#2002129 - 07/21/10 12:44 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
|
Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25229
Loc: TN
|
Offline
|
|
My standards are definitely higher in say Pike co. Ill than they are in say Anderson co. TN
Its common sense and a proven fact that the bucks there grow quite a bit more antler per age class on average, than they do here. Thats like comparing how far you can hit a golf ball with a 9 iron vs a driver. What you have to work with from the start determines greatly what you can do in the end.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2002365 - 07/21/10 03:16 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: Winchester]
|
Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
|
|
Offline
|
|
My standards are definitely higher in say Pike co. Ill than they are in say Anderson co. TN
I do understand why it can make sense to have a higher standard in some places vs. others.
But a point I'm trying to get across is that I believe an above average 2 1/2-yr-old (even for Pike County) is more likely to get a pass in certain "trophy-mindset" states, than an above average 2 1/2-yr-old in Tennessee.
Let's just say a "top-end" 2 1/2 in Pike County might score 130,
while a "top-end" 2 1/2 in Anderson County might score 110. Perhaps that 2 1/2-yr-old 130 becomes a 3 1/2-yr-old 160, while our 2 1/2-yr-old 110 even at 4 1/2 only becomes a 150. My point is if we let more of our best 2 1/2's walk, we'd be seeing more 140-plus class bucks here, never mind there might be more 160-class bucks in Illinois.
Relatively speaking, I believe TN hunters have their expectations too low, and by taking out (relatively) more of our very largest antlered young bucks, we create our own reality of very few exceptionally large antlered older bucks.
When I'm hunting KY, I'm hunting for a 4 1/2-yr-old or older buck.
When I'm hunting TN, I'm hunting for a 4 1/2-yr-old or older buck.
To me, it's just beside the point that the buck I'm after will "probably" have larger antlers in KY than in TN.
And in either place, I'm trying to avoid taking out a top-end 2 1/2.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2002455 - 07/21/10 04:24 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: BSK]
|
Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
|
|
Offline
|
|
BSK,
Do you believe that highest scoring buck you have on your wall was likely a 120-class 2 1/2 when he was younger?
Now me, I would rather have that 150-class on my wall, than a 2 1/2-yr-old 120 in the woods I choose not to kill. 
And I'd bet you a dollar against a donut you're actually glad now you didn't see your highest scoring one when he was a 2 1/2?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2002463 - 07/21/10 04:29 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
|
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
|
|
Offline
|
|
BSK,
Do you believe that highest scoring buck you have on your wall was likely a 120-class 2 1/2 when he was younger?
That's an interesting question Wes. He may very well have been.
And he's lucky I didn't see him then!! 
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2002473 - 07/21/10 04:34 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: BSK]
|
Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
|
|
Offline
|
|
Now what was that he scored, and how old do you think he was when you got him?
And rumor has it, that poor buck died of a heart attack before you pulled the trigger, as he'd never seen such an ugly sight in the woods ---- you scared him to death. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2002521 - 07/21/10 05:15 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: Wes Parrish]
|
BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
|
|
Offline
|
|
IMHO -
High grading is not and does not occur on the landscape scale when you have "open" limits, meaning any buck is legal for harvest. Tennessee as well as all the one or two buck states have open harvest. The only evidence high grading is occuring is when you have large-scale antler restrictions which genrally means only your top-end young deer are legal for harvest. In other words only your smallest antlered young deer are protected from harvest. That is why the only evidence we have seen regarding high-grading comes out of Mississippi.
If I have time, I can almost guarantee I can look at the antler data from Tennessee and show where the average antler characteristic per age-class has not declined over time (which would be indicative of high-grading).
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#2002623 - 07/21/10 06:44 PM
Re: Why a limit change?
[Re: BigGameGuy]
|
Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
|
|
Offline
|
|
If I have time, I can almost guarantee I can look at the antler data from Tennessee and show where the average antler characteristic per age-class has not declined over time (which would be indicative of high-grading).
While I can appreciate TN's deer data (probably the best of any Southeastern state), I don't see how it can suggest much anything regarding the particular high-grading I'm talking about.
First, just how much data do you have from Tennessee's early deer seasons when no bucks were passed AND from most of our 95 counties? Back then, pretty much all bucks with visible antler were killed, and there was essentially no hunter selection regarding passing ANY bucks. There was also almost no bucks being killed that were 3 1/2 or older, and very few 2 1/2's compared to today.
Second, how could you possibly have had much data (from years ago) relating to even "older" bucks, much less mature ones? But it is interesting to note how many of TN's highest scoring bucks were taken back in those "good ole days", including the state record typical (yet to be broken) from 1959. Or how about those best ones from Catoosa WMA and Shelby County in the 1960's?
But even today, we can count on one hand the number of fully mature bucks taken in most counties annually (or at least, the ones that get officially aged by TWRA).
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: RUGER, Tennessee Todd, Unicam, Cuttin Caller, CBU93, stretch, Bobby G, Outdoor Lady, TurkeyBurd
|
12102 Members
38 Forums
115544 Topics
1407779 Posts
Max Online: 756 @ 11/20/12 09:10 AM
|
|
|
The TnDeer.Com Deer Talk Forum is for Tennessee Deer Hunters by Tennessee Deer Hunters. If you enjoy using our Talk Forum and would like to contribute to help in it's up-keep. Just submit your contribution by clicking on the DONATE button below and paying with PayPal or a major credit card. Any amount is much appreciated. Thanks for your support!
|
|
|
