#2045627 - 08/25/10 05:57 PM
Have you guys ever seen...
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Tomahawk
6 Point
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn
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a mature spike deer? I got a trail pic last year that was not the greatest in quality but it had looked as though this buck had the right features for at least a 3.5 yo but all he had on top was long main beams without any tines or brow tines apparent in the picture. The beams looked smooth but there was so much brush in the background I assumed they were just lost in the poor quality. 2 weeks or so later he actually passed by on the other side of a draw 60-80 yds away. Since I could never get an arrow thru the limbs and honestly thats just way too far for me, I glassed him fairly well and am about 99% sure his beams where smooth as a babies butt. So I don't believe a fight knocked off all his tines. Nice spread on beams (16-17 inch) and reach out toward his nose. Payed less attention to body when I seen him because it was short in time and I really wanted to observe his rack. Tried to bring him back with wheeze but was busted by smaller buck behind me I didn't know was there. I will look for the picture on other computer at home when I get back there. I have a number of irregular racked bucks in this particular area, usually one side is much larger than the other. Could this tineless buck be the reason? Input welcome. Here is an example of the rack size difference on each side. This buck is not as bad as some of the others but you can still see the traits. [img] [/img]
Edited by Tomahawk (08/25/10 05:58 PM)
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#2045649 - 08/25/10 06:19 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: Tomahawk]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I've seen a spike mature buck, the he was very much on the downhill side. Best we could estmate he was 11 or 12 years old. His spikes were huge (about 15" long) and very thick.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2045650 - 08/25/10 06:21 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: BSK]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Major differences in antler configuration from one side to the other--especial bucks that have just a spike on one side but a "normal" antler on the other--are almost always due to either body injuries or more often damage to the antler pedicle itself.
Antler malformations due to body injury sometimes fade with age. But malformations caused by pedicle injuries are usually permanent.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2045651 - 08/25/10 06:21 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: Tomahawk]
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Tomahawk
6 Point
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn
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Here is the picture. I found it on my phone. I would say this deer is 2.5-3.5. Doubt I see him again but you never know. Hope you can see it ok. I named him the "Bull Buck". [img] [/img]
Edited by Tomahawk (08/25/10 06:53 PM)
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#2045653 - 08/25/10 06:28 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: BSK]
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Tomahawk
6 Point
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn
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Major differences in antler configuration from one side to the other--especial bucks that have just a spike on one side but a "normal" antler on the other--are almost always due to either body injuries or more often damage to the antler pedicle itself.
Antler malformations due to body injury sometimes fade with age. But malformations caused by pedicle injuries are usually permanent. Yes I agree. Most of "these" bucks develop tines on both sides but always lopsided. I try to notice for limps or other physical conditions but for the most part they seem healthy. Just seems to be some bad genetics going on around this particular area.
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#2045665 - 08/25/10 06:38 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: Tomahawk]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Major differences in antler configuration from one side to the other--especial bucks that have just a spike on one side but a "normal" antler on the other--are almost always due to either body injuries or more often damage to the antler pedicle itself.
Antler malformations due to body injury sometimes fade with age. But malformations caused by pedicle injuries are usually permanent. Yes I agree. Most of "these" bucks develop tines on both sides but always lopsided. I try to notice for limps or other physical conditions but for the most part they seem healthy. Just seems to be some bad genetics going on around this particular area.
Whitetailed deer mix their genetics so rapidly that I doubt it is "bad genetics." Now that doesn't mean particular rack shapes aren't more prevalent in one area than another--they certainly are--but that is primarily due to the social dynamics of matriarchical doe groups (since females appear to pass on the majority of expressed antler traits).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2045676 - 08/25/10 06:48 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: BSK]
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Tomahawk
6 Point
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn
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Major differences in antler configuration from one side to the other--especial bucks that have just a spike on one side but a "normal" antler on the other--are almost always due to either body injuries or more often damage to the antler pedicle itself.
Antler malformations due to body injury sometimes fade with age. But malformations caused by pedicle injuries are usually permanent. Yes I agree. Most of "these" bucks develop tines on both sides but always lopsided. I try to notice for limps or other physical conditions but for the most part they seem healthy. Just seems to be some bad genetics going on around this particular area. Whitetailed deer mix their genetics so rapidly that I doubt it is "bad genetics." Now that doesn't mean particular rack shapes aren't more prevalent in one area than another--they certainly are--but that is primarily due to the social dynamics of matriarchical doe groups (since females appear to pass on the majority of expressed antler traits). This would make a lot of sense since most of these bucks are never around until seek phase rolls around. But it just seems to be a trend that a majority of them have this lop side effect. This has been noticed over the past 5-6 years to be more prevalent, at least from my sightings/camera pics. I just wasn't sure if the genes could be the primary factor. Thanks for insight.
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#2045729 - 08/25/10 07:22 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: Tomahawk]
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Diehard Hunter
12 Point
Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 5240
Loc: East Tennessee
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I killed a 4.5 year old 4 point a few years ago that had 18" main beams and brow tines.
_________________________
One of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. Aldo Leopold
Don't argue with an idiot He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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#2045753 - 08/25/10 07:39 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: Diehard Hunter]
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Tomahawk
6 Point
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn
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I killed a 4.5 year old 4 point a few years ago that had 18" main beams and brow tines. Near south Knoxville by chance? That is where these deer are located. Noticed your east TN location so you never know.
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#2045854 - 08/25/10 08:28 PM
Re: Have you guys ever seen...
[Re: Tomahawk]
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nabowhunter
8 Point
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 2116
Loc: Morristown, TN
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Several years ago I killed an 8 point running with a spike. I didn't even pay attention to the spike at first, but after shooting the 8 point I started watching the spike.
Looking back on it I would say he was a 3.5 year old or older buck. He had spikes that were probably 15" long on each side. Never seen him again after that day.
_________________________
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go." -Oscar Wilde
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