#2021567 - 08/08/10 06:45 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: Setterman]
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ghosthunter
10 Point
Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3446
Loc: chattanooga
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I guess 51 ptr did just that,just saying Yup, and he hunts the top big buck area of the state. Big difference between the Nashville Basin and places like high in the eastern mountains or in the endless ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. BSK you are partially wrong IMO about the eastern mountains. Sure the Smokies lack the quality bucks which others areas do, but keep in mind there are more mountain chains in East Tennessee then the smokies. There are plentiful deer which would be viewed as trophies in anyones book. I disagree that there is a difference in quality of deer, maybe the skill needed to harvest said deer, but there are plenty of deer here which rival anything in the country.
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it's a long way to the top if ya wanna rock 'n' roll
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#2021637 - 08/08/10 09:13 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: ghosthunter]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15480
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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I agree with most views in the thread and would like to add my thoughts...oh, and thanks for a great thread.
To start, I'd like to state that IMO one single thing must happen before a hunter (average or GREAT) can take a mature deer.......the two (hunter and deer) must be at the same place at the same time. very simple.....
Does it take a great hunter to consistantly kill mature deer? maybe, maybe not.
I would be willing to bet that most every BIG MATURE deer that is taken each year , the hunter had never seen the deer before.
With the age of trail cameras upon us, I would be willing to bet that more than half the BIG deer that get their pic taken are never seen by the camera owner under a hunting situation. And some are never photographed or seen at all and die of natural causes.
My point is that no amount of skill will put you in the right place at the right time UNLESS the deer cooperates. The window of success is alot more open during the rut, but even then, that window may only be a few days. a deer may not come by one of your stands during daylight hours even though you have done a great job in placing your stands. Simply put, you can do everything right and still not ever kill a mature BIG buck even though they are there.
Hunters are like most every man in that we like to stroke our egos. We always like to take credit for being a great hunter even though , if truth be known, most every BIG deer that we kill was simply RIGHT PLACE RIGHT TIME. We can put the odds in our favor by doing the work and hunting many hours, but no amount of skill or stand time can replace good old fashion LUCK. And no matter how you phrase it....(knowledge, skill, etc,), a hunter and his prey coming together at the same place at the same time is more about coincidence than anything else.
I have been the most consistant hunter on Chaney for the past ten years. I have won the Big Buck award five times. Am I a better hunter than most? No. Do I know the area better. No, many people have been in the club many many more years than I have and know it like the back of their hand. Do I do more work than most? Maybe.
Do I have a "better spot" than most? History has shown that most BB award winners hunted in a totally different area than where I hunt.
Then why have I won the award 50% of the years that I have been in the club and some lifelong members have never won it..? I have no answer for that other than to say that maybe I have learned how to concentrate my efforts (hours) when my odds are the highest.......a.k.a. "putting the odds more in my favor". That doesn't mean that I am a better hunter or that I know more about the area or the deer that live there, but maybe I have a better sense of when I need to be there and the patience to sit all day, every day that I am there. Again, putting the odds more in my favor.......Given that it may take a deer only a couple of minutes, if that, to walk by your stand, and many times deer may not come by there more than once a week and maybe never at the same time of day, then by not being in your stand for even a few minutes during daylight hours decreases your odds of seeing the deer. Again, hunter and deer coming to ether being alot more coincidence than skill or planning by the hunter.
BSK seems to think in terms of "quality time" versus "quantity time", or at least I get that message from reading his posts. Many times, it's not about waiting them out, but more about being there at the right time. learning when that right time is, takes something that I like to call...OLDTIMERS GUESSTIMATION". IMO, OG is based on three variables......experience, common sense and educated luck......
EXPERIENCE meaning simply seeing something enough times and realizing that I'm not so much in control of the situation as I would like to believe.
COMMON SENSE meaning simply that I realize that my odds increase when I put the most things that I can control to work for me....those being scientific knowledge of rut time and knowing as much as I can about the deer in my area.
