#2116744 - 10/18/10 06:10 AM
Shooting does with spotted fawns
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ghosthunter
10 Point
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I've never shot a doe when she had a spotted fawn with her. Just the thought of that little guy/gal sitting there while I'm gutting their momma doesn't suit me, but if I'm ever gonna kill a doe with my bow I may have to start shooting does with spotted fawns because they all seem to have them. Do you guys shoot does with spotted fawns? Does the fawn run off?
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#2116749 - 10/18/10 06:13 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: ghosthunter]
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hunter drew
14 Point
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Loc: henderson county TN Lexington
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Not my thing. To each their own
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#2116759 - 10/18/10 06:21 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: hunter drew]
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Jon
TnDeer Old Timer
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I dont.... I let them walk.
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#2116864 - 10/18/10 07:31 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Jon]
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BSK
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We rarely have spotted fawns by October in my area.
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#2116871 - 10/18/10 07:35 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: BSK]
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jethro69
4 Point
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The little ones are soooooo tender
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#2116879 - 10/18/10 07:37 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: jethro69]
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Football Hunter
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Registered: 10/22/07
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havent seen spots for a while
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#2116912 - 10/18/10 07:52 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Football Hunter]
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Stovepipe
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run Bambi, run ! ! !
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#2116927 - 10/18/10 07:59 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Stovepipe]
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medic
8 Point
Registered: 09/11/00
Posts: 1956
Loc: Cleveland, TN USA
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I gave a big doe a pass Saturday evening because she had two fawns with spots with her. She must have dropped them late they were covered up in bright white spots. Never seen one with spots this late.
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#2116934 - 10/18/10 08:00 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: medic]
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JohnnyBond
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In before Ruger 
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#2116947 - 10/18/10 08:11 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: JohnnyBond]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
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Loc: Mississippi
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If you don't mind the thought of the orphaned spotted fawns starving to death, then go ahead.
Fawn drop here in south MS is so late that the season is actually closed until mid Oct, although bow season opens OCT 1.
Once they are old enough to have lost their spots, they will probably be just fine as orphans, especially if the doe family groups have already bunched back up.
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#2116988 - 10/18/10 08:34 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Winchester
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Our fawns this year are probably 50 lbs now and have long lost their spots. The deer here seem to be super healthy with the abundance of acorns this year. Our White oaks are raining acorns right now, and up until now they have had an abundance of Red and Chestnut oak acorns to gorge on. To answer the question, I gage it on how big/healthy the fawns look, and what area im in.
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#2116990 - 10/18/10 08:36 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Wes
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Never! Let them have their momma
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#2117000 - 10/18/10 08:39 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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A.Hall
Formerly "Spoon"
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I will. Lot of times the fawns will come back looking for the doe...then shoot the fawn.
The fawn will be fine. Either will survive on its on or it will take up will another doe
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#2117043 - 10/18/10 08:58 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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Goshen Valley Boy
4 Point
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Loc: Indiana
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Those spots make excellent targets!
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#2117089 - 10/18/10 09:15 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Goshen Valley Boy]
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bowhunterfanatic
6 Point
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Loc: McNairy County
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Shoot her. I try not to, but have in the past. The fawns always lived. I've seen quite a few fawns by themselves already this year, and they look very healthy.
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#2117138 - 10/18/10 09:36 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: bowhunterfanatic]
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762hunter
8 Point
Registered: 07/16/04
Posts: 1983
Loc: Memphis
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the does where i hunt know that they get a pass if they have a spotted one with them.
seen 1 doe 3 times now and has 3 fawns with her.
Seen another doe and she she has 2 with her.
they should be about out of spots now so maybe they will show up again.
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#2117204 - 10/18/10 10:12 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: 762hunter]
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WRbowhunter
8 Point
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1464
Loc: collierville,tn
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I let them walk. It just feels like the right thing. But would you shoot a doe that does not have a fawn in toe? What's not to saw the fawn is beded down somewhere close? I have seen some very healthy looking small does this year that have long lost their spots and have seen some that look like they were born within the last 30 to 45 days. very very small with spots.
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#2117293 - 10/18/10 11:06 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: WRbowhunter]
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JAD
4 Point
Registered: 07/04/02
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Loc: Murfreesboro,Tennessee
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Never again. The more I watch does and their fawns together, the more sure I am not to take momma out. That's just me though. I don't criticize others for what they do as long as it's legal.
