#2166631 - 11/15/10 08:14 PM
No blood or deer lost?
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BDS05
8 Point
Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1892
Loc: tn
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I myself have lost my first deer this year with very little blood on what I thought was a good shot. I've seen so many other threads of others losing deer as well, and if not losing them, then it being a miracle to the deer being found, whether that be from no blood or little blood. Well one was enough and something is going to have to change. I'm still convinced I made a near perfect shot on this deer.
My question is what should be done, from those of you who have lost or nearly lost them? I shoot a 50. Encore Pro with 100 gr./ 777 pellets and a 300 gr. SuperGlide Sabot. Maybe add to the 100 gr. and up to 150 gr., sacrificing a little accuracy.(My furthest shot will be 100 yrds. roughly with this gun). But what bullet? I was looking at the Barnes Expander as weel as the PBs. I've heard a lot who hate or love the PB, but no one really saying why they hate it..?
I know their are threads on particular bullets and links to those are not what I'm looking for. What have you experienced and what are you shooting with?
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#2166635 - 11/15/10 08:16 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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litilman
6 Point
Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 757
Loc: North Al
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i shoot pb's, love them. great expansion, i shoot the 245 gr, 1.5" groups at 100 yds.
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#2166638 - 11/15/10 08:18 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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knightrider
10 Point
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4765
Loc: claiborne
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their is no way a GOOD shot in vitals with a 300 grain bullet will not leave a good blood trail,that is a hole the size of your thumb in the vitals of a deer,it will bleed,150 grain is not needed to kill deer with a 300 grain bullet
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#2166658 - 11/15/10 08:23 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: knightrider]
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BDS05
8 Point
Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1892
Loc: tn
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Exactly what I thought Knight.. I'm convinced it can happen otherwise now though. But once again, I'm looking for solutions to this asking what y'all shoot as well as experience. Not your expertise on ballistics of exactly what will happen in every situation. And to clarify beforehand, I'm not trying to be a smart-ellic, just looking for a simple answer.
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#2166662 - 11/15/10 08:24 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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knightrider
10 Point
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4765
Loc: claiborne
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cant help you there i use the old school xtp's and have never had one not do its job when i did
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behold the lamb of GOD,when he nocks please answer it may be your last chance!!!!
happy hunters against armchair biology
killing tomorrows trophies today
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#2166689 - 11/15/10 08:31 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: litilman]
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jetwrnch
8 Point
Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 1253
Loc: Clinton
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The problem with PBs and Encores is bore diameter. If it loads really easily it can unseat from the charge just as easy. Driving around, walking with the muzzle down etc. can cause the PB to slip towards the muzzle resulting in extreme pressure when fired. Don't fall into the more powder trap. It's a gimmick to sell "magnum" muzzleloaders. Diminishing returns comes into play around 100 grains. Melted and deformed sabots, tumbling bullets and poor accuracy for minimal gain. The Barnes Expander 300 grain is the most accurate bullet in MY Encore. Your mileage may vary. Devastating on deer. I shot a doe through a 3" sapling. It was a mistake back in my high power scope days but impressive none the less. TC will not tell you the bore diameter to help you choose the right bullet/sabot combination, so trial and error or slugging the barrel are your options.
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#2166690 - 11/15/10 08:31 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: knightrider]
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m_allison71
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1112
Loc: Castalian Springs, TN
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Simple answer, put the bullet in the right place, whatever bullet you use, and take home your deer.
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#2166717 - 11/15/10 08:35 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: knightrider]
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fishboy1
14 Point
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 9698
Loc: Warren Co
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Anytime I have a mystery miss I start eliminating potential issues.
Scope mounts and rings tight? Shoot gun to check zero.
Possiblity of deflection? A small twig or stick can deflect even a heavy MZ bullet enough to cause a miss or bad hit.
Review shot again from the stand, where was deer standing? Did I have a steady rest? Did I jerk the trigger?
I have been shooting the hornady 300gr xtp mag bullets with excellent results. My old mz liked the 240 gr xtp mags better but this one wont group them well.
Never made a "good" shot without a blood trail or deer lying in a pile as soon as the smoke cleared.
Edited by fishboy1 (11/15/10 08:36 PM)
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#2166721 - 11/15/10 08:36 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: m_allison71]
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muddyboots
12 Point
Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 5913
Loc: savannah, tn., usa
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Barnes
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#2166743 - 11/15/10 08:41 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: jetwrnch]
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BDS05
8 Point
Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1892
Loc: tn
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The problem with PBs and Encores is bore diameter. If it loads really easily it can unseat from the charge just as easy. Driving around, walking with the muzzle down etc. can cause the PB to slip towards the muzzle resulting in extreme pressure when fired. Don't fall into the more powder trap. It's a gimmick to sell "magnum" muzzleloaders. Diminishing returns comes into play around 100 grains. Melted and deformed sabots, tumbling bullets and poor accuracy for minimal gain. The Barnes Expander 300 grain is the most accurate bullet in MY Encore. Your mileage may vary. Devastating on deer. I shot a doe through a 3" sapling. It was a mistake back in my high power scope days but impressive none the less. TC will not tell you the bore diameter to help you choose the right bullet/sabot combination, so trial and error or slugging the barrel are your options.
