to spread closer to Tennessee? Every year CWD moves closer to our borders and animals, principally w-t deer, continue being reported with the incurable, fatal disease. If this were such an innocuous, harmless business venture using a game animal, then why didn't Conservation committee members ignore the CWD and other disease concerns of notable professionals and pass the sponsor's bill last year? They knew better. They clearly understood the unacceptable risks.

Consider this: the proponent's control measures are preventative in application, as have been other states' erstwhile attempts to prevent CWD from entering their deer herds. The number of states failing in preventive efforts continues to increase. The costs of trying to control the disease once it is in their herds is in the million$ - hundreds of million$ in many states. Why do even the best preventative measures fail?

It isn't the many law-abiding, reliable operators we need to fear so much; it is the unreliable, uncaring, and pure ole opportunists trying to make a quick dollar who have little or no intention of obeying the laws that will move animals to wherever there's a market or other opportunity for gain (e.g. wild hogs). I spent a career fighting these kinds of individuals on state-wide, national, and international markets. It will happen, of that you can be 100% certain as history clearly shows.

I've attached two short excerpts from MI and WI audits that substantiate many of my concerns. History, as you know, has a way of repeating itself for those who do not learn from either their or other's mistakes. Please, let's not repeat these other states' mistakes and allow w-t deer farming into Tennessee. It's a bad bet on a business with unacceptably high risks for us.
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

Top
#2763574 - 02/21/12 10:46 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: JCDEERMAN]
RiverBuck10
8 Point


Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 1448
Loc: Hamilton, Co TN

Offline
Hallelujah!!! Awesome!! Matty you are the man!! Great stuff!!



Edited by RiverBuck10 (02/21/12 10:51 AM)
_________________________
Blessing,
RiverBuck

Top
#2763606 - 02/21/12 11:12 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: RiverBuck10]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

Offline
Today's reply from Rep. Butt's - I sent her a profound thank you, along with praise for her due diligence - wish more of'em would follow her example....

"Dear Mr. Monty xxxxxxx,

Thank you so much for writing to me concerning HB 3164, otherwise known as the "deer farming" bill. When the bill was first introduced, I signed on as a co-sponsor believing that this would be a good way for farmers who were interested to begin a game breeding operation and bring in some revenue from their property. I believe strongly in our free enterprise system and a person's freedom to make a living.

That being said, when so much opposition arose to the bill, I began an intensive study of game breeding, or "deer farming" in other states. I found that 34 states have this type of operation. Most are disease free. Four states have had incidences of CWD, but it cannot be proven that the disease came from a deer operation. You may or may not know that many species of deer are already being brought into Tennessee as well as elk and we have remained disease free.

In talking with people from other states which included State Veterinarians, Cattlemen, Natural Wildlife Resource Agencies and Departments of Agriculture, I found that it is possible to remain disease free but not without many safeguards. Ideally, the Department of Agriculture in conjunction with Natural Resource Agencies would promulgate the rules, there would be in place a system by which the State Veterinarian could register and identify the deer and monitor for disease and in some cases there should be a minimum acreage. There are tamper proof RFID tags as well as computer chips now available for identification. There is even DNA testing which would help identify each animal.

Having studied these things, I believe it would be possible to maintain a disease free state if everyone followed the rules. And that is what I found to be the problem in most states. There were many incidences of those who would not follow the rules. Most states who have remained disease free are no longer importing deer. Several closed to imports in 2002-2004, but still export stock.

You know that every time we bring in a horse, a cow, a deer or an elk, etc., to Tennessee, there is a possibility of bringing in disease. However, from the overwhelming response of my constituents, I do not believe that Tennessee or Tennesseans are ready to begin "deer farming." I think that a wise person will change his/her mind when presented with substantial and valid arguments and that is where I am on this bill. I will not vote for HB 3164 at this time.

Again, thank you for sharing your concerns with me! Please feel free to contact me at any time.


My Best,

Sheila Butt
State Representative
District 64
1-615-741-3005
rep.sheila.butt@capitol.tn.gov"
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

Top
#2763732 - 02/21/12 01:17 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
Diehard Hunter
CRAMP
12 Point


Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 6980
Loc: East Tennessee

Offline
Almost time....
_________________________
The recreational value of a game animal is inverse to the artificiality of its origin and the intensiveness of the management system that produced it. Aldo Leopold


Top
#2763900 - 02/21/12 04:08 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Diehard Hunter]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

Offline
Well, the emails and phone calls are working on some of the Ag Comm members. A couple flatly stated the hundreds of contacts they've received are 100% or thereabouts totally against the bill.
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

Top
#2764047 - 02/21/12 07:24 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
TNlandowner
6 Point


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Carroll County

Offline
Here was Representative Weaver's response to my letter of concern.


"Greetings,

Thank you very much for your concern with HB3164. Please know that serving on the Ag Committee further expresses my promise to uphold and protect our resources in this great state, including our wildlife.

HB3164 simply addresses the right for property owners to add another livestock resource to sustain agricultural enterprises in Tennessee. This bill does not privatize wild white-tailed deer. TWRA would continue to be responsible for managing the wild deer resource.

The Department of Agriculture would hold high standards that would exceed those of other states. All deer imported into the state currently follow strict animal disease testing protocol established by the Department of Agriculture. Any deer farmed in Tennessee will not be captured deer from our wild herd. Instead, regulations will prohibit any deer brought into this state from any state that has had CWD; only deer from herds certified disease-free for 5 years will be brought in. These deer will typically be raised for meat, hides, antlers, and purposes other than hunting. Throughout the U.S. where deer are commercially raised, they coexist with cattle herds; therefore, stating deer spread disease to cattle is just not true. As a member of the Tennessee Cattlemen’s Association, if I thought deer farming would endanger our cattle industry, no way would I support it.

