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#1972507 - 06/25/10 09:51 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: encore06]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Carl
If they broke the 5-year lease, I would take them to small claim court and make them pay for the land improvements by your club, which was done in the anticipation of enjoying those improvements.


Nope. That was my first thought, but in the lease agreement there is a catch-all disclaimer sentence that basically states that Riveroak retains the reight to terminate leases at any time for any reason.

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#1972515 - 06/25/10 09:56 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: Football Hunter]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: Football Hunter
maybe you can get it cheaper


They set the minimum bid at $10/acre, so I'd be getting it no cheaper for sure. Anyway, if you guys saw the food plots we had in and the number of big deer we were starting to see after 4 years of laying off the bucks and nailing the does, you'd know this place will go to somebody with lots of $$ and they will be walking into a hunting gold mine.

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#1972522 - 06/25/10 10:05 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: Boone 58]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: camoman270
Everyone should boycott such liars. This is exactly the kind of people NO-ONE should want or expect to do business with. sounds like someone in the decision making process decided to beat you guys out of your hard work to profit from it. That is sorry, and repercussions usually follow. Hopefully this backfires on them.


Exactly the point. This is why I posted this here - my thought is that they probably don't think screwing a few hunters will have any consequences. Hopefully they'll soon realize they pissed off the wrong guy. I hope ya'll help me spread the word about them and hurt them where it counts: the wallet.

I also plan on sending a letter to Mississippi State University, whose funding the installation of a bunch of new food plots for them as part of some sort of study. Riveroak used this "study" as a lame explanation of why they terminated our lease early. I think MSU needs to know what kind of people they are dealing with and that said people are using MSU's name as part of a reason for yanking leases from the very people (hunters) that most of their studies are aiming to aid.

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#1972523 - 06/25/10 10:06 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: BSK]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Where are the Riveroak properties?


They have land all over the place...most of it was former Westvaco/Champion/IP property. The lease we had was on Sain Rd. just south of Bolivar.

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#1972534 - 06/25/10 10:12 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: KENBOB10]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
 Originally Posted By: KENBOB10
 Originally Posted By: Andy S.
 Originally Posted By: BSK
Where are the Riveroak properties?


West TN and Western KY are where "most" of their "available" leases are.

There office is in Collierville, TN.

http://www.riveroaktimberlands.com/site/index.php

FWIW, I actually laughed when I saw the "starting price" for their "pine leases" in West TN was $10/acre. Good luck with that!


The sad thing is that somebody will pay that.


Somebody will pay that when they see the food plots that they have now (ours combined with some installed funded by MSU). The place looks awesome, and we were seeing a lot of really big deer...had been laying off the bucks for the first four years we had the lease and killing mostly does. Now, somebody else will reap the benefits of our management program. It really is a great property; the neighboring properties are managing in some capacity too - I think there was something like 1600 acres there that was being managed in some shape or form...makes me sick to lose it after all the hard work we put into it. All based on mis-guided trust in a bunch of dirt bags.

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#1972535 - 06/25/10 10:13 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: Andy S.]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
What's up Andy? Jason Sholtz here...long time no see!
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#1972561 - 06/25/10 10:39 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: jsholtz]
jsholtz
Spike


Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville

Offline
This is a series of emails between me and Riveroak's forrester, Paul Glissen:

Mr. Glissen,

That all sounds great, but that still doesn't make me feel any better about potentially going into a lease agreement with a company that is OK with lying to it's lessees and breaking it's agreements with no cause. We had a written agreement similar to what is on your site, only it was 5 years instead of 3 years - Riveroak chose to break that agreement a year early (the $10/acre we had agreed upon for the upcoming year obviously wasn't enough - sounds like greed to me). Is there any reason to believe that Riveroak's word is worth any more now than it was in regard to our lease (which amounted to nothing)? The LEAST Riveroak could have done is allowed us to finish our 5 year lease agreement and tell us a year in advance that this was going to happen following the expiration of our lease agreement. Doesn't seem that difficult to me. Breaking lease agreements for no good reason after telling your lessees you "don't do that sort of thing", all the while allowing them to continue to spend time and money to improve your property is not providing your hunting clubs with a "valuable service", it's screwing your lessees.