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#2117325 - 10/18/10 11:18 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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arctic_cat
8 Point
Registered: 11/18/08
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Loc: Lenoir City,Tn
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I wont shoot even if the doe has a little one without spots. If there is a little one following her around I just let them go. We argue about this at work all the time. Just my thing,everyone does it diffrent I guess
Edited by arctic_cat (10/18/10 11:20 AM)
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#2117347 - 10/18/10 11:29 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: arctic_cat]
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wlf89
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 1965
Loc: Lawrence County
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i dont but thats just me
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#2117723 - 10/18/10 04:13 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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bowtch huntr209
8 Point
Registered: 09/28/10
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No...flat out wrong. Saw a guy on the KY hunt forum who posted a pic of his "first bow kill". It was a freakin fawn covered in spots. Made me sick to my stomach. How can you shoot something that has barely been walking around on this earth for 6 months. He seemed proud, shoud have been embarrassed.
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#2117750 - 10/18/10 04:21 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: bowtch huntr209]
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WHITMAN
4 Point
Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Jackson Tn
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i wont shoot mama if she's got her fawns at side, never done it and dont plan to
No...flat out wrong. Saw a guy on the KY hunt forum who posted a pic of his "first bow kill". It was a freakin fawn covered in spots. Made me sick to my stomach. How can you shoot something that has barely been walking around on this earth for 6 months. He seemed proud, shoud have been embarrassed.
some folk are like that, they will shoot anything that walks by, no matter what
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#2117845 - 10/18/10 05:17 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: WHITMAN]
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knightrider
10 Point
Registered: 09/27/10
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Loc: claiborne
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whats wrong with shooting the surplus animals of the herd[fawns]and leaving momma to breed and have more tender yearlings to eat
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#2117851 - 10/18/10 05:19 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: bowtch huntr209]
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knightrider
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No...flat out wrong. Saw a guy on the KY hunt forum who posted a pic of his "first bow kill". It was a freakin fawn covered in spots. Made me sick to my stomach. How can you shoot something that has barely been walking around on this earth for 6 months. He seemed proud, shoud have been embarrassed.
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#2117935 - 10/18/10 05:57 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: knightrider]
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Dawson
4 Point
Registered: 06/07/10
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This thread has made me very proud. Where is PETA when you need them to see something? I think any guy that lets them walk is a good one. knightrider, everytime I see you post, you are playing devil's advocate.
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#2117941 - 10/18/10 06:01 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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LA man
16 Point
Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 18544
Loc: spencer, tn/houma, la.
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does with spotted fawns get a free pass from me, however as soon as them spots are gone them does are fair game to me
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#2117942 - 10/18/10 06:01 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Bone Collector
12 Point
Registered: 09/09/09
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I don't shoot the ones with spotted fawns, but if there is a small doe with a big doe and it is NOT spotted, even if the argument can be made that it may be her fawn, I figure it has weaned off and I will take a shot at momma 
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#2117957 - 10/18/10 06:10 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Bone Collector]
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ghosthunter
10 Point
Registered: 11/30/04
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I don't shoot the ones with spotted fawns, but if there is a small doe with a big doe and it is NOT spotted, even if the argument can be made that it may be her fawn, I figure it has weaned off and I will take a shot at momma
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#2118061 - 10/18/10 06:50 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Dawson]
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knightrider
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This thread has made me very proud. Where is PETA when you need them to see something? I think any guy that lets them walk is a good one. knightrider, everytime I see you post, you are playing devil's advocate.
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#2118122 - 10/18/10 07:20 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: knightrider]
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adamf5353
4 Point
Registered: 08/07/09
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You guys are wearing your panties too tight.
Hunting means something different to everyone.
I don't shoot fawns because it doesn't seem like fair sport.
However!!!.. If I was hungry, don't think for a second I wouldn't down any meat that came in range!
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#2118271 - 10/18/10 08:24 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: knightrider]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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whats wrong with shooting the surplus animals of the herd[fawns]and leaving momma to breed and have more tender yearlings to eat
I'd much rather shoot a spotted fawn than shoot it's mother leaving the orphaned spotted fawn to starve to death. Fortunately in TN, most of the fawns are old enough to survive without their mother by the time bow season opens.
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#2118281 - 10/18/10 08:28 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: adamf5353]
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bowtch huntr209
8 Point
Registered: 09/28/10
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Loc: West Tennessee, US
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I figure I'd catch some grief as soon as I reread the original post. Somehow I inerpreted it into shooting fawns. Shooting the mommas with fawns is your business. I personally dont do it.
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#2118364 - 10/18/10 08:58 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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knightrider
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Loc: claiborne
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whats wrong with shooting the surplus animals of the herd[fawns]and leaving momma to breed and have more tender yearlings to eat I'd much rather shoot a spotted fawn than shoot it's mother leaving the orphaned spotted fawn to starve to death. Fortunately in TN, most of the fawns are old enough to survive without their mother by the time bow season opens.