I see this legislation as a decision of landowners to choose to raise white-tailed deer commercially, just as farmers choose to raise cattle or horses. Passage of this bill would help rural farmers and give them another alternative livestock. It would create jobs, bring more revenue into our rural counties, and help sustain our family farms. I see no way how this would change the sport of deer hunting.

I so appreciate your concern and your voice when it involves our precious resources. That being said, I will continue to listen to the facts as they are presented in committees.
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”—John Adams

It is a pleasure to serve you.

Respectfully,

Representative Terri Lynn Weaver"

Top
#2764237 - 02/21/12 10:35 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: TNlandowner]
budro2
Spike


Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 74
Loc: tn,perry

Offline
you better light up her phone lines and email. i started another post labeled deer farming supported by rep weaver. and emailed her. let her see the opposition on this site.
Top
#2764268 - 02/21/12 11:25 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: budro2]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

Offline
The vote on HB3164 has been deferred to 3/6/2012.

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=HB3164

Once again Niceley has elected not to bring this bill up for a vote. There could be many reasons that he has done this but I suspect that he was not sure it would pass. It is my understanding that if he brings it to a vote and it fails it will be dead for the rest of this year and can't be brought up for a vote until next year. We have to keep the pressure up and not forget this bill.

Remember, 3/6/12 is the date he has set for this bill to be voted on. This gives us a couple of weeks to really hammer the members of this committee and maybe we can swing some more over to our way of thinking.
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




Top
#2764700 - 02/22/12 11:49 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
Mtn Hunter
4 Point


Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 115
Loc: TN

Offline
Just saw this on WBIR's site about this topic. Not sure if this link will work.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/206991/...ws%7Cbc%7Clarge

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#2766887 - 02/24/12 09:19 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Mtn Hunter]
ballfan
Button


Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 10
Loc: TN, Sumner Co

Offline
I for one support the bill. If you are so concerned about CWD than where were you during the Elk release or restocking of Whitetail deer. Fact: Deer came from the states of Maryland, Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas, Virginia, Oklahoma and North Carolina. Elk came from Alberta Canada, Utah and another source for elk from the Elk Enclosure at LBL. And those States with CWD are Maryland, Wisconsin, Virginia and Alberta Canada. Those genetics are already here. If the TWRA can find disease free Elk to release into the wild than why can’t we find disease free Deer? Or should I say WHITETAIL? Because you can already farm and hunt any other deer in TN. Including Elk!

Deer farmers are under strict regulations. If any animal test positive for CWD on a farm it is shut down for five years and should be. Even if they are clear they don’t allow any other deer in or out for years. Look at the stats. CWD is not our biggest issue. What about Hemorrhagic Disease (Blue Tongue Disease) or Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD).

Question, How many cases of CWD were reported in the entire country last year? And of that number how many were Whitetail Deer vs. Elk? And of that, what was the percentage of the population infected? Less than 1%? Less than ½ of 1%? More like 0.00001 %. I am concerned about my Deer herd, but its Hemorrhagic Disease (Blue Tongue Disease) or Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD). How many deer did you loose on your property in 2010. I lost something like 60% of our herd. This is just like all the other loons in the nation. If I cry loud enough, it will become a epidemic! And this is not a epidemic!

Top
#2767795 - 02/25/12 10:41 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
Pursuit Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2086
Loc: Way out there

Offline
Ball fan. That argument sounds familiar. You and Frank must be reading the same script.
_________________________
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted - Jose Ortega y Gasset

http://www.pursuithunting.com
http://www.pursuitland.com

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#2768183 - 02/26/12 12:01 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

Offline
Ballfan

When were the w-t deer and elk restorations done? The elk from Canada were monitored better than most elk on captive farms at the time. When the concerns about CWD and it's spread into new areas became more prevalent, TWRA stopped importing elk.

You're point would be well taken, if the time-lines for both re-introduction and w-t deer farming were today. CWD is continuing to spread across the U.S. Just last month two wild deer tested positive in Missouri in the same area where captive deer were twice before reported positive. And who gets stuck paying for those captive animals when they're euthanized? The clean-up on infected farms? The killing of wild w-t deer in 5+ mile radius around these facilities? Taxpayers and or wildlife agencies. The deer farmers get their money one way or the other - not a bad business risk at all.

There probably won't be much chance of reaching agreement on this issue considering the motivations of the two groups: one is a business looking at using w-t deer as a commodity; the other is a group of sportsmen and women who see the w-t deer as a wildlife resource. I seriously doubt these two groups will agree that farming w-t deer in pens to be shot as a "trophy," collect urine and semen for sale, and saw off velvet antlers as an aphrodisiac in traditional oriental medicines is a good use of a game animal.

Finally, many see the w-t deer farming initiative in the same light as the ostrich farming business several years ago. Those who got in early made money - those buying the birds later didn't do so well. It didn't take long to saturate that market. In some ways, these captive cervid farms fall into a similar pattern - opening new markets in states like Tennessee is great for those already in the business, but may not be so great for those folks getting in on the tail end.


