Try driving aroundChristian,Butler,or other WKY counties

yes and drive around Montgomery and Stewart right below them.Some pretty nice deer in the 3 buck state.

Kind of my pointI was trying to make before.Nice deer in both states in that area.In my part I hunt some small deer on both sides.

You are making my point for me,go above the line,B&C heaven,below,its not close,25 miles,whats the difference?Nice bucks,or B&C bucks?

FC is very controlled,rest of area?

I highly suspect if a person looked at the percentage of the county in agricultural production on each side of the line for those that there might be a real clue on why one set might be growing some better antlers.

I highly suspect if a person looked at the percentage of the county in agricultural production on each side of the line for those that there might be a real clue on why one set might be growing some better antlers.

Guess you never saw some of the deer shot in that area?

Yes I have,but few of them compare to what is north of there

I have no greveance with anY TWRA official at all,would love for you ,SCN,to come to my land in Perry county,but after being in Shelby county today,and seeinf=g every inch of ground in corn,but mostly soy beans,it did look a whole lot like WKY

I do,I hunt there every year,thanks for permission,BTW,show me a 150 or 160 from Stewart

Kentucky Bucks on a friends lease........


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1253723&id=1080368977

I too have seen soil maps that had sections of west TN shaded in with the great Mid-west soils. I hunt right in that area of west TN that was in the small area of shaded pink (I think that was the color). And there is no doubt a great herd of deer in that area. To me the soil doesn't look so great but the bucks do. I believe that the gene pool within this area is just as much of a factor. Would not be surprised at all if new state record came from within 5 miles of my hunting land. There are a few or more deer that would qualify for B&C just on the acres I hunt. I know I have seen several with my on eyes as well as occasional trail camera pic.

Not to hijack the post but heres a couple of maps that I put together... I guess the investigator side came out in me...
[img][/img]

nic

W.

P.S. We have a lot of fruits in FL...

Chaneylake Hunt Club is off of Hwy 70 between Brownsville and Stanton.

The Main Office of the HNWR is off of Hwy 76 near I-40 exit 56, just a few miles outside of Brownsville......

If you took 385 to 64 and then went east, you might have passed through Somerville. If so, then if you had taken hwy 76 North, you would have driven right through the heart of HNWR and seen the signs for O'Neal lake and the Refuge office.

While in Arlington, if you had taken Hwy 70 North or maybe east, you would have driven through several small towns, but after you got out of Stanton, you would soon pass by the entrance to CLHC....

I have never been to any other parts of the HNWR system. I think there is only two, but I may be mistaken. We live near the MAIN division...11,566 acres.

i did not know that there were any refuge areas near hwy. 64, but I certainly do not know everything......contrary to popular belief......lol

Did you actually see a HNWR sign or just a sign for the HATCHIE RIVER,,,,?? curious.....

thanks

. I've hunted north enough in recent years to be firmly convinced that there is little if any difference in the age structure between here and there. But, there is about 20" more bone in every age class on up the road.

Actually went to the co op inSomerville,then went back,thats right,on 76 I guess,sign said Hatchie NWR

I have no greveance with anY TWRA official at all,would love for you ,SCN,to come to my land in Perry county,but after being in Shelby county today,and seeinf=g every inch of ground in corn,but mostly soy beans,it did look a whole lot like WKY

Take maps of Alfisol or Milisol soils, and cross reference that to maps of planted acres of soybeans and corn per county and then maps of crops yeilds per acre per county and that's a pretty amazing match to the areas that produce the most B&C bucks.

Butler, Christian and Todd Counties in KY are top-notch big buck areas. So are the Nashville basin and the MS River floodplain.

So what makes the difference in B&C entries,its not even close.

So what makes the difference in B&C entries,its not even close.

Believe it or not, "16 more" is a huge amount of B&C bucks when
you compare two counties in one state over two counties in
another state, that are just a few miles away.

Great post BGG!

Been booners out of those counties.Well heres a puzzler for you.Fort Campbell had more booners killed when they had a two buck limit than with the current one buck limit.most of the really big bucks killed at fc where back in the late 80's so guess buck limits aren't everything.

Great post BGG!

yes it was but i don't understand. you guys are saying that the soil is the only difference, but the comparison was about 4 counties with VERY similar soil, 2 in KY and 2 in TN. so if they are so similar, then what is the difference?