EDUCATED LUCK/COINCIDENCE meaning simply that knowing all I can about my quarry will help increase my LUCK, but at day's end luck rules the day and coincidence can never be overlooked when talking about hunter success.....
To end I would like to say that many mature deer die every year of natural causes. Many are seldom or ever seen by man, especially after a certain age. To kill one of these deer is something like the stars lining up and no amount of skill will get it done without one simply thing happening.....we all know what that is.
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#2021656 - 08/08/10 09:43 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15480
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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I'd like to add that some of the best deer taken in my area was simply LUCK.
My brother-in-law killed a plus 150" after moving a stand three times in the same day, shot the deer running. He had never seen or killed a buck that size before or since.
Chaneylake's cousin killed a deer that scored 172" , I think. he went to a stand that he had to call CL and ask how to get there, got lost going to it and had to wait until daylight to go back in to find the stand and shot the deer on the run as well....dumb luck...
A picture that I posted in here last year was of a guy and a GREAT deer taken while sitting in a tiny shed (used for what, I don't know). The guy is in the early stages of alzheimers and his son would not let him get too far from the road or off the ground. The big buck simply walked up to him while he sat in the shed.....
A huge double drop tined buck was killed here a couple of years ago. The jury is still out on how it was actually killed and where but the story goes that two guys were rabbit hunting and jumped the deer. The next morning, the two went back with rifles and saw the deer again, in the exact same spot.....rumor has it.
NONE of the 120" bucks that I have killed have I ever seen before that day....NONE.
My point is that LUCK plays a major role in success, always has, always will.
More simply put....you increase your odds of getting run over walking down the center lane than on the shoulder....
Edited by Bottom Hunter (08/08/10 09:49 AM)
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#2021665 - 08/08/10 09:59 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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I'd like to add that some of the best deer taken in my area was simply LUCK.
My brother-in-law killed a plus 150" after moving a stand three times in the same day, shot the deer running. He had never seen or killed a buck that size before or since.
Chaneylake's cousin killed a deer that scored 172" , I think. he went to a stand that he had to call CL and ask how to get there, got lost going to it and had to wait until daylight to go back in to find the stand and shot the deer on the run as well....dumb luck...
A picture that I posted in here last year was of a guy and a GREAT deer taken while sitting in a tiny shed (used for what, I don't know). The guy is in the early stages of alzheimers and his son would not let him get too far from the road or off the ground. The big buck simply walked up to him while he sat in the shed.....
A huge double drop tined buck was killed here a couple of years ago. The jury is still out on how it was actually killed and where but the story goes that two guys were rabbit hunting and jumped the deer. The next morning, the two went back with rifles and saw the deer again, in the exact same spot.....rumor has it.
NONE of the 120" bucks that I have killed have I ever seen before that day....NONE.
My point is that LUCK plays a major role in success, always has, always will.
Too add to this list... One of the biggest bucks killed in TN.... The guy was on his cell phone........ http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?page=h_fea_TN_record_buck_Burkhead
Heres another example of a guy on a cell phone that killed a 28 pointer.... http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/nov/22/knoxville-hunter-bags-28-point-deer/
Both of these guys were on their cell phones right before killing these record bucks.. There can be luck in deer hunting.. The ole saying that I would rather be lucky then good............. I might just stay on my cell phone this yr while hunting.... 
Edited by gator-n-buck (08/08/10 10:00 AM)
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#2021702 - 08/08/10 10:25 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: Setterman]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I guess 51 ptr did just that,just saying Yup, and he hunts the top big buck area of the state. Big difference between the Nashville Basin and places like high in the eastern mountains or in the endless ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. BSK you are partially wrong IMO about the eastern mountains. Sure the Smokies lack the quality bucks which others areas do, but keep in mind there are more mountain chains in East Tennessee then the smokies. There are plentiful deer which would be viewed as trophies in anyones book. I disagree that there is a difference in quality of deer, maybe the skill needed to harvest said deer, but there are plenty of deer here which rival anything in the country.
