#1975028 - 06/27/10 07:50 PM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: Beekeeper]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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About 42%.
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1975030 - 06/27/10 07:52 PM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: Beekeeper]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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About 42%.
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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#1975054 - 06/27/10 08:12 PM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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I guess most of those were killed in W. Tn due to the 3 a day rule...?
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#1975089 - 06/27/10 08:32 PM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: Football Hunter]
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redblood
16 Point
Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 10158
Loc: Lewisburg
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Just one ?How would have more older age class bucks be "bad" for the herd.I have never heard of a state that had "too many bucks",ever. It is actually quite simple to create a situation where you have the maximum number of older bucks surviving in the herd...simply permit NO HUNTING. We are trying to strike that balance between opportunity and herd health. The question is, where should we strike that line? Yes,I realize we cant close hunting,and its not your job to create trophy bucks,but still,it seems impossible to have too many bucks,Ive never heard of a herd that is like that.People keep saying how would it benefit the herd,and I keep asking,how would it hurt. Also,if we closed deer season,wouldnt it actually hurt mature buck populations,at least in unit L type areas with runaway doe populations,wouldnt they eventually eat themselves out of house and home?
not if we closed hunting on bucks only. it would actually help balance doe populations because it world force hunters who never or rarely take a doe to do so for meat.
_________________________
"I will predator hunt for food "
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#1975111 - 06/27/10 08:48 PM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: BigGameGuy]
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Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point
Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 10943
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee
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BGG,
I believe that the natural mortality of does is greater than the natural mortality of bucks. In your opinion, would the 42% killed added to the higher natural mortality of doe’s approach 50% of the total mortality of Deer?
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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#1975172 - 06/27/10 09:15 PM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: redblood]
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RAFI
10 Point
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 2552
Loc: Tn
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Just one ?How would have more older age class bucks be "bad" for the herd.I have never heard of a state that had "too many bucks",ever. It is actually quite simple to create a situation where you have the maximum number of older bucks surviving in the herd...simply permit NO HUNTING. We are trying to strike that balance between opportunity and herd health. The question is, where should we strike that line? Yes,I realize we cant close hunting,and its not your job to create trophy bucks,but still,it seems impossible to have too many bucks,Ive never heard of a herd that is like that.People keep saying how would it benefit the herd,and I keep asking,how would it hurt. Also,if we closed deer season,wouldnt it actually hurt mature buck populations,at least in unit L type areas with runaway doe populations,wouldnt they eventually eat themselves out of house and home? not if we closed hunting on bucks only. it would actually help balance doe populations because it world force hunters who never or rarely take a doe to do so for meat.
Or guys like you Rb could just shoot some does to help manage the herd rather than question twra and others.It is funny how you admit that you never shoot does then talk about herd health and making the state better.hunters like you don't help manage at all.you guys take and then want more and try to tell others what to shoot. 
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#1975454 - 06/28/10 07:19 AM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: Beekeeper]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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BGG, I believe that the natural mortality of does is greater than the natural mortality of bucks. In your opinion, would the 42% killed added to the higher natural mortality of doe’s approach 50% of the total mortality of Deer?
Actually bucks have a higher natural mortality rate, due to yearling buck dispersal, the lack of wariness of young bucks during their first rut (gets them into trouble more often), and death due to fighting injuries.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1975541 - 06/28/10 08:28 AM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: BSK]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16965
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Actually bucks have a higher natural mortality rate . . . .
True, which is part of why I'd like to see the "official documented" hunter harvest numbers showing an annual harvest closer to 55% females and 45% males, generally speaking. (Thinking our female harvest is currently around 42% with male 58%.) Just as a "for comparison" (and NO I don't want a 1-buck limit like KY), the KY statewide harvest has been above 50% female for many years.
That said, the actual number of female deer harvested (relative to the number that exist) may be more important than the ratio of female harvest to male harvest. But harvest "ratios" of male vs. female are nonetheless very important to herd health, buck mortality (generally speaking, higher living buck ratio to living doe = lower buck mortality), and even hunter success on being able to harvest mature bucks.
Also, don't know if we should call this "natural" or not, but,
bucks are also more subject to being poached, and maybe less likely to show up in the "official" harvest numbers?
If a would-be poacher is driving down a road, and there stands a "trophy" buck beside a doe, which one gets shot? To me, this seems all the more reason to manage for an "official legal hunter harvest" to be slightly more female than male.
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#1975666 - 06/28/10 09:45 AM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: RAFI]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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Just one ?How would have more older age class bucks be "bad" for the herd.I have never heard of a state that had "too many bucks",ever. It is actually quite simple to create a situation where you have the maximum number of older bucks surviving in the herd...simply permit NO HUNTING. We are trying to strike that balance between opportunity and herd health. The question is, where should we strike that line? Yes,I realize we cant close hunting,and its not your job to create trophy bucks,but still,it seems impossible to have too many bucks,Ive never heard of a herd that is like that.People keep saying how would it benefit the herd,and I keep asking,how would it hurt. Also,if we closed deer season,wouldnt it actually hurt mature buck populations,at least in unit L type areas with runaway doe populations,wouldnt they eventually eat themselves out of house and home? not if we closed hunting on bucks only. it would actually help balance doe populations because it world force hunters who never or rarely take a doe to do so for meat. Or guys like you Rb could just shoot some does to help manage the herd rather than question twra and others.It is funny how you admit that you never shoot does then talk about herd health and making the state better.hunters like you don't help manage at all.you guys take and then want more and try to tell others what to shoot.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1975772 - 06/28/10 10:54 AM
Re: Can someone tell me........
[Re: Football Hunter]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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Football Hunter and Redblood -
Closing off the hunting of bucks would be a very bad management move that, in my opinion, would do more harm than good. First and foremost in this argument is sheer numbers of deer that would NOT get killed. As a general rule of thumb, to keep a population stable (which is what we need to do in most of Tennessee), about a one-third of the deer must die each year. For the past few years we have been estimating (guessing) our deer herd to be about 700,000 - 750,000 animals. Now keep in mind, we've been killing between 160,000 - 180,000 deer each year. In literal terms, this makes "hunter harvest" the leading cause of death for deer in Tennessee. When hunter harvest is added to natural mortality, road-kill, poaching, non-compliance, and wounding loss, we can very much see where about one-third of our deer population dies each year allowing us to keep the population stable. By eliminting the buck harvest all together, we're looking at about 90,000 bucks that would not get killed. This would be a huge burden on the habitat to support the extra mouths to feed and would not be a "no harm" situation.
Also, I think that regulation would be extremely unpopular and I believe we would see a very significant drop in numbers of deer hunters (especially for that year). This would result in less does getting killing, compunding the above mentioned problem. I agree there would be a lot of "excited" hunters two years after that move, however, I think the damage would already be done and we'd then be striving to fix our mistake.
In short, that's how it would hurt.
_________________________
If given the choice between education and regulation, I'll choose education every time.
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