Edited by Monty (02/26/12 12:03 AM)
_________________________
"What is man without the beasts? For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected." (Chief Seattle)

Top
#2768564 - 02/26/12 07:04 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
TNlandowner
6 Point


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Carroll County

Offline
Rep. Terri Lynn Weaver shared this article with me yesterday:

"NADeFA News
Common Issues From Legislative Hearings Around The Country.
I have been working with Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina and New Jersey to expand deer farming and hunting ranches within those states. There also is legislation in West Virginia to move under the Department of Agriculture and allow importation. Indiana has legislation to clear up the laws regulating hunting ranches and expand that industry. Ohio has legislation to move the industry from under the Department of Natural Resources over to the Department of Agriculture. Missouri is working to remove an old regulation that has surfaced requiring TB testing for movement within the state. There are three common issues that I always run into and I thought it might be beneficial if our producers had some of the facts so they could dispel a lot of the misinformation when they hear it.
Risk of importing Brucellosis? - "There has never been a whitetail diagnosed with Brucellosis". The Greater Yellowstone Area is a reservoir for Brucellosis - There are No whitetail farmers in Wyoming, Idaho or the GYA of Montana. The tests for Brucellosis are all very accurate in Cervids. Requiring all whitetails to be from a Brucellosis Certified Free herd or individually tested before importation would be a lot less risky than allowing cattle to be imported with "no" test under state free status.
Risk of importing Tuberculosis? - There has never been TB in a breeding herd of a whitetail deer farmer. There have only been two states with TB in whitetail deer. Minnesota had the southwestern strain pass from the cattle industry to "wild" whitetails in a small area in the Northwest corner of the state. There were no whitetail deer farmers in the TB Zone. The cattle have regained their TB free status and there has not been a positive wild deer found in the last two years of surveillance. Michigan has its own unique strain of TB, which went from cattle to wild whitetail deer and then years later back to the cattle industry as well as three hunting ranches that are located inside the TB Zone. These hunting ranches were allowed to fence in wild deer years earlier, after the discovery of TB they were depopulated and cleaned up. Michigan requires all of their cervid herds to whole herd TB test and there has never been TB found in a breeding herd and no live animals ever left the three hunting ranches. There has been TB found in elk, red deer and fallow deer with a strain referred to as the Cervid Strain. This strain has also been found in cattle in Nebraska, South Dakota, Indiana and Kentucky. The cattle and cervids found with this strain have all been depopulated. There has never been a whitetail deer found with the "cervid strain" in the wild or farmed deer industry. The Code of Federal Regulations requires all cervids moved interstate to be from Accredited herds or from a whole herd test followed up by an individual test. Cervids are not allowed to move on State TB Free Status.
Risk of importing CWD? - Thankfully there have only been a small handful of whitetails herds that have been found with CWD in the farmed industry (only 7 deer on 7 farms since 2006). Another important fact to note would be that in all of these cases none of the deer were brought in from another herd and that CWD has never been traced back to movement from a whitetail farm that has been monitoring for more than 5 years. As a matter of fact, most of the CWD infections in the whitetail farming industry have been attributed to movement of wild cervids for taxidermy or improper carcass disposal of wild cervids from CWD zones out west. Research has proven the incubation period for whitetails to be fairly short and the maximum period a whitetail has ever lived in a CWD research environment is 32 months. The industry standard imposed by all states that have an established whitetail breeding industry is 5 years of monitoring for interstate commerce which is almost double the amount of time a whitetail has ever lived with CWD. While there are a few states that started testing in 1998, the majority of the industry started monitoring in 2002 which gives 10 or more years of surveillance of all deaths over 12 months of age. If you look at the numbers you can see that science based regulations have controlled CWD in the breeding industry.
There is a firm connection to environmental contamination and movement of CWD and dead deer and elk from the wild. I would suggest that everyone check with their state to makes sure they have implemented restrictions for hunters and taxidermists transporting carcass parts from cervids killed in the wild.
The Cervid industry supports "science based regulated trade". There are risks when moving any animal in commerce and one of the biggest threats to animal agriculture has proven to be humans that travel from one farm to another or migrant workers that are infected with TB. We are not asking for any waivers or exemptions when we move our animals. There are proven and established regulations and guidelines that are science based, and all herds that meet these requirements should be treated fairly and equally and allowed to do commerce.

Shawn Schafer
Executive Director
North American Deer Farmers Association
651-212-1315
schafer@nadefa.org"
_________________________
Never be afraid to lead for the right cause.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!"

Isaiah 6:8

Top
#2768586 - 02/26/12 07:27 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: TNlandowner]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: TNlandowner
Rep. Terri Lynn Weaver shared this article with me yesterday:

"NADeFA News
Common Issues From Legislative Hearings Around The Country.
I have been working with Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina and New Jersey to expand deer farming and hunting ranches within those states. There also is legislation in West Virginia to move under the Department of Agriculture and allow importation. Indiana has legislation to clear up the laws regulating hunting ranches and expand that industry. Ohio has legislation to move the industry from under the Department of Natural Resources over to the Department of Agriculture. Missouri is working to remove an old regulation that has surfaced requiring TB testing for movement within the state. There are three common issues that I always run into and I thought it might be beneficial if our producers had some of the facts so they could dispel a lot of the misinformation when they hear it.
Risk of importing Brucellosis? - "There has never been a whitetail diagnosed with Brucellosis". The Greater Yellowstone Area is a reservoir for Brucellosis - There are No whitetail farmers in Wyoming, Idaho or the GYA of Montana. The tests for Brucellosis are all very accurate in Cervids. Requiring all whitetails to be from a Brucellosis Certified Free herd or individually tested before importation would be a lot less risky than allowing cattle to be imported with "no" test under state free status.
Risk of importing Tuberculosis? - There has never been TB in a breeding herd of a whitetail deer farmer. There have only been two states with TB in whitetail deer. Minnesota had the southwestern strain pass from the cattle industry to "wild" whitetails in a small area in the Northwest corner of the state. There were no whitetail deer farmers in the TB Zone. The cattle have regained their TB free status and there has not been a positive wild deer found in the last two years of surveillance. Michigan has its own unique strain of TB, which went from cattle to wild whitetail deer and then years later back to the cattle industry as well as three hunting ranches that are located inside the TB Zone. These hunting ranches were allowed to fence in wild deer years earlier, after the discovery of TB they were depopulated and cleaned up. Michigan requires all of their cervid herds to whole herd TB test and there has never been TB found in a breeding herd and no live animals ever left the three hunting ranches. There has been TB found in elk, red deer and fallow deer with a strain referred to as the Cervid Strain. This strain has also been found in cattle in Nebraska, South Dakota, Indiana and Kentucky. The cattle and cervids found with this strain have all been depopulated. There has never been a whitetail deer found with the "cervid strain" in the wild or farmed deer industry. The Code of Federal Regulations requires all cervids moved interstate to be from Accredited herds or from a whole herd test followed up by an individual test. Cervids are not allowed to move on State TB Free Status.
Risk of importing CWD? - Thankfully there have only been a small handful of whitetails herds that have been found with CWD in the farmed industry (only 7 deer on 7 farms since 2006). Another important fact to note would be that in all of these cases none of the deer were brought in from another herd and that CWD has never been traced back to movement from a whitetail farm that has been monitoring for more than 5 years. As a matter of fact, most of the CWD infections in the whitetail farming industry have been attributed to movement of wild cervids for taxidermy or improper carcass disposal of wild cervids from CWD zones out west. Research has proven the incubation period for whitetails to be fairly short and the maximum period a whitetail has ever lived in a CWD research environment is 32 months. The industry standard imposed by all states that have an established whitetail breeding industry is 5 years of monitoring for interstate commerce which is almost double the amount of time a whitetail has ever lived with CWD. While there are a few states that started testing in 1998, the majority of the industry started monitoring in 2002 which gives 10 or more years of surveillance of all deaths over 12 months of age. If you look at the numbers you can see that science based regulations have controlled CWD in the breeding industry.
There is a firm connection to environmental contamination and movement of CWD and dead deer and elk from the wild. I would suggest that everyone check with their state to makes sure they have implemented restrictions for hunters and taxidermists transporting carcass parts from cervids killed in the wild.
The Cervid industry supports "science based regulated trade". There are risks when moving any animal in commerce and one of the biggest threats to animal agriculture has proven to be humans that travel from one farm to another or migrant workers that are infected with TB. We are not asking for any waivers or exemptions when we move our animals. There are proven and established regulations and guidelines that are science based, and all herds that meet these requirements should be treated fairly and equally and allowed to do commerce.

Shawn Schafer
Executive Director
North American Deer Farmers Association
651-212-1315
schafer@nadefa.org"


I got the same letter. This is what I sent back:

The problem with this is that it is a self serving document. The folks that breed deer need to expand their market into new areas to remain viable. Check the fiscal report on Michigan and their deer farming.

Until there is a live animal test that is 99% + accurate the danger from CWD is a very real issue.

Has anyone done a cost benefit analysis on deer farming in the state of Tennessee? I have looked at it and there seems to be very little chance that a small time farmer or even a middle sized farm could be profitable in this market without the high fenced hunting of these animals. The high fenced hunting is something that the sponsors of this bill say will not happen.

The more you look at this legislation, and the deer farming industry as a whole, the more it looks like a pyramid scheme. The folks that have a lot of money invested in this type of operation have realized that they must sell supplies at an inflated cost to new farmers to remain in business.

This would also carry more weight if it came from someone that had no interest or intention of going into the deer farming business. Everyone that votes for this bill will see their opponents receiving financial contributions and campaign help from the hunters in this state.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXX
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




Top
#2768990 - 02/27/12 09:06 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Beekeeper
 Originally Posted By: TNlandowner
Rep. Terri Lynn Weaver shared this article with me yesterday:

"NADeFA News
Common Issues From Legislative Hearings Around The Country.
I have been working with Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina and New Jersey to expand deer farming and hunting ranches within those states. There also is legislation in West Virginia to move under the Department of Agriculture and allow importation. Indiana has legislation to clear up the laws regulating hunting ranches and expand that industry. Ohio has legislation to move the industry from under the Department of Natural Resources over to the Department of Agriculture. Missouri is working to remove an old regulation that has surfaced requiring TB testing for movement within the state. There are three common issues that I always run into and I thought it might be beneficial if our producers had some of the facts so they could dispel a lot of the misinformation when they hear it.
Risk of importing Brucellosis? - "There has never been a whitetail diagnosed with Brucellosis". The Greater Yellowstone Area is a reservoir for Brucellosis - There are No whitetail farmers in Wyoming, Idaho or the GYA of Montana. The tests for Brucellosis are all very accurate in Cervids. Requiring all whitetails to be from a Brucellosis Certified Free herd or individually tested before importation would be a lot less risky than allowing cattle to be imported with "no" test under state free status.
Risk of importing Tuberculosis? - There has never been TB in a breeding herd of a whitetail deer farmer. There have only been two states with TB in whitetail deer. Minnesota had the southwestern strain pass from the cattle industry to "wild" whitetails in a small area in the Northwest corner of the state. There were no whitetail deer farmers in the TB Zone. The cattle have regained their TB free status and there has not been a positive wild deer found in the last two years of surveillance. Michigan has its own unique strain of TB, which went from cattle to wild whitetail deer and then years later back to the cattle industry as well as three hunting ranches that are located inside the TB Zone. These hunting ranches were allowed to fence in wild deer years earlier, after the discovery of TB they were depopulated and cleaned up. Michigan requires all of their cervid herds to whole herd TB test and there has never been TB found in a breeding herd and no live animals ever left the three hunting ranches. There has been TB found in elk, red deer and fallow deer with a strain referred to as the Cervid Strain. This strain has also been found in cattle in Nebraska, South Dakota, Indiana and Kentucky. The cattle and cervids found with this strain have all been depopulated. There has never been a whitetail deer found with the "cervid strain" in the wild or farmed deer industry. The Code of Federal Regulations requires all cervids moved interstate to be from Accredited herds or from a whole herd test followed up by an individual test. Cervids are not allowed to move on State TB Free Status.
Risk of importing CWD? - Thankfully there have only been a small handful of whitetails herds that have been found with CWD in the farmed industry (only 7 deer on 7 farms since 2006). Another important fact to note would be that in all of these cases none of the deer were brought in from another herd and that CWD has never been traced back to movement from a whitetail farm that has been monitoring for more than 5 years. As a matter of fact, most of the CWD infections in the whitetail farming industry have been attributed to movement of wild cervids for taxidermy or improper carcass disposal of wild cervids from CWD zones out west. Research has proven the incubation period for whitetails to be fairly short and the maximum period a whitetail has ever lived in a CWD research environment is 32 months. The industry standard imposed by all states that have an established whitetail breeding industry is 5 years of monitoring for interstate commerce which is almost double the amount of time a whitetail has ever lived with CWD. While there are a few states that started testing in 1998, the majority of the industry started monitoring in 2002 which gives 10 or more years of surveillance of all deaths over 12 months of age. If you look at the numbers you can see that science based regulations have controlled CWD in the breeding industry.
There is a firm connection to environmental contamination and movement of CWD and dead deer and elk from the wild. I would suggest that everyone check with their state to makes sure they have implemented restrictions for hunters and taxidermists transporting carcass parts from cervids killed in the wild.
The Cervid industry supports "science based regulated trade". There are risks when moving any animal in commerce and one of the biggest threats to animal agriculture has proven to be humans that travel from one farm to another or migrant workers that are infected with TB. We are not asking for any waivers or exemptions when we move our animals. There are proven and established regulations and guidelines that are science based, and all herds that meet these requirements should be treated fairly and equally and allowed to do commerce.