I know about the improvements you made on our lease, but the fact of the matter is, the biggest and best looking fields that Riveroak is pimping out are the ones that our club had created under the pretense that our lease wouldn't be pulled from under us, which was a blatant lie and is exactly what is going on here. Riveroak is selling our hard work and hard earned money to the highest bidder, which I know is just business to you (or at least to your bosses), but's bad karma to [censored] on good lessees like that.

At any rate, neither you nor your website gives me any further confidence that Riveroak isn't run by a bunch of liars and cheats (at the upper management level at the very least), so we won't be bidding at all. In addition, I plan on spreading the word to every single hunter I know (or anyone else that might be interested) that they should enter into a "contract" with Riveroak with great caution and put the value of hot air to any word that comes out of anyone associated with Riveroak. Also, I plan on contacting anyone and everyone I can associated with Mississippi State University to inform them (backed by the letter I've attached) that Riveroak has used/is using a program they are funding as an excuse for early termination of lease agreements, as well as the blatant lies told to us in the year leading up to the decision to terminate our lease agreement.

Sincerely,

Jason Sholtz






Mr Sholtz

I apologize for just know getting back with you. I was in the field all last week.
Your first concern regarding the three year lease is addressed in our new lease that will be on our website on Wesnesday.

After the three year contract is up, the current hunting club will have last right of refusal on the lease. In order to determine the initial value of our improved leases we are having a staight forward sealed bid this year, meaning the highest bidder will receive the lease.

Riveroak has invested many thousands of dollars into the 1514 property within the past year, involving dozer work, fertilizer costs, seed cost, and planting costs. As you know it is expensive to plant and maintain foodplots and alot of hunters don't have the time to plant or take care of them. We are trying to provide that service to our hunting clubs in order to increase the quality of hunting on our properties. We are not trying to be be greedy but we are trying to provide our hunting clubs with a valuable service.

Paul B. Glissen II
Riveroaks Timberland Mgmt.
http://www.riveroaktimberlands.com






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Riveroak Hunting Leases
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:25:47 -0500


I copied the following from your site:



· Lease contracts will be for a period of 3 consecutive years for exclusive hunting and fishing privileges.

We had a 5 year agreement with you company, which you decided to terminate one year early. What assurance do we have that you won’t break this 3 year agreement?

· Liability insurance will be provided by RiverOak Timberlands Mgt. as part of the lease.

· Lease payments must be made annually.

· Leases will begin on July 1, 2010 and continue until June 30, 2013.

· When leases expire they will be re-bid, however the current leaseholder will retain last right of refusal.

Again, we previously had a last right of refusal agreement with your company. Does that still apply? Re: when all bids come in, do we have the option to match the highest bid and retain the hunting rights?

· Leasors are required to abide by all Federal, State and Local game and fish regulations.

· Foodplots on leases Helfrich 2,3,4,5,6; Trigg West 2,3,4; 1514 South, 1538,1564,1592,1595,1598 and 1600 will be maintained be RiverOak Timberlands Mgt.

Our club put a ton of work and thousands of dollars into our lease on Sain Rd. under many of the pretense agreements you have outlined on your site (see above). We also operated under the pretense that our lease would not be yanked from under us (we were told several times by several people in your company “don’t worry, we don’t do that”…”that” being prematurely terminate leases without cause. So, we basically pissed away about $1500 last year because we were told that we would be able to retain the lease for as long as we were willing to pay the asking price…and we trusted RiverOaks. As it turned out, we were lied to on all accounts. So, in the future, what assurance do we have that Riveroaks won’t get the urge to be greedy again and break our lease agreement to try and squeeze more money out of leasors who have busted their asses, harvested does almost exclusively (seems someone else will be reaping the benefits of that misguided policy), and spent a whole lot of money trying to be good stewards and take care of your property?





Sincerely,





Jason Sholtz




Subject: Riveroak Hunting Leases



Hello Everybody,



I hope you are all doing well. As some of you are already aware, RiverOak has approximately 30 hunting leases that will be available this season in Western Tennessee and Western Kentucky. Some of these leases have been improved, and have food plots and wildlife habitat management plans in place. Below is a link to the RiverOak website, where you will find information about the leases, and the bidding process. Let me know if you have any questions.



