#2114574 - 10/16/10 03:35 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: Kimberman]
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Zollicoffer
Spike
Registered: 09/16/10
Posts: 30
Loc: Hunting Middle and West Tennes...
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By some people's logic we are all unethical for carrying anything less than the biggest gun we can get. Should I buy a .50bmg for deer? It's bigger. They'll drop in their tracks. I think the most important aspect is being confident in the firearm and the shooter's abilities. That said, I'd highly recommend a .243 (mine is my WTN beanfield gun), or my first hunting rifle for juvenile seasons...an old 30.30. The 30.30 will kill deer all day and make em wait for a good range. There's my .02.
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Winchester Fanatic.
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#2117237 - 10/18/10 10:31 AM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: Zollicoffer]
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jaybird62
4 Point
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 417
Loc: Brentwood, TN
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The 5.56mm military round was designed to allow our infantry to double their ammo carrying capacity so they could increase their rate of fire, and thereby increase their WOUNDING casualty capability. The body mass of a whitetail is very similar to that of the intended target of the 5.56mm (.223 Remington commercial) round. Loaded with limited-expansion bullets of heavy construction, the .223, or .243 for that matter, are great culling rounds. The most recent military ammunition trials to answer the valid concerns about combatants getting up, running off, returning fire after being wounded, etc., after being shot by a 5.56mm, found the following: The .264 (6.5mm) caliber bullets were the most accurate and the .284 (7mm) bullets were the most lethal. I'm still scratching my head over their final recommendation of a .277 round (6.8mm SPC) loaded with 115-grain bullets, but that's a whole different discussion.
To borrow from author Robert Ruark, "Use enough Gun...." In reference to the original subject of this thread, I wouldn't risk the potential pshchological trauma that you would subject you daughter to if she wounded a deer and lost it with a .223. I've got even less personal use for a .243. I have close friends, who are firearms experts and excellent marksmen with decades of deer hunting experience, watch the buck(s) of their dreams get up and trot off after being shot with a .243. Your choice of a Model 7 Remington is excellent, but I would switch to a .260 Remington, 7mm08, or .308 cartridge.
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#2118152 - 10/18/10 07:37 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: BSK]
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Aussie Sniper
4 Point
Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 248
Loc: Middle Tn
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The 223 is NOT an adequate deer cartridge, and although others will give me grief for saying it, neither is the 243.
Why would TWRA legalize it then? I've killed several deer with a .243 that would disagee with you. I've shot 'em out to 350yds and they were DRT! A .243 may not be ideal in certain situations, but adequate...HE&% yeah it's adequate!
As for the OP...congrats on getting your little one out to enjoy the sport. Nothing like it. When she smokes 'ol mossey back grey horn post some pics so the haters can see what the 'ol .223 will do.
Not adequate...are you kidding me?
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"To be conscious that you are ignorant of the facts is a great step to knowledge." - Benjamin Disraeli
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#2119030 - 10/19/10 10:03 AM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: Aussie Sniper]
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REN
Good ol' Boys "Team Grizzly"
10 Point
Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 3811
Loc: Wilson County, TN
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I just find it comical how many people these days are down on a 243 yet most who use them have many stories of stopping the deer in its tracks and very few with tails of lost deer. I have know more people who lost a deer with a 30-06 and 270 then i have with a 243. As i stated IMO a 243 for SE deer is a killing machine. the proof is in the pudding as some might say.
a rifle is only as good as the shooter holding it, i dont care if you are shooting a mortar round, if you dont know how to shoot or place your shot then you are not going to be successful. I have hunted with a 243 for most of my life and would not trade that round for anything. I grew up in Bama on a big family farm we managed by state requirements. We had to kill approx 60 does a year and me being the youngest of 3 i ended up having to do most of that. For 10 years I had to kill approx 30 does a year and everyone of them were killed with a 243 and NOT ONE ever took more then 1 step and that includes the 100-157 class bucks taken during that same time period.
it all comes down to preference so to each his own.