Shawn Schafer
Executive Director
North American Deer Farmers Association
651-212-1315
schafer@nadefa.org"


I got the same letter. This is what I sent back:

The problem with this is that it is a self serving document. The folks that breed deer need to expand their market into new areas to remain viable. Check the fiscal report on Michigan and their deer farming.

Until there is a live animal test that is 99% + accurate the danger from CWD is a very real issue.

Has anyone done a cost benefit analysis on deer farming in the state of Tennessee? I have looked at it and there seems to be very little chance that a small time farmer or even a middle sized farm could be profitable in this market without the high fenced hunting of these animals. The high fenced hunting is something that the sponsors of this bill say will not happen.

The more you look at this legislation, and the deer farming industry as a whole, the more it looks like a pyramid scheme. The folks that have a lot of money invested in this type of operation have realized that they must sell supplies at an inflated cost to new farmers to remain in business.

This would also carry more weight if it came from someone that had no interest or intention of going into the deer farming business. Everyone that votes for this bill will see their opponents receiving financial contributions and campaign help from the hunters in this state.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXX


Good points. True that the Assoc's information is self-serving, but that might not an influential argument for those favoring the business - being fair and objective, it is persuasive information.

Something some of you folks may have seen, but I haven't yet, is just how much "cleaning up" one of these infected farms actually cost$ taxpayers and/or license holders. I imagine most state ag depts or wildlife agency's are required to reimburse the operators for all of the animals exterminated on the facility following a CWD infection outbreak. In addition to the reimbursement expenses, there are the costs associated with state personnel's costs for doing the extermination and disposals, CWD testing, and additional follow-up monitoring. Then comes the costs to taxpayers and/or license holders for any extermination and testing done on wild deer in a given radius around the infected facility. What about restoration costs to the agency for loss of these wild animals? What about the costs paid out of the public's pockets if owner just walks away from an infected piece of property and the state has to buy the facility and maintain fencing to protect surrounding wild herds?

Seems to me the supporters of this questionable business keep touting all the economic bennies it'll bring to a "few" rural area operators - seems reasonable that we might want to let folks know how much the "rest of the story" costs taxpayers/license holders. The operator gains either way his/her business goes; not a bad deal, it seems to me.
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#2770046 - 02/28/12 11:04 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
ballfan
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Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 10
Loc: TN, Sumner Co

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Beekeeper: You stated, Until there is a live animal test that is 99% + accurate the danger from CWD is a very real issue.

A dot blot ELISA test for CWD, developed by VMRD, Inc., was licensed for CWD testing.

United States Department of Agriculture licensed a CWD dot plot (ELISA) test developed by VMRD, Inc. The test analyzes retropharyngeal lymph node samples and has a turnaround time of approximately 24 hours.

Did the Elk released test 99% free?

You didn’t answer my question about the percent of Elk vs Deer. What percent Elk have tested positive vs deer. How many Deer farms exists vs Elk farms?

That’s my point! As a whole, the threat that Elk carrying the disease vs Deer having or carrying it far exceeds that of Deer. Yet the TWRA found Elk suitable or up to their standards. Quote: All elk brought into Tennessee for release go through strict disease testing prior to release. This testing is much more thorough than that required for bringing captive elk into Tennessee. Also, the elk brought into Tennessee will come from areas where health surveillance has been ongoing for several years with no history of significant disease. All of these precautions will greatly minimize the risk of any diseases being introduced into the state.

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#2770642 - 02/28/12 09:58 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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 Originally Posted By: ballfan
Beekeeper: You stated, Until there is a live animal test that is 99% + accurate the danger from CWD is a very real issue.

A dot blot ELISA test for CWD, developed by VMRD, Inc., was licensed for CWD testing.

United States Department of Agriculture licensed a CWD dot plot (ELISA) test developed by VMRD, Inc. The test analyzes retropharyngeal lymph node samples and has a turnaround time of approximately 24 hours.

Did the Elk released test 99% free?

You didn’t answer my question about the percent of Elk vs Deer. What percent Elk have tested positive vs deer. How many Deer farms exists vs Elk farms?

