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#2206326 - 12/09/10 08:15 PM The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU?
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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For those of you who aren't living with your head in the sand and think everything is sunshine and lollie pops, check this out:


http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/...onomic-collapse
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2206487 - 12/09/10 09:27 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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I would be disappointed if they didn't rehearse.

my only REAL concern is "which direction the barrels will be pointed? To preserve our constitutional government or towards those who threaten the Oligarchy in power"?
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2206519 - 12/09/10 09:51 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I would be disappointed if they didn't rehearse.

my only REAL concern is "which direction the barrels will be pointed? To preserve our constitutional government or towards those who threaten the Oligarchy in power"?




I have faith in our military to make the correct decisions. Most of our troops love their country and would be on our side.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2206532 - 12/09/10 09:59 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

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lol, give me a break. Not in our life time.
JMO

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#2206584 - 12/09/10 10:35 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Locksley
16 Point


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 19733
Loc: Antioch TN

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interesting
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To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;"The greatest pain a man can suffer is to have knowledge of much, and power over nothing" - Herodotus

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#2206815 - 12/10/10 07:40 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
lol, give me a break. Not in our life time.
JMO


No way, no how?

As I said above. Sunshine and lollie pops.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2206856 - 12/10/10 08:04 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
pic
10 Point


Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 2539
Loc: robertson

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
lol, give me a break. Not in our life time.
JMO


Yeah, why worry about it... I'll just leave it for my kids to deal with!!!!

Good Greif!!!!
_________________________
DEMOCRAT(n)- a closet socialist that may own or wave an American flag but has no interest in American values.

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#2207259 - 12/10/10 11:43 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I would be disappointed if they didn't rehearse.

my only REAL concern is "which direction the barrels will be pointed? To preserve our constitutional government or towards those who threaten the Oligarchy in power"?




I have faith in our military to make the correct decisions. Most of our troops love their country and would be on our side.


Most

but did you know there is MS13 graffiti in Iraq?
Judges have been sentencing gang bangers to military service for decades. The US government trains the most violent drug dealers and dregs of society in proficient warfare.

I have the utmost respect for our fighting men and women. They are heros and I cannot express my appreciation enough. I but I also realize that the social engineering of the progressives have effected the possibility and probability of portions of our military non-necessarely having a problem with firing on US citizens.

Not all, not even MOST, but some and enough of them to cause concern.
It's not our sons, daughters, cousins and friends that concern me. It's the gang bangers, non-citizens and "I have nothing to lose" volunteers that don't share our values, history or love of country.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2207264 - 12/10/10 11:47 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
I would be disappointed if they didn't rehearse.

my only REAL concern is "which direction the barrels will be pointed? To preserve our constitutional government or towards those who threaten the Oligarchy in power"?




I have faith in our military to make the correct decisions. Most of our troops love their country and would be on our side.


. It's the gang bangers, non-citizens and "I have nothing to lose" volunteers that don't share our values, history or love of country.



"Let me introduce you to my little friend" ;\)
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207271 - 12/10/10 11:51 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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Gang bangers don't scare me at all.

I could shoot them all day long without any remorse what-so-ever.

I would feel the most remorse for the family that hasn't prepared and has starving children that are desperate and unpredictable.

_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207275 - 12/10/10 11:56 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Posts: 60980
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I wouldn't blink to shoot a gang banger.

But I shudder to think of a nationwide "Katrina" Martial Law, drones and thermal imaging.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2207307 - 12/10/10 12:42 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207506 - 12/10/10 03:51 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Still-n-Quiet
10 Point


Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 4859
Loc: San Antonio, TX

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.


Some of "us," unfortunately, are stuck in big cities. \:\(
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Mike

Searching for the elusive "Moderate" liberal and "Moderate" Muslim. Maybe they are hiding together...

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#2207510 - 12/10/10 03:58 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Still-n-Quiet]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: Still-n-Quiet
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.


Some of "us," unfortunately, are stuck in big cities. \:\(


Find a place to bug out to...

Like Crappie's house... \:D


Edited by FLTENNHUNTER1 (12/10/10 03:59 PM)
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207513 - 12/10/10 04:03 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
44fanatic
12 Point


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 6126
Loc: Clarksville, Montgomery Cnty

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.


If its the Predator, you wont hear it...
_________________________
Bill

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#2207590 - 12/10/10 05:19 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: Still-n-Quiet
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.


Some of "us," unfortunately, are stuck in big cities. \:\(


Find a place to bug out to...

Like Crappie's house... \:D


We're out of toilet paper, just so you know \:D \:D
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2207622 - 12/10/10 05:55 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
Camp
12 Point


Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 5917
Loc: Rutherford County / Mid TN

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\:D \:D

Save those old phone books Crappie! They work well in a pinch. ;\)

But along these lines, have y'all been seeing the riots in England? The masses don't want to tolerate fiscal responsibility now do they? Like a bawling calf being weaned off the teet.

It would/will be far worse in America if it comes to pass.





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#2207634 - 12/10/10 06:00 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
Eric T.
16 Point


Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 11534
Loc: Tampa, FL

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 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: Still-n-Quiet
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.


Some of "us," unfortunately, are stuck in big cities. \:\(


Find a place to bug out to...

Like Crappie's house... \:D


We're out of toilet paper, just so you know \:D \:D


\:D \:D \:D

Plenty of hunting mags layin' around if ya don't mind using slick paper... \:D
_________________________
Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?

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#2207636 - 12/10/10 06:01 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Camp]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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Get this,

The tuition hike in England is a deferred loan. Yes, college will "Cost" 14K now, but they only have to pay back the if/when they acquire a job meeting the minimum salary.

It's not like they have to cough up 14K to go to college, they just have to pay it back once they are one of the "Evil rich".
But their plan to to KEEP their money after spending "YOUR'S" on college.


They are beyond spoiled.

FIRE AT WILL!!!
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2207637 - 12/10/10 06:01 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Camp]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: Camp
\:D \:D

Save those old phone books Crappie! They work well in a pinch. ;\)

But along these lines, have y'all been seeing the riots in England? The masses don't want to tolerate fiscal responsibility now do they? Like a bawling calf being weaned off the teet.

It would/will be far worse in America if it comes to pass.






It WILL be worse. I personally know some liberals and they will burn the cities down if they have to pay back anything.

Look at Greece, it happened for several weeks before things clamed down but that's only because of the money EU and the USA put up to help them out. Who's going to put up the money to help the USA out??
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2207648 - 12/10/10 06:06 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Wildcat]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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The cities need burned down. That's the nest of all these troubles in the first place.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2207690 - 12/10/10 06:29 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

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lol, Get your supplies!!! Make a nuke bunker!!!! 2012 is coming!!!

