#2012811 - 07/31/10 11:04 AM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: MRUTVOL]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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We have maybe killed 3 doe in the last 10 years and the quality and numbers of the bucks has gotten better with each passing year.
Are you comparing apples to apples? Are you comparing 2 1/2s from before to 2 1/2s after; 3 1/2s from before to 3 1/2s after? Overall quality of bucks will certainly go up if the age structure is getting better and you're not considering age in the equation. But the real question is, is the quality of a single age-class getting better?
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2012817 - 07/31/10 11:16 AM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: BSK]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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And let me also say that often deer on a single property just don't respond to management in a "textbook" fashion. Sometimes you see an exaggerated response you didn't expect and sometimes you don't see anywhere near the response you expect. And I'm sure the differences are due to conditions that are unknowable, whether that is harvest practices on surrounding properties or some other unknown factor.
That's why site-specific management is something that has to be monitored and adjusted constantly. There is no "one size fits all" management scheme. Even though the biological processes are the same deer herd to deer herd, every localized situation is unique. The trick is deciphering why a local population is responding the way it is and adjusting the management program accordingly.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2012978 - 07/31/10 03:29 PM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: BSK]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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A reasonable doe harvest has certainly improved our antlers per age class. Years ago, it was very unusual to see a yearling with more than 4 pts. Now, we're getting numerous 6-8 pt yearlings.
However, it hasn't really improved the gross score of mature bucks that I can tell. But body weights per age class is by far the most dramatic change... I would estimate we're up 20% per age class. I had no idea that it was possible to kill 200lb plus deer in TN with regularity until 5 or 6 years ago.
Oh, 'reasonable' doe harvest for us has been around 2 or 3 bucks and 15-16 does/yr off of 1200 acres.
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#2013646 - 08/01/10 10:38 AM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: megalomaniac]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Mega,
I definitely see more dramatic changes in body weights per age-class than improvements in antler size.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2014348 - 08/01/10 09:10 PM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: BSK]
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JCDEERMAN
14 Point
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 7635
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN
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We try to kill about 15 does every year. It is interesting that the years following a year that we hammer the does, we see a considerably higher number of bucks that following year.
I think there is more to a "Doe Sink". I tend to think it is more of a "Deer sink". We always see more deer the following year, but the buck numbers seem to be sky high that following year compared to years with just an average doe killing year the year before.
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Be nervous, but fear no one
In God we trust
God bless the USA!
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#2014381 - 08/01/10 09:28 PM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: BSK]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13537
Loc: Food Plot
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I have no facts to support it but last year was a really strange year. I suppose maybe because we had 4 consecutive weeks of gun hunting....two MZ and then Two Gun we have experienced an abnormal decrease in the amount of Doe sightings across our 3000 acre lease. I have hunted this property for 7 seasons now and this was the first of almost an entire shut down during the rut of doe movement in day light hours. I spent 13 days afield where the minimum i was on stand was 4 hours and up to a max of 7 consecutive hours and i was skunked of all doe movement completely. I have never experienced this before and cant explain it except i wonder if it was the 4 consecutive weeks of pressure. I have my doubts about this but i have no explanation. we have had other years of heavy mast, other years of "like" doe populations....i just cant figure it out and hope this was an anomally.... Time will tell and i will watch this with great attention since i am concerned. We have moderate doe populations from harvest of at least 25 per year max on most years and in some more. We have like managed properties around us including a management area below our southern border that encompasses around 4000 acres. I believe our does are just going under cover during the daylight hours. our lease only allows about 25 members so we arent over crowding our amount of deer per square mile. there are many days when we will only have 4 to 5 guys max there at all.....some only 2. I have been scratching my head ever since the last season ended wondering what really was the cause of the decreased doe sightings......I have hunted long enough to "just Know" ....something was amiss. sorry for the meanderings....
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#2014730 - 08/02/10 08:47 AM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: Boone 58]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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I have no facts to support it but last year was a really strange year.
You can say that again! But I don't think it was due to changes in hunting dates. I feel strongly it was driven by environmental conditions (climate).
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#2018270 - 08/04/10 09:43 PM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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Team Browning
8 Point
Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2033
Loc: Chattanooga
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wayyyyy too many variables unless you have a LOT of land so you can control a lot of the herd's dynamics.
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The time to buy is not when you need something. Be prepared.
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#2018279 - 08/04/10 09:48 PM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: BSK]
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tndrbstr
16 Point
Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn
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I have no facts to support it but last year was a really strange year. You can say that again! But I don't think it was due to changes in hunting dates. I feel strongly it was driven by environmental conditions (climate).
year before last were'nt no picnic either...least not where I hunted..
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#2018565 - 08/05/10 07:27 AM
Re: shooting Doe??
[Re: tndrbstr]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I have no facts to support it but last year was a really strange year. You can say that again! But I don't think it was due to changes in hunting dates. I feel strongly it was driven by environmental conditions (climate). year before last were'nt no picnic either...least not where I hunted..
Yup, that was the EHD year, which threw another monkey wrench into everything.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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