#1975725 - 06/28/10 10:14 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: BigCam50]
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redblood
16 Point
Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 10139
Loc: Lewisburg
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...but not all passionate hunters want the same thing . . . . . . . . . some of the most passionate hunters on this sight have been dead wrong in thier assments of not only the state deer herds but even in thier own back yards . . . . I think we call that "conflict".  And part of why it's such a challenge for TWRA to sort thru all the various opinions of the passionate. Of course, there may be "conflict" even between the opinions of passionate deer biologists.  Best we can do is be civil in our disagreements, try to effectively communicate our thoughts, seriously listen to the thoughts of opposing opinions, and avoid doing things that harm the future of hunting. I particularly don't like to see hunters "divided" by different factions, such as the "bow" hunters and the "gun" hunters, the "trophy" hunters vs. the "meat" hunters, or the "bear" hunters vs. the "deer" hunters. These divisions may cause hunting to be outlawed much sooner than it would happen just from the actions of the anti-hunters, as I perceive the future survival of hunting is now based mainly on how we as hunters present ourselves to a mostly non-hunting public. great post!
It is a great post but it is unrealistic.people excel in conflict and we are not going to agree about this issue. There will always be debate and disagreement. All we can do is keep it civil.
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"I will predator hunt for food "
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#1975733 - 06/28/10 10:22 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: woodchuckc]
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TN RDG RNR
12 Point
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 6086
Loc: Rhea County
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Another thing that is important to keeping deer hunting (all hunting, actually) is to recruit new hunters. As the population in general ages, and especially the hunter population, we (both hunters and TWRA) have to take into consideration how we can make hunting something that the non-hunters find attractive and exciting. Most of us on TNDeer started hunting when the buck limits were more liberal, and I think it is fair to say that most of us took advantage of those liberal limits. This not only kept us excited and motivated, but also helped us to learn how to hunt. I don't want to see such restrictive regulations that new hunters are not able to experience this. Generally speaking, as we "matured" most of us changed our hunting goals and sheer numbers of bucks killed was not our primary focus. As BSK, BGG, and many others have pointed out, lowering the buck limit was only one factor in this, and part of it has been a general change in the mindset of hunters.
However, I think that the segment of "passionate" hunters who advocate things like 1 buck limits, antler restrictions, and other severe restrictions don't recognize that measures like this may have a negative impact on bringing new hunters on board. It may serve their hunting purposes and goals better, but do we want to possibly risk the future loss of hunting altogether by reducing future hunter numbers to the point of making us irrelevant just to cater to their hunting goals? Sure, in Unit L hunters can kill a huge number of does but I believe that part of the excitement of new hunters is killing deer with antlers - any size antlers (I know that it was for me). I think this is one important reason for not going overboard with restricting buck limit regulations. I think that we have hit the "sweet spot" with regulations - liberal enough that new hunters and those who want to be able to kill multiple bucks of any size each season can do that, and conservative enough that hunters who want to target mature or large-antlered bucks have a large enough population of them to be successful too. I am not strongly opposed to a two buck limit, but I really don't have any problem with keeping it at three.
Just my humble opinion!
I agree 100% woodchuckc,
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WARNING: The above post may contain sarcasm and/or sophisticated satire. I will not be held liable for any psychological damage sustained.
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#1975757 - 06/28/10 10:43 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: woodchuckc]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Another thing that is important to keeping deer hunting (all hunting, actually) is to recruit new hunters. As the population in general ages, and especially the hunter population, we (both hunters and TWRA) have to take into consideration how we can make hunting something that the non-hunters find attractive and exciting. I totally agree.
It is with this line of thinking that you so often hear me advocating "either-sex" deer regs as opposed to "buck only" regs.
To a new hunter, being able to kill ANY deer seems more worth their pursuit than being limited to bucks only? (Entry level deer hunting in TN is currently "buck only", as those who want to "give deer hunting a try" are required to pay at least twice as much for an "either-sex" opportunity instead of the traditional "buck only" one. My contention is these entry-level hunters are the ones least likely to be willing to pay extra for a doe tag, therefore they are largely "regulated" to bucks only.)