The topic was "The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU?" lol, Please get a grip. NO, I am not preparing for a collapse and the military is TRAINING, nothing more.
This really scared me, my garage is full of bottled water, canned food, and survival stuff. I will make it now.

Did someone just watch the movie "The Road"?

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#2207740 - 12/10/10 06:52 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Eric T.
16 Point


Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 11534
Loc: Tampa, FL

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What is the purpose of training for the military?

Could it possibly be so they know what to do when bad things happen?

On my ship, we trained for fires, flooding, terrorist attack, etc... Why? In case one or all of those things happen. We didn't train for aliens shooting us with death rays, we trained for likely possibilities, which are by definition POSSIBLE and LIKELY.
_________________________
Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?

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#2207777 - 12/10/10 07:27 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Eric T.]
preds1
12 Point


Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 6369
Loc: Sumner County

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I would think the military would be just as didided as we are. Thanks for the unification zerO.
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http://youtu.be/pqICP295APA

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#2207811 - 12/10/10 07:45 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Camp
12 Point


Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 5917
Loc: Rutherford County / Mid TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: medwc
lol, Get your supplies!!! Make a nuke bunker!!!! 2012 is coming!!!

The topic was "The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU?" lol, Please get a grip. NO, I am not preparing for a collapse and the military is TRAINING, nothing more.
This really scared me, my garage is full of bottled water, canned food, and survival stuff. I will make it now.

Did someone just watch the movie "The Road"?


\:D

Never, never, ever happen. Not in my lifetime! (He say's sarcastically)

One good thing about minimal intelligence..........

It allows one to not just summarily dismiss another's opinion or point of view.

I am not a doomsday predictor but do value others insights and take under consideration their positions. Just as the pendulum swings fully right and fully left, there is plenty of room to hedge one's bets somewhere in the middle with at least limited preparedness or forethought. Be that intectually, monetarily, stategically, physically or any and all of those.

Many in the past could have benefited from not blindly accepting "universally held truths". Such as.........

The sun revolves around the earth, American Indians own all of N. America and will prosper forever into the future living in peaceful harmony with Europeans, the American Colonies will be quickly suppressed and passified by the far superior British regulars, Napolean will conquer and rule Europe, Germany will conquer and rule all of Europe, WWI is originally called "The Great War To END ALL WARS" because there can never be another like this, the roaring 20's and prosperity will last forever (nevermind that thing they called the great depression only a few years later), "civilized" people like Russians will never be forced to result to cannibalism to survive, Hitler is not armorizing for war and there is no need for concern, the Nazi's are now unstoppable and will rule all of Europe, Japan has kicked China's butt and maintains dominion over them and will be the greatest Indo/China/Asian Empire ever, disregard what you saw....those can't be Japanese planes heading towards Pearl Harbor because we are at complete peace with Japan, Russia will be our strongest ally, our "new" greatest enemy (Russia/The Soviet Union) is here to last forever, the sun will never set on "The British Empire", "Dewey Beats Truman", America will support the citizens of Cuba with our FULL military might against the dictator Castro, Yasser Arafat and the PLO are simply a "terrorist organization", the "Euro" will unify Europe and create stability and economic strength for all, we will never allow "rogue nations" to develop nuclear weapons, the "American Dollar" will never be replaced in world commodities trading/base valuation.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, should I continue??????







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#2207859 - 12/10/10 08:03 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Camp]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

Offline
So list the things that have happened and it is the same. Wally world has a sale on water!!! Yall kill me, really!!!
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#2207908 - 12/10/10 08:34 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Camp
12 Point


Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 5917
Loc: Rutherford County / Mid TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: medwc
So list the things that have happened and it is the same.


So are you saying..."It is the same"...considering the things that have happened???? Just some of those I mentioned above.

So life is STILL "just the same" for..........

The American Indians, who helped the Europeans survive when they arrived in America?

Our knowledge of the universe when we decided "we" revolve around the sun and all the advancements derived from Einsteins theory of relativity that wouild have never come to pass with the previous "certainty"?

The founding of America? Against all odds??????

The defeat of Napolean as dictator over Europe?

WWI?

The millions of Jews killed because no one considered Hitler a threat?

The creation of the atomic bomb forced out of Japans expansion?

WWII?

The PLO recognition as a simple "political party"?

The European breakup due to transfer of post war reconstruction to the Soviet Union?

The collapse of British rule in Africa and consequent ethnic cleansing and death of millions?

The rise of China and economic loss in manufacturing in America? (This refers back to your Wally World's comment as well). But anybody with intelligence would only visit WalMart as a last resort. Due to the economic transfer to China.



If you think America is "still the same" despite all these events (which are just minimal in historical accounts) you seriously need to study history!

HEYAL, without the defeat of the British regulars alone, there would be NO PRESENT DAY AMERICA!!!!! Do you not even realize that????

You'd be getting your minimal paycheck in British lbs. instead of dollars. There would be no such thing as The United States Of America!

EVERTHING that happens, changes the course of current and future history!

Go research and study the "butterfly effect".

NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Is, as it would have been, due to any and all of those events. And those are just off the top of my head. There are an unlimited number of others.

The only comment that comes to mind is,

"An endless reservoir of uninhibited ignorance"...Terry Evans



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#2207939 - 12/10/10 08:59 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Camp]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Camp
\:D \:D

Save those old phone books Crappie! They work well in a pinch. ;\)

But along these lines, have y'all been seeing the riots in England? The masses don't want to tolerate fiscal responsibility now do they? Like a bawling calf being weaned off the teet.

It would/will be far worse in America if it comes to pass.







It definitely is getting out of hand.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





Top
#2207943 - 12/10/10 09:01 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: 44fanatic]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: 44fanatic
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
If you hear something overhead that sounds like a flying lawn mower you have about 3 seconds to kiss you ... goodbye!

Besides, the problems are going to be in the inner cities, not where you guys are.


If its the Predator, you wont hear it...


Do they fly too high to hear the prop?
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





Top
#2207950 - 12/10/10 09:05 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: medwc
lol, Get your supplies!!! Make a nuke bunker!!!! 2012 is coming!!!

The topic was "The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU?" lol, Please get a grip. NO, I am not preparing for a collapse and the military is TRAINING, nothing more.
This really scared me, my garage is full of bottled water, canned food, and survival stuff. I will make it now.

Did someone just watch the movie "The Road"?


Nope. Just watched a Communist hell bent on the USA's destruction get ushered into the White House by a bunch of fools that shouldn't be allowed to vote. That was my first clue. It's all been down hill from there.