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behold the lamb of GOD,when he nocks please answer it may be your last chance!!!!
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#2118394 - 10/18/10 09:13 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Headhunter
10 Point
Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 3355
Loc: LaVergne, TN USA
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shoot the momma doe, the little ones will be fine.
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#2118672 - 10/18/10 11:46 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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I once had an ole hunter tell me to shoot the yearling (without spots) with the doe because you would need the mature doe later in the season to bring in the bucks.... Makes good sense...
He also told me the yearling would be better eating....
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#2118877 - 10/19/10 07:18 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: WHITMAN]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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i wont shoot mama if she's got her fawns at side, never done it and dont plan to
How would you hunt a healthy deer herd, where every doe has a fawn at heel?
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#2118954 - 10/19/10 07:55 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: BSK]
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Goshen Valley Boy
4 Point
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Some hunters have softer hearts when it comes to shooting young deer. I usually don't do it for the same reason...an old softy at heart. But I have done it and I don't think there is anything "wrong" with it.
I killed a doe last year in Tennessee that was very young because it was my first opportunity to shoot a deer off my Grandpa's farm and I had to leave that day. I didn't see them when I shot but when I recovered her, I noticed some very faint spots still just barely visable. I didn't feel bad, other than the bit of razzing I took from my buddy. I was happy that I had taken a legal deer with my bow from my Grandpa's farm. And the meat was great (not much of it, but great )
Actually, if you want to grow your herd a bit, shooting the young doe and letting mamma walk might pay dividends. Often, the first year a doe is bred she will only produce one fawn, or will only produce enough milk to support one fawn. Older does are much more likely to produce two (and sometimes 3) healthy fawns. So letting older does walk and shooting young ones might increase your deer population down the line...if that is what you need to happen.
Edited by Goshen Valley Boy (10/19/10 07:56 AM)
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#2119036 - 10/19/10 10:06 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Goshen Valley Boy]
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Greg M
6 Point
Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 753
Loc: Riverview, FL/ Bluff City, TN
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Don't think I could shoot one still with spots, but I am curious about whether or not they would take up with other does. I read an article about shooting does with fawns. It was primarily sbout the social nature of does. It stated that does teach their fawns survival and their social nature in their first year. It went on to say that orphaned fawns had a very high mortality rate, although I don't remember the exact percentage. I want to say 60ish percent, but I may be off. Further, it stated that does who were orphaned tended not to care for their fawns very well in subsequent years leading to a high fawn mortality rate down the road. Kind of a ghetto/ Springer mentality I guess...lol. It sounded like it easily could make sense. Any insights to this concept from those more knowledgeable?
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#2119261 - 10/19/10 12:06 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Greg M]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Don't think I could shoot one still with spots, but I am curious about whether or not they would take up with other does. I read an article about shooting does with fawns. It was primarily sbout the social nature of does. It stated that does teach their fawns survival and their social nature in their first year. It went on to say that orphaned fawns had a very high mortality rate...
Any idea who wrote that article? Every study I've seen found VERY high survival rates for orphaned fawns, as long as the fawns were weaned (6 weeks). In fact, orphaned button buck fawns have a HIGHER survival rate than unorphaned button bucks because they will not be forced out of their birth range hence will stay in an area they know well.
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#2119329 - 10/19/10 12:36 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: BSK]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16954
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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In fact, orphaned button buck fawns have a HIGHER survival rate than unorphaned button bucks because they will not be forced out of their birth range hence will stay in an area they know well.
In fact, this is a very big deal, and may be the main reason it often seems "the more does you kill, the more bucks you have".
When adult female deer outnumber adult male deer, taking more females not only immediately helps balance the buck:doe ratio, but this preventing of buck dispersal is like getting two birds with one stone, i.e. you keep a buck by killing a doe.
And sometimes you can benefit greatly by your neighbors failing to take enough female deer. Say you take a lot of female deer, but your neighbors take none. You keep more of the bucks born on your property, while most of theirs dispurse (some of which establish their new home range on your property). Average dispersal rate of young bucks is well over a mile from point of birth, and can be several miles.
Personally, I won't take a doe with spotted fawns visible or in tow, yet I take several does annually, and most do have fawns (just not spotted ones when I take them). Like BSK said, in a healthy herd, nearly all adult female deer SHOULD have fawns in tow/nearby, whether you happen to see them or not is a different issue. IMO, MOST female deer taken do in fact have fawns nearby. Hunters typical just don't see them or don't realize they're fawns rather than adult deer.