That’s my point! As a whole, the threat that Elk carrying the disease vs Deer having or carrying it far exceeds that of Deer. Yet the TWRA found Elk suitable or up to their standards. Quote: All elk brought into Tennessee for release go through strict disease testing prior to release. This testing is much more thorough than that required for bringing captive elk into Tennessee. Also, the elk brought into Tennessee will come from areas where health surveillance has been ongoing for several years with no history of significant disease. All of these precautions will greatly minimize the risk of any diseases being introduced into the state.


How many captive farms have BOTH w-t deer and elk? How many w-t deer are now on farms where only w-t deer are present, but some were transported to where they now are from a farm with elk? This Q&A game isn't worth the effort because no one really knows the answers.

Regardless of what USDA or any other group claims or certifies as "licensed," do you disagree that a test with 99% reliability provides better assurance that an animal is likely CWD free than whatever else is out there today?

Argue all you want. The bottom-line is the risks are not worth the minor gain - even Niceley has said his bill with create a "few jobs." A few jobs aren't worth the risk - millions in potential losses footed by us taxpayers, while the owners get paid for their stock no matter who kills them - a shooter in a pen wanting their "trophy" mount, or a government official who is tasked with eliminating a herd because of CWD infection.
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#2771509 - 02/29/12 05:17 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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How about this abstract from a current CDC publication -

Abstract
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal, transmissible prion disease that affects captive and free-ranging deer, elk, and moose. Although the zoonotic potential of CWD is considered low, identification of multiple CWD strains and the potential for agent evolution upon serial passage hinders a definitive conclusion. Surveillance for CWD in free-ranging populations has documented a continual geographic spread of the disease throughout North America. CWD prions are shed from clinically and preclinically affected hosts, and CWD transmission is mediated at least in part by the environment, perhaps by soil. Much remains unknown, including the sites and mechanisms of prion uptake in the naive host. There are no therapeutics or effective eradication measures for CWD-endemic populations. Continued surveillance and research of CWD and its effects on cervid ecosystems is vital for controlling the long-term consequences of this emerging disease.
_________________________
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#2771648 - 02/29/12 07:36 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ballfan]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: ballfan
Beekeeper: You stated, Until there is a live animal test that is 99% + accurate the danger from CWD is a very real issue.

A dot blot ELISA test for CWD, developed by VMRD, Inc., was licensed for CWD testing.

United States Department of Agriculture licensed a CWD dot plot (ELISA) test developed by VMRD, Inc. The test analyzes retropharyngeal lymph node samples and has a turnaround time of approximately 24 hours.

What info I can find on this test doesn't state that it is 99%+ accurate. The cost I found looks to be about $500. per test. Most of the info is from 2003 and this causes me to wonder, if this test is so good why doesn't it have more recent info?

 Originally Posted By: ballfan


Did the Elk released test 99% free?

You didn’t answer my question about the percent of Elk vs Deer. What percent Elk have tested positive vs deer. How many Deer farms exists vs Elk farms?

That’s my point! As a whole, the threat that Elk carrying the disease vs Deer having or carrying it far exceeds that of Deer. Yet the TWRA found Elk suitable or up to their standards. Quote: All elk brought into Tennessee for release go through strict disease testing prior to release. This testing is much more thorough than that required for bringing captive elk into Tennessee. Also, the elk brought into Tennessee will come from areas where health surveillance has been ongoing for several years with no history of significant disease. All of these precautions will greatly minimize the risk of any diseases being introduced into the state.




At the time the elk were being brought into TN the full dangers of CWD were not understood. As the dangers of CWD became more apparent the importation of elk was stopped.

One more question for you. Would the folks that want to deer farm be willing to be responsible for all cost associated with CWD testing and the cost of the measures needed to control it if it were to, in spite of all efforts to prevent it, appear in TN? Since we do not have it in our state now the only way it could get here would be from the imported animals used in Deer Farming.
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#2823742 - 05/07/12 09:34 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
muzzyman71
6 Point


Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 707
Loc: Anderson Co

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Bee Keeper and Diehard Hunter, thank you guys for working so dilligently on this. At a meet n greet it was a pleasure to talk to you guys.
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#2840709 - 05/30/12 10:23 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Cold Creek Mafia]
BowGirl
6 Point


Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 729
Loc: Tennessee

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Good deal
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#2871676 - 07/10/12 10:55 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: JCDEERMAN]
monique06
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Loc: USA

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Sounds really Great!
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#2910093 - 08/16/12 03:25 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: monique06]
nodog
4 Point


Registered: 08/12/12
Posts: 297
Loc: Ohio

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From what I've observed, farming wild animals isn't good and I'd be against any attempt at doing it.
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#2951295 - 09/21/12 07:56 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: nodog]
Yeppers
4 Point


Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 465
Loc: Bartlett, TN

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I'm agin it...
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#2978552 - 10/12/12 09:24 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Yeppers]
Doskil
6 Point


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 764
Loc: NC USA

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"Since we do not have it in our state now the only way it could get here would be from the imported animals used in Deer Farming."

How did it show up then in wild deer in West Virginia miles from any other CWD case?

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#3074053 - 12/11/12 10:09 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ]
contendershooter
4 Point


Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 111
Loc: TN, USA

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the deer farming issue is a two way street...overall from the aerial view, I am against it because there is too much room for deer to be brought in from another state to get the private property owners herd up, which could introduce disease, because that would be the simple way of doing things. But as stated I agree that if a farmer owns property, (which with all of the taxes, do we ever REALLY own anything?) then if they want to farm deer, why not? Maybe it should be done on a trial basis and highly monitored and if it doesn't seem productive, then can the idea.

And on the wild hog issue, if I am not mistaken, they were taken off as game and basically listed as nuisance animals correct? According to page 31 of the 2012-2013 hunting guide you can kill them year around...what is the problem with this and if people are wanting to kill hogs, this is more liberal rules than having them governed by a season, no?