It's okay if you want to be unprepared. I couldn't care less really.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207953 - 12/10/10 09:07 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Eric T.]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Eric T.
What is the purpose of training for the military?

Could it possibly be so they know what to do when bad things happen?

On my ship, we trained for fires, flooding, terrorist attack, etc... Why? In case one or all of those things happen. We didn't train for aliens shooting us with death rays, we trained for likely possibilities, which are by definition POSSIBLE and LIKELY.



Zachary.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





Top
#2207966 - 12/10/10 09:18 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Camp]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Camp
 Originally Posted By: medwc
So list the things that have happened and it is the same.


So are you saying..."It is the same"...considering the things that have happened???? Just some of those I mentioned above.

So life is STILL "just the same" for..........

The American Indians, who helped the Europeans survive when they arrived in America?

Our knowledge of the universe when we decided "we" revolve around the sun and all the advancements derived from Einsteins theory of relativity that wouild have never come to pass with the previous "certainty"?

The founding of America? Against all odds??????

The defeat of Napolean as dictator over Europe?

WWI?

The millions of Jews killed because no one considered Hitler a threat?

The creation of the atomic bomb forced out of Japans expansion?

WWII?

The PLO recognition as a simple "political party"?

The European breakup due to transfer of post war reconstruction to the Soviet Union?

The collapse of British rule in Africa and consequent ethnic cleansing and death of millions?

The rise of China and economic loss in manufacturing in America? (This refers back to your Wally World's comment as well). But anybody with intelligence would only visit WalMart as a last resort. Due to the economic transfer to China.



If you think America is "still the same" despite all these events (which are just minimal in historical accounts) you seriously need to study history!

HEYAL, without the defeat of the British regulars alone, there would be NO PRESENT DAY AMERICA!!!!! Do you not even realize that????

You'd be getting your minimal paycheck in British lbs. instead of dollars. There would be no such thing as The United States Of America!

EVERTHING that happens, changes the course of current and future history!

Go research and study the "butterfly effect".

NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Is, as it would have been, due to any and all of those events. And those are just off the top of my head. There are an unlimited number of others.

The only comment that comes to mind is,

"An endless reservoir of uninhibited ignorance"...Terry Evans




CL and Eric step aside. Camp is my new hero.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207971 - 12/10/10 09:20 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
GRAMPS
14 Point


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 8600
Loc: Mount Carmel, TN

Offline
Crappie, I agree the cities probably need to be burned down. The only problem is the rats will come out into the country where most of us live looking for food to survive.


Guess I better get busy loading up some more ammo.
_________________________
The older we get....the better we was.

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#2207981 - 12/10/10 09:28 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: GRAMPS]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: GRAMPS
Crappie, I agree the cities probably need to be burned down. The only problem is the rats will come out into the country where most of us live looking for food to survive.


Guess I better get busy loading up some more ammo.


I heard rats taste like chicken...
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2207987 - 12/10/10 09:30 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: Camp
 Originally Posted By: medwc
So list the things that have happened and it is the same.


So are you saying..."It is the same"...considering the things that have happened???? Just some of those I mentioned above.

So life is STILL "just the same" for..........

The American Indians, who helped the Europeans survive when they arrived in America?

Our knowledge of the universe when we decided "we" revolve around the sun and all the advancements derived from Einsteins theory of relativity that wouild have never come to pass with the previous "certainty"?

The founding of America? Against all odds??????

The defeat of Napolean as dictator over Europe?

WWI?

The millions of Jews killed because no one considered Hitler a threat?

The creation of the atomic bomb forced out of Japans expansion?

WWII?

The PLO recognition as a simple "political party"?

The European breakup due to transfer of post war reconstruction to the Soviet Union?

The collapse of British rule in Africa and consequent ethnic cleansing and death of millions?

The rise of China and economic loss in manufacturing in America? (This refers back to your Wally World's comment as well). But anybody with intelligence would only visit WalMart as a last resort. Due to the economic transfer to China.



If you think America is "still the same" despite all these events (which are just minimal in historical accounts) you seriously need to study history!

HEYAL, without the defeat of the British regulars alone, there would be NO PRESENT DAY AMERICA!!!!! Do you not even realize that????

You'd be getting your minimal paycheck in British lbs. instead of dollars. There would be no such thing as The United States Of America!

EVERTHING that happens, changes the course of current and future history!

Go research and study the "butterfly effect".

NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Is, as it would have been, due to any and all of those events. And those are just off the top of my head. There are an unlimited number of others.

The only comment that comes to mind is,

"An endless reservoir of uninhibited ignorance"...Terry Evans




CL and Eric step aside. Camp is my new hero.



That definitely was an outstanding post!!! \:\)
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

Top
#2208058 - 12/10/10 10:24 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
Eric T.
16 Point


Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 11534
Loc: Tampa, FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: Camp
 Originally Posted By: medwc
So list the things that have happened and it is the same.


So are you saying..."It is the same"...considering the things that have happened???? Just some of those I mentioned above.

So life is STILL "just the same" for..........

The American Indians, who helped the Europeans survive when they arrived in America?

Our knowledge of the universe when we decided "we" revolve around the sun and all the advancements derived from Einsteins theory of relativity that wouild have never come to pass with the previous "certainty"?

The founding of America? Against all odds??????

The defeat of Napolean as dictator over Europe?

WWI?

The millions of Jews killed because no one considered Hitler a threat?

The creation of the atomic bomb forced out of Japans expansion?

WWII?

The PLO recognition as a simple "political party"?

The European breakup due to transfer of post war reconstruction to the Soviet Union?

The collapse of British rule in Africa and consequent ethnic cleansing and death of millions?

The rise of China and economic loss in manufacturing in America? (This refers back to your Wally World's comment as well). But anybody with intelligence would only visit WalMart as a last resort. Due to the economic transfer to China.



If you think America is "still the same" despite all these events (which are just minimal in historical accounts) you seriously need to study history!

HEYAL, without the defeat of the British regulars alone, there would be NO PRESENT DAY AMERICA!!!!! Do you not even realize that????

You'd be getting your minimal paycheck in British lbs. instead of dollars. There would be no such thing as The United States Of America!

EVERTHING that happens, changes the course of current and future history!

Go research and study the "butterfly effect".

NOTHING! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Is, as it would have been, due to any and all of those events. And those are just off the top of my head. There are an unlimited number of others.

The only comment that comes to mind is,

"An endless reservoir of uninhibited ignorance"...Terry Evans




CL and Eric step aside. Camp is my new hero.



That definitely was an outstanding post!!! \:\)


Agreed.
_________________________
Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?