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#2119384 - 10/19/10 01:08 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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They are not going to starve ,Where is BSK when you need him?
We're talking about SPOTTED fawns... but I suspect you are right that many don't starve, especially considering that a significant number are eaten by predators before they have time to starve.
Very young deer, like almost all other very young mammals, simply lack the ability to digest the same diet as adults. In other words, you could force feed a spotted fawn browse in captivity until it's stomach was full, and yet it would still starve to death.
So the real question is, would another wet doe with fawns 'adopt' and nurse the orphaned fawn? I suspect that does happen rarely, but would most likely be the exception to the rule, especially when considering the does haven't yet bunched back up into family groups when the fawns are that young.
Weaned fawns are a completely different matter altogether... but not applicable to this topic
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#2119385 - 10/19/10 01:08 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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oldmanelrod
6 Point
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 533
Loc: TN/AL state line
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I have had several does that I have cleaned that still had milk in their udders....I wonder how many of them had spotted fawns. If there is not a fawn around I will shoot. If there is and it has spots I won't.
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#2119390 - 10/19/10 01:10 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: oldmanelrod]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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I have had several does that I have cleaned that still had milk in their udders....I wonder how many of them had spotted fawns. If there is not a fawn around I will shoot. If there is and it has spots I won't.
Fawns will continue to nurse as long as the doe allows, even when they don't need the milk to survive. The mother is the one who initiates weaning, not the fawn.
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#2119483 - 10/19/10 02:12 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: knightrider]
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W.Seay
12 Point
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 7144
Loc: Collierville,TN.
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No way! But our fawns rarely have spots during season.
_________________________
To one with faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.
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#2119517 - 10/19/10 02:45 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: W.Seay]
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StalkingWolf
8 Point
Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1231
Loc: Dyersburg, TN, USA
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I shoot any mature doe that gets in range during bow season. Always have, always will. 
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#2119603 - 10/19/10 03:24 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: StalkingWolf]
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Greg M
6 Point
Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 753
Loc: Riverview, FL/ Bluff City, TN
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Once again, too much clutter in my pea brain. The article was about deer density. Here it is anyway:
http://www.qdma.com/what-we-do/articles/herd-management/social-stress/
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MOA Custom Firearms, LLC
Riverview, FL
Firearms perfection improved
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#2120193 - 10/19/10 09:32 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: oldmanelrod]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13533
Loc: Food Plot
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i shot a doe last year in december that was absolutely full of milk.......
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#2120745 - 10/20/10 10:17 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: ghosthunter]
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Snake
16 Point
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 15478
Loc: McMinn Co.Tennessee U.S.
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No !
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No matter the storm , when you are with God , there's always a rainbow waiting .
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#2120766 - 10/20/10 10:27 AM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Boone 58]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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i shot a doe last year in december that was absolutely full of milk.......
That would be normal. All does that produced surviving fawns should still have observable milk into December.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2121047 - 10/20/10 01:18 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: BSK]
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Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7183
Loc: Atoka, TN
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i shot a doe last year in december that was absolutely full of milk....... That would be normal. All does that produced surviving fawns should still have observable milk into December.
Bryan,
Is there any sound biological way to determine that a doe had a fawn but lost it early on? How long will she store milk if she lost the fawn early on? I noticed you said "surviving" in your reply, thus the reason for my question.
Edited by Andy S. (10/20/10 01:19 PM)
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Andy S.
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#2121136 - 10/20/10 02:29 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: Andy S.]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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i shot a doe last year in december that was absolutely full of milk....... That would be normal. All does that produced surviving fawns should still have observable milk into December. Bryan, Is there any sound biological way to determine that a doe had a fawn but lost it early on? How long will she store milk if she lost the fawn early on? I noticed you said "surviving" in your reply, thus the reason for my question.
That's a darn good question and one I've been trying to get an answer to as as well. If a doe loses her fawn within weeks after birth (most fawn mortality is within the first two weeks of life), will she still be lactating in fall? Surprisingly, no one I've asked seems to know the answer to that, even though it is a simple question.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2121193 - 10/20/10 03:00 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: BSK]
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iowavf
10 Point
Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 2520
Loc: southwest iowa
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Nope, I don't need to shoot a deer that bad and neither do I shoot small young deer for the same reason.
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#2121430 - 10/20/10 06:18 PM
Re: Shooting does with spotted fawns
[Re: iowavf]
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Big J
16 Point
Registered: 03/10/06
Posts: 11513
Loc: Joelton
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Done it. Won't ever again
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