To the non-hunting public, "buck only" regs are "trophy" hunting regs, as "trophy bucks" are the targets of trophy hunters. When female deer are excluded as targets, the non-hunting public's perception (right or wrong) goes from seeing hunters as useful tools of deer management, to seeing hunters as just "trophy hunters".
To the non-hunting pubic, the "buck only" regs may then become more likely perceived as something the state game agency is using more to create living targets (more bucks to shoot), instead of the purpose the general public finds more valid: Deer Management.
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#1975786 - 06/28/10 11:03 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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fishboy1
14 Point
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 9694
Loc: Warren Co
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Wes, Please remember that the 1 doe tag included in rifle "deer" license would also apply to those areas with super high hunter density.
That is why they have different units. IF there were enough does that a "free" doe with every gun license wouldn't hurt the herd, then I am sure they would already be allowing it.
Unfortunately, in areas with high hunter numbers and low habitat carrying capacity, there will likely NEVER be enough deer to allow a liberal harvest plan like unit L.
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A gun in the hand is worth 2 cops on the phone. No one can name a single power the government has granted itself that hasn't been abused. Socialism is for losers http://amillerphotoevent.com
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#1975985 - 06/28/10 03:06 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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fishboy1
14 Point
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 9694
Loc: Warren Co
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Wes, You have to remember that archery hunters having the legal opportunity to kill does doesn't mean they can fill all those tags.
IF harvest numbers are where they want them to be, then giving a free doe to gun hunters will likely result in a vastly increased harvest.
There are simply a LOT more gun hunters. Opening weekend of gun has the highest hunter pressure which keeps deer on the move and sightings up. Gun hunting is much more effective than archery.
IF TWRA wanted to vastly increase the number of does killed, they could add one "free" one to the regular gun permit, BUT that is not a good idea in many areas.
_________________________
A gun in the hand is worth 2 cops on the phone. No one can name a single power the government has granted itself that hasn't been abused. Socialism is for losers http://amillerphotoevent.com
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#1976832 - 06/29/10 09:56 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: woodchuckc]
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mr.hicks
4 Point
Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 331
Loc: knoxville,tn
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the one buck limit in ohio never hurt the excitement i had growing up hunting there. we were able to take two deer all season, one tag could be a buck or doe. i would like to see the two buck limit but be extremely encouraged to see the antler restrictions on that third buck. earn a buck that sort a thing. how many young bucks need to be killed by a newby to keep them in the huntin routine. i think TWRA has done a good job so far. lets just not take the limit past three bucks! imo
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no matter where ever you go, there you are... Buckaroo Bonzai
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#1976837 - 06/29/10 09:58 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: mr.hicks]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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While growing up, the one buck limit in KY (at the time) never hurt my excitement for deer hunting either, but then I found TN and the "Promised Land!"
As long as the harvested buck age structure continues to improve, I don't care what the buck limit is. But if it begins to decline, then I'll push for a lower limit.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1976877 - 06/29/10 10:24 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: BSK]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25229
Loc: TN
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While growing up, the one buck limit in KY (at the time) never hurt my excitement for deer hunting either, but then I found TN and the "Promised Land!"
As long as the harvested buck age structure continues to improve, I don't care what the buck limit is. But if it begins to decline, then I'll push for a lower limit. Exactly right, its getting better now, no need to change the buck limits.
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#1976891 - 06/29/10 10:38 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: fishboy1]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16952
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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You have to remember that archery hunters (and muzzleloader hunters, and "gun" hunters) having the legal opportunity to kill does doesn't mean they can fill all those tags.
No disagreement there from me.
I'm just suggesting SHIFTING some of that doe-harvest OPPORTUNITY to those newbie or more "casual" hunters who may only go afield a time or two annually, or maybe just a time or two in a lifetime. The avid deer hunters (like you and me) have no shortage of doe-harvest opportunities. I really don't mind if a small amount of mine is allowed to greatly improve the "opportunity" for some new hunter. Just saying give those "casual" hunters a single doe tag much like archery and muzzleloader hunters are currently given multiple doe tags.
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