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#2208158 - 12/11/10 05:25 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Eric T.]
GRAMPS
14 Point


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 8600
Loc: Mount Carmel, TN

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My eariler comment about rats comming out of the cities was referring to the "two-legged" rats.
_________________________
The older we get....the better we was.

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#2208462 - 12/11/10 10:29 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: GRAMPS]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: GRAMPS
My eariler comment about rats comming out of the cities was referring to the "two-legged" rats.


Understood. It might come down to cannibalism for those who have not prepared.

The unprepared liBeRals will be eating each other while I am eating canned venison... ;\)
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2208726 - 12/11/10 03:16 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
GRAMPS
14 Point


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 8600
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Something I thought about while I was at work today. I am the only house in my neighborhoow with a garden. All my neighbors know I have a garden and usually make fun of my wife and I for raising and canning veggies.

If it hits the fan, I probably need to be more concerned with starving neighbors rather than folks comming from town. I certainly could not feed my entire neighborhood.

Things could sure get ugly fast. \:\(
_________________________
The older we get....the better we was.

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#2209203 - 12/11/10 09:26 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: GRAMPS]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: GRAMPS
Something I thought about while I was at work today. I am the only house in my neighborhoow with a garden. All my neighbors know I have a garden and usually make fun of my wife and I for raising and canning veggies.

If it hits the fan, I probably need to be more concerned with starving neighbors rather than folks comming from town. I certainly could not feed my entire neighborhood.

Things could sure get ugly fast. \:\(


Agreed. I think many people are going to wake up real soon when they see 30-40% price inflation for food by March or April next year.

You need to get to the point of having enough food, water, and other supplies in your house so you can shelter in place if needed.

Working in your garden outside will not be an option when SHTF unless you have enough people to defend it 24-7.

_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2209349 - 12/12/10 12:10 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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Listen to this:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/unified-quest-2011-pentagon-war-games-u-s-economic-meltdown/
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2209844 - 12/12/10 10:56 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

Offline
And read this There is no reasoning with you because...
Good luck if the worse case scenario(extremist view)happens. I will take my chances.
JMO

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#2209865 - 12/12/10 11:10 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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It's a kids newspaper.

Don't worry what people talk about, go back to your play station.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2210096 - 12/12/10 02:07 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Wildcat]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
It's a kids newspaper.

Thank you! Which goes to show that the youth of today know the political fanatics are full of it. I don't worry about what the political fanatics say. There is a reason no one is listening and you know why. Take care.

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#2210151 - 12/12/10 02:42 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
It's a kids newspaper.

Thank you! Which goes to show that the youth of today know the political fanatics are full of it. I don't worry about what the political fanatics say. There is a reason no one is listening and you know why.


You might not know this but you just posted something that the youth of Germany said in 1928 in their "school" papers. Times were hard then and there was political fighting inside Germany with people getting killed by the dozens every day. They also said that those political fanatics like Hilter were "full of it" but they used a couple different words.

Just one more thing. If nobody is listening then explain the RECORD sales of AR rifles since Nov 2008. They sold 4 times the number of AR rifles between Nov 2008 and Jan 1 2010 than they did in all of 2006-2008. Also they sold more ammo to the public in 2009 than they did in 2004-2008.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2210222 - 12/12/10 03:17 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
And read this There is no reasoning with you because...
Good luck if the worse case scenario(extremist view)happens. I will take my chances.
JMO


I don't rely on "luck" when my families survival depends on my ability to protect them. I rely on my intelligence and situational awareness to determine risks and how to minimize them..

Right now the biggest risk to our Nation is our debt. If you do not realize that you are not paying attention.

My preparations are no different than having fire insurance on my house or collision insurance on my car. I pray I don't need it but protect my assets if I do.

Pretty simple if you ask me. You will starve and I won't.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





Top
#2210490 - 12/12/10 06:10 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Eric T.
16 Point


Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 11534
Loc: Tampa, FL

Offline
Guys, quit trying to convince the future victim that he's wrong.

If he won't listen, let him learn the hard way. Maybe he'll survive long enough to regret it.
_________________________
Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?

Top
#2211111 - 12/13/10 06:16 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLIPPER
10 Point


Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 4820
Loc: Niota, Tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: medwc
And read this There is no reasoning with you because...
Good luck if the worse case scenario(extremist view)happens. I will take my chances.
JMO


I don't rely on "luck" when my families survival depends on my ability to protect them. I rely on my intelligence and situational awareness to determine risks and how to minimize them..

Right now the biggest risk to our Nation is our debt. If you do not realize that you are not paying attention.

My preparations are no different than having fire insurance on my house or collision insurance on my car. I pray I don't need it but protect my assets if I do.

Pretty simple if you ask me. You will starve and I won't.



\:D While you were away...I raided you're cubbards...

_________________________
Why kill two birds with one stone when you can kill six with a shotgun?

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#2211253 - 12/13/10 08:44 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLIPPER]
dr
10 Point


Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 4277
Loc: USA

Offline
 Originally Posted By: FLIPPER
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: medwc
And read this There is no reasoning with you because...
Good luck if the worse case scenario(extremist view)happens. I will take my chances.
JMO


I don't rely on "luck" when my families survival depends on my ability to protect them. I rely on my intelligence and situational awareness to determine risks and how to minimize them..

Right now the biggest risk to our Nation is our debt. If you do not realize that you are not paying attention.

My preparations are no different than having fire insurance on my house or collision insurance on my car. I pray I don't need it but protect my assets if I do.

Pretty simple if you ask me. You will starve and I won't.


Fixed it for you....
\:D While you were away...I raided you're cubbards...and got shot in the arse on the way out. If your going to spout liberal garbage, at least learn to SPELL.

_________________________
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him --- better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

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#2211269 - 12/13/10 08:55 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: dr]
FLIPPER
10 Point


Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 4820
Loc: Niota, Tn

Offline
CUBBARDS = CUPBOARDS where I'm from!
_________________________
Why kill two birds with one stone when you can kill six with a shotgun?

Top
#2212465 - 12/13/10 07:49 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLIPPER]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: FLIPPER
 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: medwc
And read this There is no reasoning with you because...
Good luck if the worse case scenario(extremist view)happens. I will take my chances.
JMO


I don't rely on "luck" when my families survival depends on my ability to protect them. I rely on my intelligence and situational awareness to determine risks and how to minimize them..

Right now the biggest risk to our Nation is our debt. If you do not realize that you are not paying attention.

My preparations are no different than having fire insurance on my house or collision insurance on my car. I pray I don't need it but protect my assets if I do.

Pretty simple if you ask me. You will starve and I won't.



\:D While you were away...I raided you're cubbards...



