#2143599 - 11/02/10 06:23 PM
Mature Buck Density
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Reemus Buckshot
8 Point
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: Germantown, TN
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I remember reading a post by BSK describing how there are actually several good mature bucks on most properties and when he catches a glimpse of them on his cameras, it gives him a little more motivation to hunt hard. My question is...are these bucks so rarely seen because they are nearly 100% nocturnal (excluding the rut) or because they are just extremely smart for a deer and know how to travel without being detected?
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#2143611 - 11/02/10 06:33 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: Reemus Buckshot]
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whistlinwingman
8 Point
Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1824
Loc: Morristown
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Both. But I'd say being nocturnal is the main reason. I think these bucks travel precautiously at night as much as they would in the day.
_________________________
"I'm a great believer in luck, I find the harder I work the more I have it" -Thomas Jefferson
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#2143671 - 11/02/10 06:57 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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gober88
8 Point
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 1721
Loc: Hendersonville Tn us
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Yes WWM I feel you are 100% correct. That's why we see monsters killed on the road.
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Hey that was the tree I was going to climb!
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#2143676 - 11/02/10 06:59 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: gober88]
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TNTomtaker01
10 Point
Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 2835
Loc: Middle
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They cheat and move at night.
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"Smart is when you believe only half of what you hear. Brilliant is when you know which half to believe"
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#2143686 - 11/02/10 07:10 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: TNTomtaker01]
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BigCam50
8 Point
Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2337
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Ya almost all of my mature bucks have been at night on my trail cams!
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#2143959 - 11/02/10 08:51 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: BigCam50]
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W.Seay
12 Point
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 7153
Loc: Collierville,TN.
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Because they have the ability to adapt VERY QUICKLY to pressure and they are finely tuned survival machines!
Edited by W.Seay (11/02/10 08:52 PM)
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To one with faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.
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#2144332 - 11/03/10 04:35 AM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: W.Seay]
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Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 16933
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.
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Nocturnal, knowing where to move, knowing when to move, knowing where you move, and sticking to dense locations where they can't be seen when they do move.
Edited by Mike Belt (11/03/10 04:36 AM)
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#2144481 - 11/03/10 07:17 AM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: Reemus Buckshot]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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My question is...are these bucks so rarely seen because they are nearly 100% nocturnal (excluding the rut) or because they are just extremely smart for a deer and know how to travel without being detected?
The answer is "both," but primarily the nocturnal part. Hard to kill a deer that never moves in daylight. And the older a buck is, the higher the percent of the pictures I get of him that are at night. Generally, by the time a buck reaches 5 1/2, every picture I get of him will be at night.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2144586 - 11/03/10 08:07 AM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: BSK]
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Reemus Buckshot
8 Point
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 1064
Loc: Germantown, TN
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My question is...are these bucks so rarely seen because they are nearly 100% nocturnal (excluding the rut) or because they are just extremely smart for a deer and know how to travel without being detected?
The answer is "both," but primarily the nocturnal part. Hard to kill a deer that never moves in daylight. And the older a buck is, the higher the percent of the pictures I get of him that are at night. Generally, by the time a buck reaches 5 1/2, every picture I get of him will be at night.
On average in Unit L where deer populations are doing well...how many 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 bucks will be on say 1000acres? I know some of their square mile home ranges will over lap, but I am interested to know how many different mature bucks actually live in the area even though you could never see them.
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#2145088 - 11/03/10 11:53 AM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: Reemus Buckshot]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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On average in Unit L where deer populations are doing well...how many 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 bucks will be on say 1000acres? I know some of their square mile home ranges will over lap, but I am interested to know how many different mature bucks actually live in the area even though you could never see them.
Mature bucks- probably only 1 or 2 per 1000 acres. There just aren't that many truly mature bucks out there. The trail cam forum is quite decieving- most aren't posting pics of their yearlings or many 2.5 yr olds.
A good example... on my properties, we restrict harvest of bucks until they are at least 3.5 yrs old... out of around 30-35 different bucks photographed last year, only 2 were 4.5 yrs of age. This year, we've gotten another 30 or 35 different bucks, only 1 5.5 yr old and zero 4.5 yr olds.
Now I will say, we're getting a TON of respectable 115"-125" 3.5 yr olds every year. But they are just a little too tempting for the neighbors to pass up at that stage, so actual recruitment into maturity is very low.
