#1972518 - 06/25/10 10:00 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: BSK]
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StalkingWolf
8 Point
Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 1231
Loc: Dyersburg, TN, USA
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TWRA has done more for (me) deer and turkey hunting in my lifetime than ANY other Government Agency I can think of by FAR!
(Excluding the GREATEST humans on earth...the U.S. Military of course)
Well said!
Ditto That!!
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#1972735 - 06/25/10 01:45 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: StalkingWolf]
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fishboy1
14 Point
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 9719
Loc: Warren Co
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If you took the entire membership... it may be a representative sample......MAYBE.
Look at the top posters on here.
How many people in the serious forum that post kill more than 1 deer per year? How many posters only kill a deer every other year?
The majority of active posters kill at least 1 deer per year and many posters kill more. Compare that % with the state wide harvest results.
Add in the very experienced big buck hunters like Winchester and a few others..... and you have a very high concentration of hunters who regularly kill mature deer per sample size.
TNDEER members tend to be passionate hunters who have better than average opportunities for deer hunting. We tend to make deer hunting a priority and spend more than the average number of hunting hours per year in the woods. Most guys only get out a couple weekends a year. Most TNDEER posters get out more than that. A LOT of Tndeer posters have access to private lands or leases. Compare that with the "average" TN hunter who only hunts a couple days per year and may be restricted to public lands.
SO... Tndeer is not a good representative sample of TN hunters overall. Not enough "one weekend per year" hunters on here to balance out the passionate "go every chance I can get" guys % wise.
_________________________
A gun in the hand is worth 2 cops on the phone. No one can name a single power the government has granted itself that hasn't been abused. Socialism is for losers http://amillerphotoevent.com
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#1972776 - 06/25/10 02:27 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: fishboy1]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16993
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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SO... Tndeer is not a good representative sample of TN hunters overall.
While I agree with that statement, I think it understates the value of TWRA's listening most to the most passionate (of their customers) concerning deer management & deer hunting. It's typically been when TWRA failed to listen to this group, that conflicts arose between hunters & the TWRA or between the TWRA and the TWRC. When TWRA seemed to ignore the most passionate deer hunters in 1998, the hunters then turned to the TWRC to help get some significant changes in statewide deer management, i.e. reducing the 11-buck limit to a 2-buck limit. That 1998 buck-limit reduction change has since proven popular with most TN deer hunters, regardless of how much (or little) they hunt.
As a group, the more passionate also tend to be more knowledgeable and more experienced in witnessing the results of TWRA's management. Most hunters who only go out a weekend or two a year typically "could care less" whatever TWRA does or does not, as about all many "average" hunters want to know are the basic rules of the game, so they don't inadvertently break a law.
In fact, most of these "average" hunters truly don't care at all whether the buck limit is one or a baker's dozen --- they're actually more interested in whether a single doe is legal or illegal.
To their credit, TWRA appears to be listening much more attentively to the desires of their customers today, than say back in the 1990's. I'll just close by saying, "Thank You".
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#1972804 - 06/25/10 03:02 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Tennessee Todd
Democrat & proud
16 Point
Registered: 03/12/99
Posts: 12507
Loc: TuTu City, Tn
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Better lock this thread down boys, Wes said "Thank You."
It will only go down hill from here
_________________________
This Country might survive Obama but what we won't survive is the mindset that elected him.
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#1973430 - 06/26/10 07:49 AM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: Tennessee Todd]
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fishboy1
14 Point
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 9719
Loc: Warren Co
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Wes,
A few questions to make sure I understand your point.
TWRA listens to the passionate hunters more than the casual hunter ?
The passionate hunters opinion should have a higher value than the casual hunter ?
Passionate hunters having a louder voice than the casual hunter would be a good thing ?
Passionate hunters have a better understanding than casual hunters about what is "good" for TN deer hunters ?
Passionate hunters, since they are passionate, make the right assumptions about how to handle the TN deer herd ?
Passionate hunters, "know" what is "right" for TN deer hunters ?
Looking for some clarification thanks!
_________________________
A gun in the hand is worth 2 cops on the phone. No one can name a single power the government has granted itself that hasn't been abused. Socialism is for losers http://amillerphotoevent.com
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#1973629 - 06/26/10 12:28 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: fishboy1]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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fishboy,
my grandma always said, 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease' when I didn't think it was fair that my sisters often got preferential treatment over me when they were complaining and I wasn't.
I think Wes is saying that opinions of those hunters who spend more time afield, purchase hunting licenses with more regularity, spend more monies on hunting supplies/trips thereby boosting local economies more frequently SHOULD have more weight than the occasional weekend warrior. The passionate hunters may or may not know what is 'right' for TN deer hunters. Likewise they may or may not know what are the right assumptions about how to handle TN's deer herd.