Where did you learn that position, prison?
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2212670 - 12/14/10 12:19 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Camp
12 Point


Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 5917
Loc: Rutherford County / Mid TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: medwc
And read this There is no reasoning with you because...
Good luck if the worse case scenario(extremist view)happens. I will take my chances.
JMO


Seriously, look at the "author's" photo.....JOSHUA
BOSSHARDT

What is he? (and I say "HE" based on his name, NOT his photo because "he" looks kinda trans-gender to me) What, maybe 20???????

Sorry to sound condescending but........ARE YOU SERIOUS???????

Although youth may have intelligence, they cannot have intelligence AND experience, which yields WISDOM!

Some college kid is full of the "wisdom of the world" that I am going to take seriously?

\:D \:D

But he was pretty good at working in obscure "$20 dollar words" for the sake of people thinking him superior. ;\)

And honestly, I did find this quote from that article to be a really nice "double edged sword" even if it was originally meant to be one sided.


......that people feel no need to rationalize when their
opinions are hand-fed to them. As a result, evidence indicates that most individuals do not really understand the significance of the political niches they hang onto
.




Edited by Camp (12/14/10 08:54 AM)
Edit Reason: added comment

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#2212983 - 12/14/10 09:21 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Camp]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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I'm not sure I understand the logic in this disagreement.

There are those who believe that we're headed for a collapse of society and/or economic disaster and they choose to stockpile supplies.

There are those who are comfortable with the direction of our country and world and chose to trust that supplies will always be available.

What is there to fight about? Reality will sort the two in time. It will herd them both towards their own realities.

If History teaches us that our current course is for disaster, it also teaches us that those who ignore the signs don't suffer long.

That last thing I would do right now is argue with someone to the point of convincing them that I have what they'll kill for soon.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2213005 - 12/14/10 09:35 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: ]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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How can it get better when you have THESE people "helping"?

__________

EPA regulations could make it difficult for Americans to stay warm this winter

With reports predicting brutally-cold weather to envelop much of the U.S. in the coming weeks, Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations could make it harder for Americans to stay warm. According to the National Center for Public Policy, the EPA’s regulatory war on greenhouse gas emissions will drastically increase costs for the majority of Americans who get their heat generated from coal.

Coal happens to be the chief emitter of carbon dioxide and other pollutants, making it the EPA’s public enemy number one. And in absence of a comprehensive energy bill, the agency’s strategy has instead been to regulate and cap its use, which is bad news for the country’s coldest regions. [ For complete coverage of politics and policy, go to Yahoo! Politics ]

According to a press release from the National Center for Public Policy, the Congressional Research Service this year has already predicted that the average American household will spend $986 just for heat this winter. As far south as Atlanta, Georgia, hundreds have already waited in line for government assistance programs to help pay their energy bills.

“With millions of Americans unemployed and struggling to keep their homes warm, the need for government assistance will only increase,” said Deneen Borelli of the National Center for Public Policy’s Project21. “Heavy demand and higher prices due to the Obama Administration’s assault on the fossil fuels we rely upon are going to stretch charities to their limits and beyond,” she said in a press release.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/2010...armthiswinter_1
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2213013 - 12/14/10 09:42 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: ]
Crappie Luck Moderator
Non-Typical


Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 60980
Loc: Smith Co.

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Most of us are, Duck.

We are being RULED instead of governed. That and the fact that these rulers are hard-core Marxists and Power hungry elites makes me think the problems coming are not small.
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#2213041 - 12/14/10 10:00 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
Wildcat
Non-Typical


Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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Funny thing here is we see the same things happen all over again.

The 1920's were called the Roaring Twenties in the USA and the Golden Twenties because of the economic boom following the First World War. It was in those years that we broke with traditions and had unprecedented industrial growth, accelerated consumer demand and aspirations, and significant changes in lifestyle.

The Stock Market Crash of 1929 started the Great Depression but the worst of it didn't come until 1933 when it bottomed out. Yet ever though everybody knew the news and it was affecting them worldwide some people choose to ignore it as best as they could, the majority of those people had a job and was able to keep it all though the Great Depression. Ever then in the middle of the Great Depression when the "shtf" they still kept on like nothing happened except to others.

They were lucky they were in the USA. In Europe people were being killed everyday over the money and food and jobless. Tghat led to people like Hilter coming into power.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2213838 - 12/14/10 05:21 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: ]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: DUCK37101
And after the "Great Depression" the U.S.A once again thrived. We WILL rebound.


It took WW II to fix the damange the Great Depression did, only then did the US start to recover.

I hope we don't need WW III to do the same thing.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2213852 - 12/14/10 05:24 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
Eric T.
16 Point


Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 11534
Loc: Tampa, FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck


That last thing I would do right now is argue with someone to the point of convincing them that I have what they'll kill die for soon.


Fixed it for ya.


Edited by Eric T. (12/14/10 05:25 PM)
_________________________
Is a country that would re-elect Baroke Hussein Owebama really worth saving?

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#2213892 - 12/14/10 05:42 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: ]
Wildcat
Non-Typical


Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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 Originally Posted By: DUCK37101
 Originally Posted By: Wildcat
 Originally Posted By: DUCK37101
And after the "Great Depression" the U.S.A once again thrived. We WILL rebound.


It took WW II to fix the damange the Great Depression did, only then did the US start to recover.

I hope we don't need WW III to do the same thing.









We already have our wars to wage. Other countries are fighting the fight along with us too. What sucks most is that some don't consider this fight legit or they think that we need a "WW 3" to justify any kind of future rebound.


If you think these wars we are fighting now are the same as WW II you are sadly mistaken. The US had 10 million men in the Armed Forces. In 1940 dollars we spend 10 times on WW II than we are now and all that money we spend went to AMERICAN COMPANIES AND ANERICA JOBS. We were building almost 2,000 tanks a MONTH, we build 20 times the number od Navy ships we have today. I don't think you ever understand what really happened back then.

For the same thing to happen with todays population we would have to have 19 million men in the Armed Forces and supply them with everything they need.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2213907 - 12/14/10 05:49 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Eric T.]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Eric T.
 Originally Posted By: Crappie Luck


That last thing I would do right now is argue with someone to the point of convincing them that I have what they'll kill die for soon.


Fixed it for ya.


Beat me to it!
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2213917 - 12/14/10 05:56 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
The great people of this Nation that rebuilt our country after the Great Depression and WWII are non-existent now. The majority of our country now are a bunch of free loaders that think they are entitled to my money. We also do not have the manufacturing base required to stage a major comeback. The direction from here is down until all of the freeloaders are purged.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





Top
#2214182 - 12/14/10 08:16 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: ]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
700 billion dollar trade deficit per year. Yeah, people are just running out to buy US products. We do not produce or grow Jack and you know it.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





Top
#2214201 - 12/14/10 08:25 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

Offline
Nothing but sunshine and lollie pops...


