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#2000852 - 07/20/10 01:23 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: Bottom Hunter]
tndrbstr
16 Point


Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn

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 Originally Posted By: Bottom Hunter
I know that deer are not capable of rational thought,



Exactly,.....Thats what makes it so ironic (and entertaining) that so many hunters continually try to apply a rationalization process to their actions...

HAHA,...all we need to do is get the deer to read TNDEER and then they would know what they are supposed to do!!!! ;\) \:D





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#2000856 - 07/20/10 01:25 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: tndrbstr]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59553
Loc: Nashville, TN

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No animal other than Humans are capable of rational thought. However, the ability to recognize danger and respond to like situations in the future (avoidance behavior) requires no rational thought. Just conditional memory.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#2000860 - 07/20/10 01:29 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: BSK]
tndrbstr
16 Point


Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn

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 Originally Posted By: BSK
No animal other than Humans are capable of rational thought. However, the ability to recognize danger and respond to like situations in the future (avoidance behavior) requires no rational thought. Just conditional memory.


Just for the record,...I have my doubts about many humans too...

I think animals in general key in more so on what works as a point of conditioning....not so much as what doesn't work....







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#2000871 - 07/20/10 01:38 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: tndrbstr]
Tomahawk
6 Point


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn

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 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: Bottom Hunter
I know that deer are not capable of rational thought,



Exactly,.....Thats what makes it so ironic (and entertaining) that so many hunters continually try to apply a rationalization process to their actions...

HAHA,...all we need to do is get the deer to read TNDEER and then they would know what they are supposed to do!!!! ;\) \:D




Funny how deer can know the difference between the farmer and his tractor and a hunter in his truck/atv. I've watched deer stay in the far field while farmer does his thing but let a atv or truck come to the tractor and the deer will bolt. Don't know what is in their head but they probably have more intelligence than me... \:D


Edited by Tomahawk (07/20/10 01:39 PM)

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#2000877 - 07/20/10 01:40 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: tndrbstr]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59553
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: BSK
No animal other than Humans are capable of rational thought. However, the ability to recognize danger and respond to like situations in the future (avoidance behavior) requires no rational thought. Just conditional memory.


Just for the record,...I have my doubts about many humans too...


HA!!! On that we certainly agree! \:D


 Quote:
I think animals in general key in more so on what works as a point of conditioning....not so much as what doesn't work....


Yup, and no thought probably goes beyond the first trial and error process. In essence, if some given behavior keeps them safe, they will keep using that behavior over and over without "trying something different." They don't have the conceptual ability to even consider the possibility that "something different" might work better.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

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#2000879 - 07/20/10 01:41 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: Tomahawk]
tndrbstr
16 Point


Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tomahawk
 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: Bottom Hunter
I know that deer are not capable of rational thought,



Exactly,.....Thats what makes it so ironic (and entertaining) that so many hunters continually try to apply a rationalization process to their actions...

HAHA,...all we need to do is get the deer to read TNDEER and then they would know what they are supposed to do!!!! ;\) \:D




Funny how deer can know the difference between the farmer and his tractor and a hunter in his truck/atv. I've watched deer stay in the far field while farmer does his thing but let a atv or truck come to the tractor and the deer will bolt. Don't know what is in their head but they probably have more intelligence than me... \:D


When you find one that can count to ten you let me know alright!?... \:D \:D





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#2000885 - 07/20/10 01:47 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: Tomahawk]
BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical


Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59553
Loc: Nashville, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Tomahawk
Funny how deer can know the difference between the farmer and his tractor and a hunter in his truck/atv. I've watched deer stay in the far field while farmer does his thing but let a atv or truck come to the tractor and the deer will bolt. Don't know what is in their head but they probably have more intelligence than me... \:D


Actually it's a pretty easy process to understand. Tractor has never caused them harm, hence the deer ignore it. At some point the deer had a negative encounter (which they classify as "danger") with a truck/ATV. They then react very negatively to a truck/ATV in the future. The big question in many researchers minds is how did the deer learn the truck/ATV was dangerous? Was it taught to them by their mother? Was it a first hand experience? Can deer "learn" by watching what happens to other deer? Basically, the big question is, how do deer learn what is and is not dangerous?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James

Top
#2000888 - 07/20/10 01:49 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: tndrbstr]
Tomahawk
6 Point


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: Tomahawk
 Originally Posted By: tndrbstr
 Originally Posted By: Bottom Hunter
I know that deer are not capable of rational thought,



Exactly,.....Thats what makes it so ironic (and entertaining) that so many hunters continually try to apply a rationalization process to their actions...

HAHA,...all we need to do is get the deer to read TNDEER and then they would know what they are supposed to do!!!! ;\) \:D




Funny how deer can know the difference between the farmer and his tractor and a hunter in his truck/atv. I've watched deer stay in the far field while farmer does his thing but let a atv or truck come to the tractor and the deer will bolt. Don't know what is in their head but they probably have more intelligence than me... \:D


When you find one that can count to ten you let me know alright!?... \:D \:D




NOW that is funny!! If I do I'm keeping to my self, look for me on Ripleys believe it or not... \:D

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#2000891 - 07/20/10 01:52 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: Tomahawk]
Tomahawk
6 Point


Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 762
Loc: east & west tn

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Thanks for clarification BSK. I myself have a grasp on that logic and was just trying to point out a learning situation for deer. Maybe not rational thought but something is being put together in their heads.
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#2000898 - 07/20/10 01:56 PM Re: Pressure and memory....... [Re: BSK]
tndrbstr
16 Point


Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
 Originally Posted By: Tomahawk
Funny how deer can know the difference between the farmer and his tractor and a hunter in his truck/atv. I've watched deer stay in the far field while farmer does his thing but let a atv or truck come to the tractor and the deer will bolt. Don't know what is in their head but they probably have more intelligence than me... \:D


Actually it's a pretty easy process to understand. Tractor has never caused them harm, hence the deer ignore it. At some point the deer had a negative encounter (which they classify as "danger") with a truck/ATV. They then react very negatively to a truck/ATV in the future. The big question in many researchers minds is how did the deer learn the truck/ATV was dangerous? Was it taught to them by their mother? Was it a first hand experience? Can deer "learn" by watching what happens to other deer? Basically, the big question is, how do deer learn what is and is not dangerous?


I would guess that it is a relationship to the farmiliarity in the differant patterns (time of day and travel patterns) and sounds (varying pitches) of the differant vehicles they encounter on a regularl basis.....







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