Why cant everyone be happy to even be able to hunt?? I Tennessee went to 1 buck limit the results would be the same.The same people would fine some more excuses to complain about instead of ammiting that they probally are that great of hunters...I know for a fact their are some BIG deer here in Tennessee.I have seen them..I have seen deer that would probally go into the record books time and time again..But most of the good hunters dont care about records...They just like the thrill of the hunt...I have also noticed that the same people kill big bucks year in and year out...Dont never hear them complain...they are just hunters...not every one can be a good hunter...just like not everyone can be a good football,basketball,baseball player...Thats all this debate comes down to making excuses why they cant kill big bucks...but people in other states do...We will never be Kentucky...and Kentucky will never be tennessee....SO PLEASE GET OVER IT>>>>thats whats runing hunting.

So the reason more B&C entries come from 2 KY counties that border 2 TN counties is because of glacial soils and more acres of agriculture?

Interesting opinions.

Talked to one of our soil scientists a while back (who is also an avid deer hunter). He mapped the soils on LBL and said they are some of the poorest in the region. However, LBL has one of the highest concentrations of B&C entries in TN. Just something to think about...

RAFI, I'm just providing the facts. Our agency mapped the soils on LBL (as well as everywhere else in the U.S.). I have no reason to think our soil scientists would make flase claims.

On a side note, I walked a lot of those ag fields on LBL this past turkey season. Next time you hunt there, see how many chert fragments you find in those crop fields. I can't imagine how many disc blades have been broken over the years.

If you have your maps that prove these other maps wrong then post them up.

Read the bottom left corner of the map where it says "NRCS." That is our map.

So the reason more B&C entries come from 2 KY counties that border 2 TN counties is because of glacial soils and more acres of agriculture?

Interesting opinions.

Chris -

In your opinion, what is causing the difference between the two areas between the two states?

Why do I believe the key to this discussion is unmanaged lands?

Good discussion and I appreciate the opportunity to provide my input.

I'll use a "Wes-ism" right here. Don't worry we're friends so he won't be too offended...

"16 more" is actually 300% more which is sounds like a HUGE amount. That is until you put it in perspective.
. . . . . . .
I'd take 150,000% over 300% anyday.

In all seriousness...

If you look at the numbers over the last decade or so, those two Kentucky counties have killed approximately 3,600 bucks that were 3-1/2 years of age or older. The Tennessee counties have killed approximately 5,400 bucks that were 3-1/2 years of age or older.

We are killing one and a half times more mature bucks than they are yet they are putting more deer into the record books.

Since age is not the issue, it must be something else . . . nutrition.

Think about it, a few extra inches per age-class is all you need to tip the record books in your favor. Unfortunately the scales are, and will always be, tipped in Kentucky's favor.

Actually, it's all a matter of "perspective".
From my perspective, 300% more of anything is "significant", as in your "chances" of getting something might be 3 times better.

But you may be talking mosquitoes while I'm talking bucks.
From my perspective, you've just given another "Doodling Darylism."


AND ANTLER-HIGH GRADING, particularly of top-end 2 1/2-yr-old TN bucks at a much higher rate than of top-end 2 1/2-yr-old KY bucks.

IMO, this ANTLER-HIGH GRADING has become a bigger issue than nutrition (or soil) in comparing many "similar" KY counties to many "similar" TN counties. Again, compare Henry County, TN to any of a number of both KY and TN counties.


Yes, THINK about it.
What happens when nearly all of the largest antlered 2 1/2's get killed in TN, while a high percentage of them survive among their "peer" or relative cohort group in KY?

Seriously, you know I'm not saying ALL top-end bucks of any age are being killed in TN. Just saying that an extremely large 2 1/2 yr-old buck in KY is perhaps 300% more likely to survive to 4 1/2 in KY. While those best 2 1/2's that DO survive in TN, are then much more likely to be killed as a 3 1/2 in TN than they would have been in KY.

At the end of the day, we may have more "mature" bucks in TN,
but what we have may be more the result of the smaller antlered bucks many hunters found EASY to pass up as 2 1/2's. Meaning we have smaller-antlered mature bucks in TN, not so much because of nutritional differences, but more because of hunter "mindset" differences.

By the way, antler high-grading is happening in all states, just appears to be happening at a much lower rate in states (and locations within states) where hunters have the "mindset" that it's a "trophy" buck area.

wes how do you get your numbers that lbl has a lower deer density than most other wmas?there are more wooded areas than fields by far but my point was that lbl still has more ag. than probably any other public land in Tn.

In other words,a "good en" gets killed in Tn,while in Ky a "good en" gets a pass waiting on a "great en",nothing to do with limits though.

agreed,because,"I can still kill 2 more"BTW IM for a 2 buck limit.