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#1973691 - 06/26/10 02:11 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: fishboy1]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16993
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Fishboy,
I'm making some broad generalizations here, and we can both easily find exceptions to them. But there are exceptions to most generalizations, while most circumstances are not an exception.
Wes,
A few questions to make sure I understand your point.
TWRA listens to the passionate hunters more than the casual hunter?
As a matter of fact, yes, I think they do, although they have by no means turned any deaf ears to any hunters.
The passionate hunters opinion should have a higher value than the casual hunter?
Maybe not in the context you're asking, but in the reality I'm seeing, yes, the more passionate hunters' opinions should have a higher value (to TWRA) than those hunters who rarely hunt.
I say this to emphasize there's a large group of "casual" hunters who really don't care whether the buck limit is one or a baker's dozen. They are much more interested in just knowing what the rules are (to avoid an accidental violation), than in having an opinion about those rules. Among this group, which is possibly the majority of license purchasers (who are at least legally licensed to deer hunt during "gun" season), not only do they care little that TWRA might listen more to another group of hunters, but the most "casual" are not offering any input at all unless pressed by TWRA for their input (such as per some UT survey). Conversely, the more passionate deer hunters are more vocal, and actually communicating their thoughts to TWRA.
Passionate hunters having a louder voice than the casual hunter would be a good thing?
I don't know if this is a good thing, or not.
But it's just reality that more passionate hunters (just like me and yourself included) do in fact have a louder voice and more opinions than those less passionate.
Passionate hunters have a better understanding than casual hunters about what is "good" for TN deer hunters?
Generally speaking, yes.
Although what some passionate hunters want most is not necessarily what is best for either most casual hunters or most passionate hunters.
Passionate hunters, since they are passionate, make the right assumptions about how to handle the TN deer herd?
Absolutely not.
But they do tend (as a group) to have better ideas and know more about the subject matter than those who have experienced much less, and care much less.
Passionate hunters, "know" what is "right" for TN deer hunters?
Just saying they tend to know more than the less passionate.
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#1973695 - 06/26/10 02:16 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: megalomaniac]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16993
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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I think Wes is saying that opinions of those hunters who spend more time afield, purchase hunting licenses with more regularity, spend more monies on hunting supplies/trips thereby boosting local economies more frequently SHOULD have more weight than the occasional weekend warrior.
Pretty much, if for no more reason than TWRA's "weighting" of their passionate preferences can have a bigger positive impact to TWRA and the hunters with preferences, than TWRA's "weighting" regarding simply guessing what the less passionate "might" prefer.
The below is from an entirely different thread, but just too insightful not to repost here.
It is actually quite simple to create a situation where you have the maximum number of older bucks surviving in the herd...simply permit NO HUNTING.
We are trying to strike that balance between opportunity and herd health. The question is, where should we strike that line?
Regarding that line, it's the most passionate of hunters that care most where that line lies. The less passionate care little, so long as that line is somewhere above NO HUNTING and allowing HUNTING.
So how do we strike the balance between the best and the most deer hunting opportunities to the most deer hunters?
Or should we weight this a bit towards the most passionate deer hunters? Then should we weight this a bit towards hunters who don't hunt deer, since deer hunting can interfere with say rabbit hunting?
Or how about the weighting of non-hunters who are concerned about too many deer eating their gardens and expensive oriental shrubbery (BSK comes to mind)?
After all, the majority of Tennesseans do NOT deer hunt, but if they perceive TWRA isn't doing a good job in controlling deer densities, the non-hunters turn to their state congressmen, who then start turning everything into a political circus instead of a good balance of wildlife management including great deer hunting opportunities for those most passionate about their deer hunting.
You see, if deer hunting were totally outlawed, most people would suffer no loss. The casual deer hunters would just be disappointed. But to the most passionate deer hunters, this would be, well, hard to imagine life without deer hunting?
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#1973708 - 06/26/10 02:34 PM
Re: Faith in TWRA??
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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tndrbstr
16 Point
Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn
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The passionate hunters opinion should have a higher value than the casual hunter? Maybe not in the context you're asking, but in the reality I'm seeing, yes, the more passionate hunters' opinions should have a higher value (to TWRA) than those hunters who rarely hunt.
ok, lets say that is a given...but not all passionate hunters want the same thing...I'm consider myself a very passionate hunter, as much as any on this site...but regulations to manage for antlers is not high on my list. in fact it is not even on my list at all...
Passionate hunters have a better understanding than casual hunters about what is "good" for TN deer hunters? Generally speaking, yes.
I don't neccesarily agree with that either...
Passionate hunters, "know" what is "right" for TN deer hunters? Just saying they tend to know more than the less passionate.
I know I don't agree with that...some of the most passionate hunters on this sight have been dead wrong not only in thier assments of what the majority of hunters want, but also in thier assements in the managment of the states deer herds as a whole...heck, some even on the herd in thier own back yards...but you couldn't tell them that...or much else for that matter! 
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