#2031383 - 08/15/10 03:40 PM
What is the %
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Good time Charlie
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12 Point
Registered: 10/08/99
Posts: 6537
Loc: Tazewell
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What would be a good pecentage of
does that are not bred in a single season.
I suspect it will be very high from what I have seen.
And what would cause a doe to not be bred?
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#2031427 - 08/15/10 04:23 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Knothead
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 6491
Loc: Middle TN
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............And what would cause a doe to not be bred? A headache.   You must been married for a long time....LOL
Yup. 27 years.
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Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)“The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.”
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#2031428 - 08/15/10 04:24 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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BSK
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What would be a good pecentage of
does that are not bred in a single season.
I suspect it will be very high from what I have seen.
And what would cause a doe to not be bred?
Not get bred? Very, very few. Not get pregnant? Maybe 5-10%.
The major lose of fawns occurs right after birth--within the first two weeks of life--when at least 50% die.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2031430 - 08/15/10 04:27 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: BSK]
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Double-D-Team
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You learn something new everyday...Thanks BSK... I'm really surprised at those stats.
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THE RICHEST VALUES OF WILDERNESS LIE NOT IN THE DAYS OF DANIEL BOONE NOR EVEN IN THE PRESENT. BUT IN THE FUTURE--LEOPOLD
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#2031460 - 08/15/10 04:58 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: Double-D-Team]
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bowriter
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I think BSK may be a tad low. I assume he is counting only older does. When you figure in the older doe fawns that do not get bred, I believe the figure may be higher. However, as he said. bred doesn't mean pregnant or that they deliver fawns.
And I could be wrong. I can tell you close to 85% of the does behind my house had fawns.
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#2031472 - 08/15/10 05:07 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: bowriter]
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BSK
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Yes, I was only talking about adult does. Fawn sexual maturity varies by area.
But when conducting spring fetal counts, considering all adult does checked (does that were 1 1/2 years old during the rut) AVERAGE fetal counts often run 1.6 to 1.7 per doe, even including does that have zero fetuses (were not bred or did not conceive).
That means that if all the fetuses go full term, birth recruitment numbers should be 160-170% for does that are now 2 years old (in spring). The reason actual fall-season fawn recruitment rates may only be 50-100% (or potentially even lower) is a combination of female fawns not bred being recruited into the adult population and fawn mortality between birth in early summer and fall observation. Fawn mortality can occur from any number of causes, with predation and malnutrition being the leading ones. But fawn mortality is MUCH higher than most hunters realize.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2031476 - 08/15/10 05:10 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: BSK]
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bowriter
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10-4 That's what I figured. If I can find it, I'm going to post a picture of a buck fawn for you to age.
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#2031479 - 08/15/10 05:12 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: BSK]
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Good time Charlie
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 10/08/99
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Loc: Tazewell
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Wow I would not have guessed that,thanks
I have been watching a doe with 2 and another with1
was wondering why all the other does had no fawns
I bet the farmers get a lot of them with machinery
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#2031496 - 08/15/10 05:22 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: bowriter]
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Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
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Registered: 03/26/99
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Considering that after the first does come into heat and that they recycle every 28 days all the way through Feb. and sometimes even a couple months after that it's hard to imagine many of them not being bred.
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#2031552 - 08/15/10 06:12 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: Mike Belt]
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Good time Charlie
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 10/08/99
Posts: 6537
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Well I read on here ,I think by BSK that one buck will
successfully breed 1 doe a season if that .
It makes you wonder things do not add up.
I know we have much more doe than bucks
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#2031556 - 08/15/10 06:17 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: Knothead]
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gator-n-buck
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Registered: 10/22/08
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Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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............And what would cause a doe to not be bred? A headache. You must been married for a long time....LOL Yup. 27 years.
I'm just 5 yrs. behind you.... LOL
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#2031811 - 08/15/10 08:49 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Well I read on here ,I think by BSK that one buck will
successfully breed 1 doe a season if that .
It makes you wonder things do not add up.
I know we have much more doe than bucks
Some does get bred by many bucks, with her twins having different fathers.
But what the study you mention found was that when it comes to successful breedings--produce a living fawn--few bucks sire more than one living fawn in a given year (a very few may sire several)--and quite a few bucks do not sire a living fawn in a given year.
But again, there is a big difference between breedings, births and living fawns in late summer into fall. Far fewer fawns exist by this time than fawns born, and the research on buck parentage was conducted on captured living fawns, so right off the bat you "missed" the data from all the fawns that were born but died soon after birth. And then they could only capture a given percentage of living fawns.
What I'm getting at is the actual number of fawns produced per buck was not the important information gathered from that study. What was important was to find that successful breeding is far more evenly spread through the male population than other ungulate species display--especially species that use "harem" social behavior, where a bull male collects a harem of females and he is the sole breeder of that entire harem. Whitetailed deer use a completely different social system to ensure the survival of the species. Whitetails have a social status system--a social pecking order--but within that most breeding is breeding of opportunity, which spreads out the breeding between far more males than other similar species.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2031825 - 08/15/10 08:57 PM
Re: What is the %
[Re: BSK]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13530
Loc: Food Plot
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I am glad you brot this up Brian....I have always been told that a doe will continue to come into heat every 28 or so days in her cycle "until" she gets bred.....just recently someone on a show on tv i believe said that actually a doe comes into heat for two cycles and then if not bred wont be bred.....This is a first i have ever heard. I have followed Leonard Lee Rue for most of my life as he has studied the whitetail deer for eons....and Alsheimer of deer and deer hunting but to my knowledge i have never heard them make that statement. I had always been told the first one i made. Do you know which is accurate and to me i dont see a deer going past two cycles before a buck would find her and breed her. I have a friend eye witness two young bucks during the first week of turkey season in tennessee a young doe being chased by them both, she in heat, they both lost their antlers and bloody spots showing where their pedicels were. they reared up on their hind legs and fought like does and some bucks on you tube when attacking hunters etc.....darndest thing i ever heard and would have loved for him to have captured that on video!!!
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