Thanks Jet, that's what I was looking for.
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#2166751 - 11/15/10 08:44 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: muddyboots]
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cecil30-30
16 Point
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 13189
Loc: Morgan Co
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I shot a big doe this morning at 50yds with the hornady FPB..All I found was a pinch of grey hair where she was standing.No blood at all,i looked for an hour and a half with out finding any sign of which way she went or anything else that would mean I hit her..I think this kinda thing just happens sometimes..It could be shot angle,or even if you think you made a perfect shot,you can always jerk the gun at just the last sec and cause your shot to be off just a little.Like I said,I found no blood what so ever,just a pinch of hair..Im not blameing the bullet,because i have killed 4 other deer with this bullet which resulted in great blood trails..I think if you deer hunt long enough,it will happen..
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#2166754 - 11/15/10 08:46 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: m_allison71]
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BDS05
8 Point
Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1892
Loc: tn
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Simple answer, put the bullet in the right place, whatever bullet you use, and take home your deer.
I take it that's why they make so many different bullets and so many people hate or love the same thing? Let me clarify the question.. I'm looking for something to cause more of a blood trail if not just flop em over. Not one with more of a possibility to not have a complete pass through, as I've read in previous.
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Be content with what you have, rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.
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#2166760 - 11/15/10 08:50 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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BDS05
8 Point
Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1892
Loc: tn
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Cecil, I'm not blaming the bullet. I just don't want to take any chances. I've read how a lot of people are having this problem with the blood and I just want to try and avoid it. But I appreciate the part about the PBs.. Another pro to them..
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Be content with what you have, rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.
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#2166763 - 11/15/10 08:51 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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fourwheeler431
14 Point
Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 8094
Loc: Powell
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I've heard the 405gr PB is a pretty devastating bullet as, it's all lead. I haven't shot them my self though.
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#2167362 - 11/16/10 07:46 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: fourwheeler431]
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m_allison71
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1112
Loc: Castalian Springs, TN
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Let me say, I do not believe "good shot" and "lost deer" go together well at all.
They make different bullets because not all guns shoot them the same. People love or hate them for what the gun does with them as much as for what they do.
I like Barnes Expanderz. They do an amazing amount of damage with alot of blood. If my gun didn't shoot them well, that wouldn't matter. Pick a bullet that your gun likes and put it in the vitals.
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#2167488 - 11/16/10 08:46 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: m_allison71]
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Wobblyshot1
6 Point
Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 902
Loc: Rutherford County
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Simple answer, put the bullet in the right place, whatever bullet you use, and take home your deer.
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#2167618 - 11/16/10 09:31 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: Wobblyshot1]
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BDS05
8 Point
Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 1892
Loc: tn
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Lol ok Allison thank you. Is what I was looking for is what you said about the barnes with their expansion. I realize a bullet in the vitals will kill a deer but I also realize different bullets will have different damage effects which once again, is what I was getting at.
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Be content with what you have, rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.
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#2167684 - 11/16/10 09:54 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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m_allison71
8 Point
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 1112
Loc: Castalian Springs, TN
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I shot a doe yesterday with a Barnes. There was blood splatter 6 feet on the other side of where she stood and a heavy trail to her, 35 yards away. Lungs came out in pieces.
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#2167865 - 11/16/10 11:10 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: m_allison71]
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skynimrod
10 Point
Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 2543
Loc: Bellevue Tn
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Yup Barnes!
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#2167873 - 11/16/10 11:13 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: skynimrod]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
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Loc: TN
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Hornady XTP's have performed flawlessly for me for many years now.
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#2168002 - 11/16/10 11:54 AM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: Wobblyshot1]
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mathews338
10 Point
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3974
Loc: jackson co.
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Simple answer, put the bullet in the right place, whatever bullet you use, and take home your deer. I second That!!!
i used to shoot the barnes and loved them but the gun i have now likes the shockwave better
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#2168016 - 11/16/10 12:00 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: BDS05]
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LSUtigers
8 Point
Registered: 07/21/10
Posts: 1087
Loc: tn
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100 gr pellets and pb 245's bt no deer lost yeat but a lot on the wall
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#2168075 - 11/16/10 12:30 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: LSUtigers]
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Big Horn
Spike
Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 67
Loc: West Tn
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I have a TC Pro Hunter and I shoot TC 200gr with 100 gr of white hot powder; no problems or issues.Guys, deer is a thin skin animal.You dont have to shoot the big bullets to kill them.This isnt rocket science.Your not shooting ranges a high power rifle will. I shoot 1" groups at 200 yrds. Like I said before " not rocket science".