Setterman,
You're taking too "absolutist" view of my post. I'm not saying trophy bucks don't exist in the mountains or ridge-and-hollow hardwoods. I'm just saying they don't comprise a high percent of even mature bucks.
Which would you rather hunt, and area where 30% of mature bucks grow "trophy" caliber racks or an area where only 5% grow trophy racks? That's the comparison I was trying to make.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2021707 - 08/08/10 10:32 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: BSK]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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I don't know if its this new generation of hunters or all these hunting shows that might of clouded up the waters a little... Bingo! We have a winner! TV hunting shows are the worst thing to happen to hunting in a long time. 
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The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#2021708 - 08/08/10 10:33 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: BSK]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Poser,
Your post actually supports 102's ideas. Yes, a few hunters are able to acheive these lofty goals, but it is a very, VERY few hunters. Perhaps only a couple of handfuls of hunters out of 220,000 deer hunters in the state. And no one is saying that hunters should throw away their dreams of being such a hunter. But hunters also need to be realistic. It takes extreme dedication and--let's be honest--a lot of natural skill most don't have to be that successful.
It's like saying "with enough hard work, anybody can be Jerry Rice." No they can't. Jerry Rice was Jerry Rice not only because of his work ethic, but also his God-given talent. Many, many young people have worked as hard as Jerry Rice but none acheived his status because they didn't have the God-given talent. Now eventually a very few will achieve Jerry Rice's level of success, but again, it will be a very few, and it will be more about their natural skills than just their work ethic.
Many, many hunters have tried to be one of those few handfuls of hunters that can successfully kill mature bucks on a regular basis, but few ever achieve that because they don't have the same God-given talents. It isn't all about dedication and hard work. Raw talent also plays a BIG role.
Again, we're not saying it CAN'T be done. We're saying FEW can achieve this level of success.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2021711 - 08/08/10 10:35 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: RAFI]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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a hunter who kills big deer yr after yr on public land is indeed a better hunter imo..the ones who can pull out maps and pinpoint spots ,that take the time to scout and put in there time..
Dam. we agree on something.Wanna hunt the fort with me?
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#2021730 - 08/08/10 10:51 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: 102]
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Poser
14 Point
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 8136
Loc: Tennessee
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ANd for this reason, I do almost ALL of my mature deer scouting in JANUARY of the season before (for big woods deer).
102
We definitely agree on this point.
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It doesn't have to be fun to be fun. Wild & crazy, can't be stopped. Only the strong will survive. Keep your knife sharp and your skillet greasy. http://www.GoCarnivore.com
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#2021753 - 08/08/10 11:12 AM
Re: "Trophy" Bucks and Recogniton
[Re: Football Hunter]
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102
10 Point
Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 3650
Loc: Tennessee
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Good post BH,
But to follow BSK,and to further the "cause" of DE-BRAINWASHING" those who may have fallen prey to the deer porn media, please understand the intent of my original post. I hope that Tennessee deer hunters PARTICIPATE and are satisfied with their deer hunting experience. W e MUST stay united in basic support of our hunting heritage. Disappointment leads to separation and that is the LAST thing we all want.
I know there are very capable big buck, mature, deer hunters all over our State. I am just suggesting that it is potentially harmful to anyones outlook on their own persoanl view of their season by having unrealistic expectations.
On a related note, and to further Bottom Hunters post, and mine, I will tell you that I have been fortunate in that I have had the pleasure of helping many bowhunters get started. I also tell them up front that there are FEW, if any (I've found exactly ZERO) things that can completely prepare you for how you will react when a HUGE buck shows up and begins walking to your stand. For me, and everyone I've spoken withn on this subject, our feelings are mutual. It is simply a PANIC inside your mind that MUST be controlled to execute the right shot. And it takes TIME to master. Your opportunity is very-VERY fleeting. In most cases...mere seconds. Knowing this does NOT help.
The answer, at least by bow...is to practice. On live, legal deer when possible.
102
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God, Family, Job, Bowhunting
Luck is where Opportunity and Preparation MEET!
When in doubt...back out!
SCAPAS.stay calm and pick a spot.
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