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#3105342 - 01/01/13 11:35 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: ]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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 Originally Posted By: youngandfree
CWD is akin to the big bird and swine flu scare. It made a lot of scientists rich, and sent a lot of Federal $$ to colleges and research institutions all over the country.

Create a crisis, and milk it for all it is worth.


Please, research the costs to taxpayers to try to clean up CWD infected captive & wild w-t deer herds. The operators bear NO liability for what has cost taxpayers million$. EHD is cyclic - CWD is not.
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#3105347 - 01/01/13 11:50 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: contendershooter]
Monty
6 Point


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 509
Loc: Bedford Co.

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 Originally Posted By: contendershooter
...if they want to farm deer, why not? Maybe it should be done on a trial basis and highly monitored and if it doesn't seem productive, then can the idea.


The "why not" answer is w-t deer are illegal for an individual to own in Tennessee - we still honor the public trust doctrine that has been a hallmark of our Nation's wildlife management programs for generations. Another reason is the captive w-t deer are raised almost exclusively for genetic "enhancement" to improve their "trophy" status. Most often hand fed in small enclosures and shot (not hunted) in these pens - sometimes drugged to make it easier on the high-paying shooter.

And on the wild hog issue, if I am not mistaken, they were taken off as game and basically listed as nuisance animals correct? According to page 31 of the 2012-2013 hunting guide you can kill them year around...what is the problem with this and if people are wanting to kill hogs, this is more liberal rules than having them governed by a season, no?

Dead on right. Evidence indicated that some hog hunters were responsible for expanding the populations into other areas of the State. These non-contiguous pockets of hogs were found far enough away from other hogs to pretty well negate the possibility of natural migration. And, yes, the regs are more liberal.
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#3107046 - 01/03/13 05:16 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Monty]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3542
Loc: maury county tn

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I do not see anything wrong with it. while I will never hunt in a high fence I still think if you want to farm deer then do it. there is a lot of money in deer farming in reality it could help the Tennessee economy. the diseases and things really are not there like yal think. people that farm deer keep there herd pretty clean. in fact a free ranging herd probably has more of a chance in getting a diseases then a private herd. I hope they pass it. A bunch of states have been very successful at deer farming I see no harm in it.
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#3107056 - 01/03/13 05:35 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: deerhunter10]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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The danger of importing diseases along with the deer far outweighs any benefit the state would see from his enterprise. These diseases can not be contained in the captive herd.

The states with successful deer farming operations are few and far between. Look at Wisconsin and see what kind of problems their deer farming has caused for their free ranging deer herd.

Deer farming reminds me a lot of the Emu, Ostrich and other farms that turned out to be nothing but a shell game. Look at where these farms get the majority of their income. If it was not for other farms buying their products (semen and live deer)none of them would be profitable.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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#3107146 - 01/03/13 06:57 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3542
Loc: maury county tn

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Alabama texas and pa all have done very well.
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#3107148 - 01/03/13 06:57 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: deerhunter10]
deerhunter10
10 Point


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 3542
Loc: maury county tn

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And Ohio
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#3107165 - 01/03/13 07:16 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: deerhunter10]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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Look at the illegal activities of some of the top deer farms in TX.
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#3108125 - 01/03/13 06:58 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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Here is a site everyone should look at

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/news.detail/ID/2ca586ff9bb3b53783918928a2bf6f03
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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#3178246 - 02/27/13 03:23 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
Deer Boy
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Union City, TN

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I'm all for farmers being able to use their property to raise whatever animals that they want! As far as deer from other states, they have to be tested 5 yr cwd free before they cross state lines. Hope TN would do this also!

As far as the ostrich and emu market, I never saw the desire of millions of hunters looking for a "trophy" ostrich! How does Boone and Crockett score a trophy ostrich anyways? :-P
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#3178264 - 02/27/13 03:38 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Deer Boy
I'm all for farmers being able to use their property to raise whatever animals that they want! As far as deer from other states, they have to be tested 5 yr cwd free before they cross state lines. Hope TN would do this also!

As far as the ostrich and emu market, I never saw the desire of millions of hunters looking for a "trophy" ostrich! How does Boone and Crockett score a trophy ostrich anyways? :-P
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/28/nation/la-na-texas-deer-20120129

Look at this site and you will see just how much attention some of these folks pay to laws. Look at some of the other states that are dealing with outbreaks of CWD and ask yourself if it would be worth the risk to allow these folks to gain a foothold in TN.


Edited by Beekeeper (02/27/13 03:50 PM)
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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#3178268 - 02/27/13 03:42 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: Deer Boy


As far as the ostrich and emu market, I never saw the desire of millions of hunters looking for a "trophy" ostrich! How does Boone and Crockett score a trophy ostrich anyways? :-P
The Ostrich and Emu market was just a shell game that promised farmers an easy way to wealth. I believe the Deer farms are being promoted in just the same way. If deer breeders didn't have new deer farms to sell to they would have to quit being deer breeders.
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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#3178324 - 02/27/13 04:38 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Beekeeper]
Deer Boy
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Union City, TN

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I'm sure any business any where you look someone will break the law! Whenever you start trading money someone is going to find a way to cheat. So why do you want to "dictate" what LAW abiding farmers want to do on their property according to the actions of others?

Do you believe just because there is a "law" on the books that is going to keep illegal deer from coming into the state? How many deer has it stopped so far? How do you know at that deer haven't been brought into Tennessee already from Wisconsin? You don't!

Most people are law abiding and all the deer farmers I know don't even fit the picture you have painted on here. They are law abiding and they sell all their deer to shooting preserves and to other farmers. They don't have to have TN to make a living. Unlike the emu and ostrich farms the preserves buy everything the farmers have to sell! S it's not your "shell game" that you call it!