10 Signs That Confidence In U.S. Treasuries Is Dying And That Financial Armageddon May Be Approaching

Selling government debt is a gigantic confidence game. For decades, investors all over the globe have gobbled up massive amounts of U.S. debt at incredibly low interest rates because they believed that it was a certainly that they would be paid back and be able to make a little bit of profit on top of it. Unfortunately, things have changed. Confidence is U.S. Treasuries is dying, and if confidence in U.S. government debt completely collapses at some point we could literally be looking at financial Armageddon. Why is that so? Well, when the world totally loses faith in U.S. Treasuries, interest rates on U.S. Treasuries will have to keep going up until enough investors are found to buy them. But much higher interest rates will mean much higher interest on the national debt and thus much higher federal budget deficits. That will erode confidence in U.S. Treasuries even further. In the end, a vicious cycle of eroding confidence and higher interest rates could ultimately lead to hyperinflation as the U.S. government and the Federal Reserve flood the system with endless amounts of paper money to try to keep the system solvent.

Faith in U.S. Treasury bonds is absolutely critical if the world financial system is going to continue to operate in a stable manner. In the post-World War 2 era, U.S. Treasuries have been largely viewed as the absolutely safest investment out there. So if there comes a point when the market for U.S. Treasuries completely collapses, it is going to cause unprecedented financial chaos. The worldwide derivatives market, which is already highly unstable, would almost certainly implode. Credit markets all over the globe would seize up. Global trade would quickly grind to a standstill.

This isn't going to happen overnight (hopefully). Rather, the loss of confidence in U.S. Treasuries is something that is likely to take months or even years to play out. But once that confidence is gone, it is not something that will be able to be rebuilt easily.

Think of it this way - once you drive a car off a cliff, is it easy to reconstruct it?

Of course not.

Well, that is where we are headed with U.S. Treasuries.

The Federal Reserve is flooding the system with new dollars, Barack Obama and the U.S. Congress seem poised to pass a new tax deal which does not include corresponding spending cuts which will cause U.S. government budget deficits to become even more bloated, and there is a tremendous lack of faith both in U.S. political leaders and in the Federal Reserve at this point.

The rest of the world is losing faith that the U.S. government is going to be able to handle all of the debt that it has accumulated. We may be approaching a "tipping point" soon.

The following are 10 signs that confidence in U.S. Treasuries is dying....

#1 The financial community is extremely concerned that the tax deal that Barack Obama is pushing is going to dramatically increase U.S. government budget deficits over the next two years. On Monday, Moody's warned that if Barack Obama's tax deal with the Republicans becomes law, it will increase the likelihood that Moody's could soon be forced to slash the rating of U.S. government debt.

#2 Already there are signs that some bond investors are looking for the exits. Last week, U.S. Treasuries suffered their largest two day sell-off since the collapse of Lehman Brothers back in September 2008.

#3 The yield on 10-year Treasury bonds set a six-month high on Monday before pulling back a bit. Most analysts believe that Treasury yields are going to push significantly higher in coming weeks.

#4 This trend of rising yields has been going on for a while. In fact, yields on 10-year Treasury bonds have been steadily rising since October 7th.

#5 Even before the recent tax deal was announced there were already troubling signs regarding the growth of U.S. government debt. The U.S. government budget deficit rose to $150.4 billion in November, which was the largest November budget deficit ever recorded.

#6 It is not just the new tax deal that has investors around the globe spooked. The truth is that the rest of the globe reacted very negatively to the new round of quantitative easing that the Federal Reserve announced back in November. The Federal Reserve is flooding the system with liquidity and the rest of the world is not amused.

#7 The American people have less faith in the Federal Reserve and in the financial system than at any other point in recent memory. For example, a new Bloomberg National Poll has found that a majority of Americans now want the Federal Reserve to either be held more accountable or to be abolished entirely.

#8 Investors all over the globe are starting to wake up and realize that America's debt problem is unsolvable. David Bloom, the currency chief at HSBC, raised eyebrows when he recently stated that "if yields are rising because people think America's fiscal situation is unsustainable, then its Armaggedon."

#9 There is also a growing feeling among investors that the Federal Reserve simply does not care about the danger of inflation, and this is making bondholders very nervous. Stephen Lewis of Monument Securities recently put it this way....

"There is a feeling that the Fed doesn't care about inflation – in fact, wants more of it – and that is certainly not in the interest of bondholders."

#10 Over the next 12 months, the U.S. government is going to be rolling over trillions of dollars in debt along with all of the new borrowing that it is going to be doing. In fact, the U.S. government is somehow going to have to find a way to finance debt that is equivalent to 27.8 percent of GDP in 2011.

For years our politicians have told us that "deficits don't matter", but the truth is that they do matter. The national debt of the United States is now the biggest debt in the history of the world by far, and yet most Americans do not seem to grasp the absolute financial horror that we are facing as a nation.

In the end, debt is always painful. It can be a lot of fun to run out and buy a beautiful new house, a couple of brand new cars and to run your credit cards up to the max, but eventually it catches up with you. Well, the same thing is now happening to us on a national level.

We are getting to the point where eventually we are not even going to be able to service the debt that we have already piled up. Once that happens we can either declare national bankruptcy or we can try to hyperinflate our way out of trouble.

Meanwhile, the once great U.S. economic machine is dying as well. The only reason we have been able to survive with all of this debt as long as we have is because of how powerful our economy has been.

But over the past couple of decades, the big global corporations that now dominate our economy have shipped thousands of factories and millions of jobs overseas.

The mighty economic machine which is supposed to provide funds to pay off all of this debt is being dismantled right in front of our eyes.

There was no way in the world that U.S. government debt was going to be sustainable even if our economy remained vibrant and healthy. The sad truth is that U.S. government debt is approximately 13 times larger than it was just 30 years ago.

But now that the "real economy" is dying a savage death there is simply no hope that this thing is ever going to turn around. The only thing left to do is to take bets on when the implosion is going to happen.

All of this "great tax cut debate" nonsense going on in Washington D.C. right now is just a bunch of incompetent politicians running around rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Perhaps these tax cuts will provide enough of a short-term economic boost to get many of them re-elected in 2012. Meanwhile, our long-term economic problems continue to get a lot worse.

It has become quite obvious that Barack Obama is completely clueless about the economy, and what is even sadder is that the "highly educated" Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, seems almost equally as clueless.