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#2119063 - 10/19/10 10:21 AM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: REN]
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muddyboots
12 Point
Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 5920
Loc: savannah, tn., usa
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I cant believe ia ma saying this but i am gonna have to agree with BSK on this one.
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Let em go and let em grow!
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#2119437 - 10/19/10 01:46 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: muddyboots]
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TN deer hunter
4 Point
Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 459
Loc: TN
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Check out this thread and especially post made by scenarshooter, he has killed some impressive animals including a Bison with his .220 Swift using the 55gr Hornady Spire Point mostly.
I agree with his quote ".22 centerfires arent for everyone but in the proper hands they will work fine. The bottom line IMO is make good shots and know your personal limitaions."
.22 Centerfire Kills
Edited by TN deer hunter (10/19/10 01:50 PM)
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The scientific name for an animal that doesn't either run from or fight its enemies is lunch.
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#2119474 - 10/19/10 02:05 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: TN deer hunter]
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Kimberman
10 Point
Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 3135
Loc: Knoxville
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Steelhead on 24hourcampfire is a big fan of a 223 AI and Barnes TSXs. He has some pretty impressive photos of the game he has taken with it, up to and including big black bear.
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We cant count on our laws to stop irrational people, so why should we be punished for their irrational behavior.
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#2119488 - 10/19/10 02:19 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: Kimberman]
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TN deer hunter
4 Point
Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 459
Loc: TN
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I am in the process of finding a load that my .223 Remington LTR likes using the 53gr TSX to use this year. In the spring I plan on sending it off to be punched to a .223AI. Steelhead sent me the info on where to have mine punched so I know that it will be done right. Steve Timm also sent me his info on the round as well. I have the fever for a .223AI really bad!
Edited by TN deer hunter (10/19/10 02:20 PM)
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The scientific name for an animal that doesn't either run from or fight its enemies is lunch.
- Michael Friedman
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#2119511 - 10/19/10 02:32 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: Kimberman]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25247
Loc: TN
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I've got even less personal use for a .243. I have close friends, who are firearms experts and excellent marksmen with decades of deer hunting experience, watch the buck(s) of their dreams get up and trot off after being shot with a .243
Shot placement is key regardless of caliber, and that being said, I can personally guarantee you that a .243 is absolutely sufficient to quickly kill whitetail deer! I will agree that there are better choices, especially for those who have no problem with recoil or a heavy gun, but the .243 is a super accurate and adequate round for deer size game. A good bullet, of the largest 100 grn size is my choice, and my 9 and 12 yr old boys can attest, as they have killed numerous deer with theirs, no problems at all!
A .243 is not for those who shoot for the middle and expect the deer to fall in its tracks, but for anyone serious enough to take and make good ethical shots, it will do just fine! A bad shot from a 338 mag will result in a lost deer, just like the same from a .243.
As for the .223 ? I cant comment as I have very little experience with this caliber.
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#2121437 - 10/20/10 06:24 PM
Re: 223 worries
[Re: jaybird62]
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Yodel Dog
8 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1087
Loc: Mid Tn
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The 5.56mm military round was designed to allow our infantry to double their ammo carrying capacity so they could increase their rate of fire, and thereby increase their WOUNDING casualty capability. The body mass of a whitetail is very similar to that of the intended target of the 5.56mm (.223 Remington commercial) round. Loaded with limited-expansion bullets of heavy construction, the .223, or .243 for that matter, are great culling rounds. The most recent military ammunition trials to answer the valid concerns about combatants getting up, running off, returning fire after being wounded, etc., after being shot by a 5.56mm, found the following: The .264 (6.5mm) caliber bullets were the most accurate and the .284 (7mm) bullets were the most lethal. I'm still scratching my head over their final recommendation of a .277 round (6.8mm SPC) loaded with 115-grain bullets, but that's a whole different discussion.
Comparing the 223's wounding capability of humans and it's effectiveness to deliver a fatal wound to deer is comparing apples to oranges. A FMJ is not a hunting bullet. Until NATO allows the use of bonded core bullets, you have no comparison.
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"...Shooting a deer is like shooting a cow..." Phil Robertson
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