Also, even if there was no such thing as CWD you would still be on here, on your "high horse" talking about how unethical it is to kill a deer inside a fence. Why not join PETA and talk about how unethical to shoot a cow in a holding pen and serving up a hamburger?

I view it no different than a tree hugger posing his "ethics and ideals" onto everyone else. Let us be Americans and pursue his or her dreams and get out of the way! All we need is more laws and regulations telling everyone what they can and can't do on their own property!

Guess you and Bowriter will gang up here and start bashing me and my beliefs next! Wish we had better things to do!


Edited by Deer Boy (02/27/13 04:39 PM)
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#3178356 - 02/27/13 04:56 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 19470
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

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I remember a few years ago, a guy raising python snakes (in Florida) complaining about how it was NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS what he raised on his own property.
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#3178369 - 02/27/13 05:09 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Deer Boy


I'm sure any business any where you look someone will break the law! Whenever you start trading money someone is going to find a way to cheat. So why do you want to "dictate" what LAW abiding farmers want to do on their property according to the actions of others?

Do you believe just because there is a "law" on the books that is going to keep illegal deer from coming into the state? How many deer has it stopped so far? How do you know at that deer haven't been brought into Tennessee already from Wisconsin? You don't!

Most people are law abiding and all the deer farmers I know don't even fit the picture you have painted on here. They are law abiding and they sell all their deer to shooting preserves and to other farmers. They don't have to have TN to make a living. Unlike the emu and ostrich farms the preserves buy everything the farmers have to sell! S it's not your "shell game" that you call it!

Also, even if there was no such thing as CWD you would still be on here, on your "high horse" talking about how unethical it is to kill a deer inside a fence. Why not join PETA and talk about how unethical to shoot a cow in a holding pen and serving up a hamburger?

I view it no different than a tree hugger posing his "ethics and ideals" onto everyone else. Let us be Americans and pursue his or her dreams and get out of the way! All we need is more laws and regulations telling everyone what they can and can't do on their own property!

Guess you and Bowriter will gang up here and start bashing me and my beliefs next! Wish we had better things to do!
Like you I also believe a farmer should be able to use his land as he sees fit as long as it is legal. A farmer can't grow marijuana, poppies, hemp, Africanized Honeybees and many other things because it is illegal to do so. If there were no danger associated with these products you would see many farmers growing them for a profit. Deer farming falls into the same category,if deer farming posed no risk to the native deer herd it would not bother me a bit to have a deer farm myself.

There is no way that PETA would ever accept me into their ranks, I love to watch the light fade out in the eyes of something I have just put a load of shot, bullet, arrow or anything else I can use, into.

Saturday of this week I hope to reduce a bunch of birds to piles of feathers at the "Pheasant, Chucker and Quail hunt" where they have been pen raised, twirled around in a sack and put out on the ground for my enjoyment!!! \:D
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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#3178487 - 02/27/13 06:59 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point


Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6642
Loc: Nashville

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 Originally Posted By: Deer Boy

As far as the ostrich and emu market, I never saw the desire of millions of hunters looking for a "trophy" ostrich! How does Boone and Crockett score a trophy ostrich anyways? :-P


Boone and Crockett scores ostriches the same way they score high-fenced deer...they don't. It violates their fair chase ethics.
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#3178707 - 02/27/13 10:54 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: BigGameGuy]
Deer Boy
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Union City, TN

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Lol at biggameguy! There goes the ol' "ethics" issue! If high fence is so offensive then shut down the high fence deer hunting "clubs" in TN that's not farmed deer! What's the difference deer is deer.
Your right farmed deer are SCI book animals. SCI does more for the right to hunt and hunters than B&C ever will! Guess you need to shut down the army ammunition hunts also, due to someone's "ethics" might be offended! Next Tennessee will become a right to bait state next, boy that will upset the ethic police!
What does the state care anyways, only thing they're concerned with is controlling the population and pacify the "sportsmanship" complaints and then combine the two.
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#3178769 - 02/28/13 05:08 AM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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LOL at Deer Boy. I don't think he knows the difference in killing a goat tied to a tree and killing a deer in the Cherokee National Forrest!! \:D \:D
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)




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#3179276 - 02/28/13 01:17 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Pursuit Hunter
8 Point


Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2086
Loc: Way out there

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 Originally Posted By: Deer Boy
SCI does more for the right to shoot the biggest trophies with the least hunting skills than B&C ever will!
Fixed it for you.

I'll take B&C's ethics and sportsmanship values over SCI's egos and showmanship any day.

Carry on...
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#3179313 - 02/28/13 02:00 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Pursuit Hunter]
Deer Boy
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Union City, TN

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Pursuit hunter, don't be misquoting me or anyone else! At least you could work for MSNBC with those skills.
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#3179333 - 02/28/13 02:16 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Deer Boy
4 Point


Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Union City, TN

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Beekeeper, what's the difference in shooting a farm raised deer and shooting a farm raised pheasant, or quail that the "guide" has to throw his hat at to make it fly? To me none, they were both raised for a purpose and if that's what you enjoy then have at it! Enjoy yourself that's what is all about, take your family and friends and have a good time! A lot of the deer preserve hunters enjoy time away to hunt and guaranteed a deer, just like you want to enjoy shooting birds without all the work in finding a good place to hunt and putting the foot leather in finding wild birds. Don't blame you, if you have means to pay and hunt congratulations more power to you! But don't throw me under the bus cause I defend someone to have the right to raise those deer!

Btw, yes I have killed deer in Cherokee national forest and no I haven't ever killed a high fence deer, well except at HAAP if you want to count that!
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#3179342 - 02/28/13 02:23 PM Re: deer farming vote postponed [Re: Deer Boy]
Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point


Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 12232
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee

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It is not the high fence part that I object to, it is the dangers of importing deer. There is no dependable live test for CWD at this time.
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
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