Unfortunately, Americans have become so dumbed-down that they don't even realize that their leaders are incompetent. In fact, as sad as it is to say, most Americans you will meet on the street probably cannot even tell you what U.S. Treasuries are.

Let us hope and pray that investors around the globe continue to have at least some confidence in U.S. Treasuries for at least a little while longer. When "financial Armageddon" finally does happen, it isn't going to be pleasant for any of us.

So enjoy these happy economic times while you still have them, because at some point things are going to get a whole lot worse.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2214311 - 12/14/10 09:10 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: ]
Wildcat
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Registered: 06/10/00
Posts: 42190
Loc: Western Ky.

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And yet the unemployment went UP the same time.

The problemn here is all we are doing is keeping the US from going down any farther.

We are NOT growing.

Your just buying into the sugar coating.

It's like the windmills, all they are doing is keeping up with population growth. they are NOT increasing the electric output above population growth.
_________________________
Obama, “the very danger the Constitution was designed to avoid." Liberal law professor Jonathan Turley.




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#2214359 - 12/14/10 09:33 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Wildcat]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
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Sunshine and lollie pops.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#2214534 - 12/14/10 11:12 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Bambi Buster
14 Point


Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 8579
Loc: Middle Tennessee

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
The great people of this Nation that rebuilt our country after the Great Depression and WWII are non-existent now. The majority of our country now are a bunch of free loaders that think they are entitled to my money. We also do not have the manufacturing base required to stage a major comeback. The direction from here is down until all of the freeloaders are purged.


Their kind still exists to a degree. Most of them are currently in the military, or have been during the last eight years. I am afraid there are not nearly enough of them though. Also, many will be too young to run for office for several more years, so there's not much hope they can make a difference in time to save the rest of us from ourselves. I concur with the rest of your post.
_________________________
"The American military is like a finely crafted sword. To be effective, it must be wielded by a discerning, skilled and merciless hand."

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#2215099 - 12/15/10 11:07 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Bambi Buster]
Outdoor Enthusiast
6 Point


Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 973
Loc: Carthage, TN

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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

-- Albert Einstein

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#2809039 - 04/16/12 07:12 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

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LMAO!!!



Sooooooooooo FLTENNHUNTER1???

lol, all I am going to say.

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#2809119 - 04/16/12 08:53 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
LMAO!!!



Sooooooooooo FLTENNHUNTER1???

lol, all I am going to say.


Welcome back to the forum! It's been a while since you dared come back in. I'm glad you are back, which one are you?

_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3278877 - 06/30/13 07:56 AM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
medwc
8 Point


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 1465
Loc: Clarksville, TN, hunt FCKY an...

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Still has NOT happened.
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#3279100 - 06/30/13 03:55 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
sgtwebb1
14 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 9950
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I remember this topic, and many more like it, before and since.
None of us give a date, we just know that we're headed in the wrong direction, gathering speed, and something bad is going to happen, inevitably, sooner rather than later.

Keep drinking the koolaid, at last there's still ice in it.
_________________________
~~Death from above~~
)))---------------->>


Visit my Blog:
Sons of LiberTea Blog

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#3279164 - 06/30/13 05:45 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
Crappie Luck Moderator
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Posts: 60980
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 Originally Posted By: medwc
Still has NOT happened.



Hitler
June 5th, 1944
_________________________
"To find out who your real rulers are, simply look to those whom you CANNOT criticize..."
--Voltaire

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#3279310 - 06/30/13 09:18 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3952
Loc: Knoxville TN

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: GRAMPS
Crappie, I agree the cities probably need to be burned down. The only problem is the rats will come out into the country where most of us live looking for food to survive.


Guess I better get busy loading up some more ammo.


I heard rats taste like chicken...


Rats, and dogs make good meals
_________________________
Semper Fi

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#3279316 - 06/30/13 09:22 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: FLTENNHUNTER1]
Stalkhunter
10 Point


Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 3952
Loc: Knoxville TN

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 Originally Posted By: FLTENNHUNTER1
 Originally Posted By: medwc
LMAO!!!



Sooooooooooo FLTENNHUNTER1???

lol, all I am going to say.


Welcome back to the forum! It's been a while since you dared come back in. I'm glad you are back, which one are you?



Fletch your wasting your breath on that Person.
_________________________
Semper Fi

Μολων λαβε
I am a cancer Killer.

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#3280103 - 07/01/13 08:05 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
Still has NOT happened.


Neither did our meeting.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3280622 - 07/02/13 12:22 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Crappie Luck]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Middle TN

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Yep, all them hard workin' country folk don't get no government assistance do they.
_________________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken

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#3280705 - 07/02/13 01:43 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: OHVATN]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Middle TN

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Whether you prep for a Mad Max world and have 1-2 years of food, 10,000 rounds of .223, and 500 cases of beans or only prep for a week or two without food and water due to hurricanes, floods, or other natural disasters, only a fool does not prep.

I strongly believe there will be an economic collapse leading to social disorder, and quite possibly social and political collapse in the USA. At one time, I held to the view of the collapse being a "Mad Max" scenario. While such a scenario is wholly within the realm of (near) possibility as the result of global pandemic, solar flare EMP (see Carrington Event 1859 and consider what would happen today if a similar solar event occurred), WWIII, peak everything, climate change, or even an asteroid hit, I now believe that a global currency collapse is the more likely. It will be a collapse for many, probably 90% or more of Americans, and not just those lazy free-loaders, but many of us preppers as well. That's just reality. As Voltaire said, "all fiat currency eventually reaches its intrinsic value. Zero." Beginning in 1971, accelerating during the Reagan years, and with the afterburners on after the Rubinites took control during the Clinton, Bush II, and Obama years, we have financialized our economy to the point that financial services account for 25% of GDP, while manufacturing (i.e., actually producing something of value) is a mere 9%. In the process, we have induced a multi-decade credit-fueled consumption binge as average wages for most have stagnated at 1970s levels. Likewise, we have created a vast swath of a rentier society from the urban/rural "free loaders", corporatacracy, to the Wall STreet bankers skimming rents off the productive parts of society.

What I believe is more likely to occur is a massive hyperinflation as the US dollar is replaced as the global reserve currency. Ultimately, by the US's own actions, this is accelerating (and, by the way, this is not a Democrat v. Republican issue; both parties are to blame). This will be a violent collapse for many (most) Americans. They will see their standards of living hit third world levels overnight. They will wake up on Friday and learn all banks are closed for a holiday and a week later will learn that every $1 in their bank savings/checking accounts has been devalued to $0.10.