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#2168160 - 11/16/10 01:27 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: Big Horn]
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Stovepipe
18 Point
Registered: 09/21/07
Posts: 21673
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I shoot 1" groups at 200 yrds. Like I said before " not rocket science". 
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#2168164 - 11/16/10 01:28 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: knightrider]
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RAFI
10 Point
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 2552
Loc: Tn
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their is no way a GOOD shot in vitals with a 300 grain bullet will not leave a good blood trail,that is a hole the size of your thumb in the vitals of a deer,it will bleed,150 grain is not needed to kill deer with a 300 grain bullet
i shot a doe with the barnes expander 300.It was quartering and I hit it in the shoulder and exited in front of the back hip.Found about 5 spots along the trail.Deer went about 60 yards so yes it can happen.ive seen several deer that had perfect shots made on them with all types of weapons that didn't leave much of a blood trail.
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#2168261 - 11/16/10 02:04 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: RAFI]
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knightrider
10 Point
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4765
Loc: claiborne
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their is no way a GOOD shot in vitals with a 300 grain bullet will not leave a good blood trail,that is a hole the size of your thumb in the vitals of a deer,it will bleed,150 grain is not needed to kill deer with a 300 grain bullet i shot a doe with the barnes expander 300.It was quartering and I hit it in the shoulder and exited in front of the back hip.Found about 5 spots along the trail.Deer went about 60 yards so yes it can happen.ive seen several deer that had perfect shots made on them with all types of weapons that didn't leave much of a blood trail.
Edited by knightrider (11/16/10 02:11 PM)
_________________________
behold the lamb of GOD,when he nocks please answer it may be your last chance!!!!
happy hunters against armchair biology
killing tomorrows trophies today
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#2168278 - 11/16/10 02:10 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: knightrider]
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nathan stone
TnDeer Old Timer
4 Point
Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 338
Loc: Hendersonville, TN
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Most of the bleeding is done thru the exit wound which is generally much larger in diameter. If you hit a shoulder on the way in most likely it's not going to penetrate the other shoulder, therefore no exit and a thin trail.
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#2168568 - 11/16/10 04:43 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: knightrider]
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RAFI
10 Point
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 2552
Loc: Tn
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their is no way a GOOD shot in vitals with a 300 grain bullet will not leave a good blood trail,that is a hole the size of your thumb in the vitals of a deer,it will bleed,150 grain is not needed to kill deer with a 300 grain bullet i shot a doe with the barnes expander 300.It was quartering and I hit it in the shoulder and exited in front of the back hip.Found about 5 spots along the trail.Deer went about 60 yards so yes it can happen.ive seen several deer that had perfect shots made on them with all types of weapons that didn't leave much of a blood trail. quartering to you and out infront of back hip,there is alot of fat and meat to get in the way of blood trail,broadside through vitals no fat and meat to stop blood =good bloodtrail,granted any angle through the vitals will give a kill but not always a bloodtrail so to me GOOD shot is broadside vitals giving you the bloodtrail not just the kill,dont take me wrong i will angle through anyway possible to vitals,but i know why i didnt have blood trail if its angled shots,
That was the most recent deer.We have shot other broadside with the same results of course most of the time it was with those sucky pb bullets.lol I also shot several with my .270 that didn't bleed even though it was a good shot.Most of the time they do but because you don't find a great blood trail doesn't mean it was a bad shot.
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#2168805 - 11/16/10 06:33 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: RAFI]
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Buckhunter72
6 Point
Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 699
Loc: Wilson and Cannon County
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Seen three deer shot with 245 grain powerbelts this year,
#1 mine, went in just behind shoulder and lodged in opposite shoulder. good blood and ran 20 yards.
#2 brother in laws, went 10 feet and completly bled out, not one drop of blood left in the deer.
#3 friends, perfect double lung shot. deer went 100 yards and not one single drop of blood was ever found.
All three deer recovered.
All shot placements were within inches of each other with different results, all with the same bullet and 150 grains of pyrodex pellets.
Every situation in deer hunting seems to end up differently. There is no telling how many times I have been involved in a recovery, that I said "I have never seen that happen before", and I have been involved in hundreds of recoveries.
Edited by Buckhunter72 (11/16/10 06:35 PM)
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#2169002 - 11/16/10 07:33 PM
Re: No blood or deer lost?
[Re: Winchester]
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Cy
6 Point
Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 740
Loc: Wears Valley & Cannon County
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Hornady XTP's have performed flawlessly for me for many years now.
Yup. 90 grains of Triple 7 put an XTP through both shoulders of a fair sized buck last week. (I didn't judge the lead very well.)
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