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#2145092 - 11/03/10 11:55 AM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: megalomaniac]
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UTGrad
12 Point
Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 5742
Loc: Franklin, TN
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Are large bucks nocturnal even during the rut?
Is there any chasing at night?
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"Drop kick me Jesus through the goal post of life"
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#2145105 - 11/03/10 11:58 AM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: UTGrad]
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Bullfrog
4 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Ky Lake
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Are large bucks nocturnal even during the rut?
Is there any chasing at night?
A whole lot more, i'd say at night, than during the day.
Edited by Bullfrog (11/03/10 11:58 AM)
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#2145131 - 11/03/10 12:11 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: Reemus Buckshot]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6354
Loc: Nashville
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On average in Unit L where deer populations are doing well...how many 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 bucks will be on say 1000acres? I know some of their square mile home ranges will over lap, but I am interested to know how many different mature bucks actually live in the area even though you could never see them.
Remember, even if you do everything right, mature bucks will make up only a very small portion of your population, so you'll probably be looking at 3 or less on 1,000 acres.
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#2145152 - 11/03/10 12:23 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25246
Loc: TN
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To answer the original question, Both!
And for the 1,000 acres it will vary greatly on the habitat and terrain of the acreage. Some tracts will cater much more to the needs of a mature buck, while some very little.
Mature bucks are a completely different creature than the average deer for most of the year. Hunting them exclusively and being consistently succesful takes a much different approach vs. just deer hunting, IMO anyway.
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#2145232 - 11/03/10 12:56 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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oldmanelrod
6 Point
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 536
Loc: TN/AL state line
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Both. But I'd say being nocturnal is the main reason. I think these bucks travel precautiously at night as much as they would in the day.
x2
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#2145301 - 11/03/10 01:22 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: Reemus Buckshot]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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Hunting them exclusively and being consistently succesful takes a much different approach vs. just deer hunting, IMO anyway.
This is true for 2 reasons... #1, because mature bucks DO behave differently than younger deer; and #2-most hunters in TN don't even have the opportunity to kill a mature deer each year because they only occur on smaller properties once or twice a decade.
I remember reading a post by BSK describing how there are actually several good mature bucks on most properties
I seriously doubt BSK said there were 'several good mature bucks on most properties'. Even his intensly managed property of 500 acres with a billion trail cams (  ) still only captures 2 or 3 mature bucks annually. The average joe is hunting on 150 acres or less that is not managed. It would be INSANE for the average joe to have a goal of hunting only mature bucks (unless he's willing to kill one only once a decade or so.
Mature bucks are certainly special, not only because they are hard to hunt, but also because they are rare as hen's teeth.
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#2145647 - 11/03/10 03:54 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Huntnbubba
Spike
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Franklin, TN
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I have no idea what the avg. number would be but I do know that just because you don't get a picture of him doesn't mean he's not there. Every year a mature deer gets killed on our farm or an adjoining farm that no body had a picture of. We have a hunting co-op of sorts and share trail cam pics with each other. All total our group controls about 1000 acres and we've come to realise two big facts. First, when we all work together and share info, more bucks started making it to older age groups because we dropped the attitude of "well if I don't kill it my neighbor will". Second, no mater how many cameras we had out, we always got a suprise buck killed by one of us!
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#2146075 - 11/03/10 08:22 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: Reemus Buckshot]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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My question is...are these bucks so rarely seen because they are nearly 100% nocturnal (excluding the rut) or because they are just extremely smart for a deer and know how to travel without being detected?
The answer is "both," but primarily the nocturnal part. Hard to kill a deer that never moves in daylight. And the older a buck is, the higher the percent of the pictures I get of him that are at night. Generally, by the time a buck reaches 5 1/2, every picture I get of him will be at night. On average in Unit L where deer populations are doing well...how many 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 bucks will be on say 1000acres? I know some of their square mile home ranges will over lap, but I am interested to know how many different mature bucks actually live in the area even though you could never see them.
In an area with a good buck age structure, 8-12% of antlered bucks will be mature. So basically, about 1 in 10 bucks are mature in an area with a good buck age structure. The density of mature bucks would depend on the over-all buck density.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2146078 - 11/03/10 08:23 PM
Re: Mature Buck Density
[Re: UTGrad]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Are large bucks nocturnal even during the rut?
Yes.
Is there any chasing at night?
The vast majority of breeding activity occurs at night.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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