Many parts of America have been collapsing for decades. Much of rural America. Detroit. Youngstown, Ohio. Etc. I struggle with where to ride out a collapse if it degenerates into social and political collapse and chaos. While I wish I had that farm to bug out to, I don't (at least not now). However, check out the Ferfal website. He'll tell you that during Argentina's currency collapse and hyperinflation of the early 2000s, fleeing to the country would have gotten you killed. During the Weimar hyperinflation, people left the cities by the thousands and simply took over farms. I don't care how many rounds of ammo you have or how much of a badass you think you are. You can't stay awake 24/7. Much easier to access necessary supplies via black market trading in the cities and more defensible positions than isolated rural retreats. A farm is a target for hungry gang bangers while a house in the city is just another house. Indeed, more rural people live in poverty than do those in cities. Suburbia has the greatest increase in people living in poverty than do the cities. So, if by "free loader" one means someone living in poverty and receiving welfare, the "rats" are already in the country (and there are more country rats than city rats). If I had a choice, I would choose a rural location, but only if we had the time to become accepted into the local community. Nonetheless, in a collapse survival scenario, cities and suburban locations do have some distinct advantages over rural locations.

I don't place any faith in the U.S. military. While there are many soldiers, sailors, and airmen that will stick to their oaths and will defend us, I believe there are an equal number that will "go along to get along." Plus, the post about all of the gang bangers in the military is prescient. I can easily see a civil war developing between constitutionalits and anti-constitutionalists.

The people who really concern me are the police. After 9-11, local and state police have been militarized. If things really do degenerate into a Mad Max scenario, I see these guys throwing in their lot with the local war lords. If not, as police departments are cut way back during the hyperinflation, there will be a lot of heavily armed, trained, yet violent personalities roaming around.
_________________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken

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#3280714 - 07/02/13 02:04 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: OHVATN]
Kevin
8 Point


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 2014
Loc: Jackson, TN

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I'll be on a farm. With not a tree around for 1000sq yards. With family of about 30.

Trusting God in all things.
_________________________
A country boy can survive.

A bad day fishing is better than a good day of work.

Roll Tide

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#3280863 - 07/02/13 05:39 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: Kevin]
sgtwebb1
14 Point


Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 9950
Loc: Ooltewah/Harrison TN, USA

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OHVATN,

you just described almost the exact scenario in James Rawles book "Patriots".

If you haven't read it, grab it off Amazon, it's a classic, must-read for any and all 'preppers'.
_________________________
~~Death from above~~
)))---------------->>


Visit my Blog:
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#3280944 - 07/02/13 07:27 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: sgtwebb1]
FLTENNHUNTER1
16 Point


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 16206
Loc: Tampa FL

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OHVATN,

We think alike. The key to surviving the scenario(s) you describe in your post is to join up with like minded individuals to be able to provide security 24x7. I have met several TNDeer members and some like minded neighbors in Tennessee. If I am able to get to my place in Tennessee, I have know doubt in my mind I have built relationships with enough like minded individuals including several ex-military to be able to defend against anything short of a platoon.

Over the last 6 months I have dropped 35 pounds of fat, gained several pounds of muscle, and am almost in the best shape of my life. I am not 28 years old, but I definitely have increased my strength and stamina. Yeah, I have been preparing for a fight both mentally and physically.

I would advise everyone else to do the same. As far as people harassing about the collapse not happening, I couldn't care less what they think. I will just step over their emaciated bodies if the time comes. Their lack of preparations will eventually cost them their lives.

We have been monetizing our debt for quite awhile now. I am not sure if we will experience a deflationary crisis, a hyper-inflationary crisis, or some type of hyper-inflationary great depression, but something has to give. We cannot keep printing money forever, and when the printing stops, the fun will begin.

I also have researched Ferfal's writings. He has a ton of real life information available to all of us. During Argentina's hyper-inflation, some people continued to work daily jobs. They had to literally run a gauntlet everyday they went to work. They literally blew through red lights and stop signs because if you stopped, you would be robbed. Robbery and violent crime was rampant. I believe this might happen here also. WROL would happen relatively fast; handguns will be the weapon of choice (you can't conceal an AR15), and we will be trading on the black market using links from gold chains and small gold and silver rings because the dollar will be worthless.

Nothing has changed since 2008. NOTHING. There is no recovery, and the bubble is bigger than it was before. The longer the Fed is able to keep this charade going, the harder the true recovery will be. And I am talking YEARS to recover. We will see civil unrest in this country sooner or later.

Prepare accordingly.
_________________________
The Second Amendment - George Washington didn't use free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine





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#3281536 - 07/03/13 12:21 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: sgtwebb1]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Middle TN

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Used to frequent Mr. Rawle's site, but have not read his book. May need to get a copy. Thanks for the advice.
_________________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken

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#3281546 - 07/03/13 12:34 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: OHVATN]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
FLTENNHUNTER 1, I've noticed that as well.

You hit on a very important point that all preppers must have at the top of their list of "preps" and that is a group or community of like-minded individuals for mutual aid and defense. And, getting in shape is extremely important. I'm not 28 anymore either and could stand to lose a few pounds but have always tried to stay in shape since my ball playing days ended. Also helps with hunting.

While I don't think a Mad Max scenario will develop, I do think based on what you point out that we will see the USA decline to a third world standard of living for most, a very, very small middle class of professionals providing services for a 0.1% profanely wealth oligarchy. Given the typical American, this will result in widespread civil disorder. If the Detroit police are telling people don't come into Detroit today, just imagine what most, if not all, cities will be like in this likely scenario. I don't think it will be limited to the cities, however.

The far flung US military will not be maintainable in this situation. With the collapse of the dollar, fuel prices alone will dictate the unwind of the empire. Will a president leave them overseas to fend for themselves? Depending on the circumstances, I can easily see a President Obama doing see. In any event, if they do return, there will be many discharged into a depression economy. Most will return to their families, many will have axes to grind and could end up in the employ of the various strong men that will arise. Same with the police. No way will civil order be capable of being maintained and, thus, when your community of likeminded individuals comes into play.
_________________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken

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#3281551 - 07/03/13 12:43 PM Re: The U.S. Military is preparing for a collapse, RU? [Re: medwc]
OHVATN
4 Point


Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 376
Loc: Middle TN

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 Originally Posted By: medwc
Still has NOT happened.


If you are Egyptian it did. If you are Syrian it did. If you are a Cypriot or Greek, it did. If you are Portugese, it's starting right now. If you are Japanese, it's right around the corner if "it" hasn't already happened to you.

You see, you are a man of a small, parochial mind unable or incapable of understanding that you live in a globally interconnected world. That student in Cairo, that factory worker in China, and that father in Lisbon are all part of your economy now.
_________________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." H. L. Mencken

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