Thanks,



Paul B. Glissen II
Riveroaks Timberland Mgmt.

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#1972579 - 06/25/10 10:58 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: jsholtz]
BMan
14 Point


Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 8907
Loc: Middle TN

Offline
You have until June 30. I'd wipe out the food plots I put in.
_________________________
Rules are for people who lose fights.

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#1972614 - 06/25/10 11:37 AM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: jsholtz]
Wes Parrish
16 Point


Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16937
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN

Offline
 Originally Posted By: jsholtz
This is a series of emails between me and Riveroak's forrester, Paul Glissen:

Mr. Glissen,

That all sounds great, but that still doesn't make me feel any better about potentially going into a lease agreement with a company that is OK with lying to it's lessees and breaking it's agreements with no cause. We had a written agreement similar to what is on your site, only it was 5 years instead of 3 years - Riveroak chose to break that agreement a year early (the $10/acre we had agreed upon for the upcoming year obviously wasn't enough - sounds like greed to me). Is there any reason to believe that Riveroak's word is worth any more now than it was in regard to our lease (which amounted to nothing)? The LEAST Riveroak could have done is allowed us to finish our 5 year lease agreement and tell us a year in advance that this was going to happen following the expiration of our lease agreement. Doesn't seem that difficult to me. Breaking lease agreements for no good reason after telling your lessees you "don't do that sort of thing", all the while allowing them to continue to spend time and money to improve your property is not providing your hunting clubs with a "valuable service", it's screwing your lessees.

I know about the improvements you made on our lease, but the fact of the matter is, the biggest and best looking fields that Riveroak is pimping out are the ones that our club had created under the pretense that our lease wouldn't be pulled from under us, which was a blatant lie and is exactly what is going on here. Riveroak is selling our hard work and hard earned money to the highest bidder, which I know is just business to you (or at least to your bosses), but's bad karma to [censored] on good lessees like that.

At any rate, neither you nor your website gives me any further confidence that Riveroak isn't run by a bunch of liars and cheats (at the upper management level at the very least), so we won't be bidding at all. In addition, I plan on spreading the word to every single hunter I know (or anyone else that might be interested) that they should enter into a "contract" with Riveroak with great caution and put the value of hot air to any word that comes out of anyone associated with Riveroak. Also, I plan on contacting anyone and everyone I can associated with Mississippi State University to inform them (backed by the letter I've attached) that Riveroak has used/is using a program they are funding as an excuse for early termination of lease agreements, as well as the blatant lies told to us in the year leading up to the decision to terminate our lease agreement.

Sincerely,

Jason Sholtz






Mr Sholtz

I apologize for just know getting back with you. I was in the field all last week.
Your first concern regarding the three year lease is addressed in our new lease that will be on our website on Wesnesday.

After the three year contract is up, the current hunting club will have last right of refusal on the lease. In order to determine the initial value of our improved leases we are having a staight forward sealed bid this year, meaning the highest bidder will receive the lease.

Riveroak has invested many thousands of dollars into the 1514 property within the past year, involving dozer work, fertilizer costs, seed cost, and planting costs. As you know it is expensive to plant and maintain foodplots and alot of hunters don't have the time to plant or take care of them. We are trying to provide that service to our hunting clubs in order to increase the quality of hunting on our properties. We are not trying to be be greedy but we are trying to provide our hunting clubs with a valuable service.

Paul B. Glissen II
Riveroaks Timberland Mgmt.
http://www.riveroaktimberlands.com






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Riveroak Hunting Leases
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:25:47 -0500


I copied the following from your site:



· Lease contracts will be for a period of 3 consecutive years for exclusive hunting and fishing privileges.

We had a 5 year agreement with you company, which you decided to terminate one year early. What assurance do we have that you won’t break this 3 year agreement?

· Liability insurance will be provided by RiverOak Timberlands Mgt. as part of the lease.

· Lease payments must be made annually.

· Leases will begin on July 1, 2010 and continue until June 30, 2013.

· When leases expire they will be re-bid, however the current leaseholder will retain last right of refusal.

Again, we previously had a last right of refusal agreement with your company. Does that still apply? Re: when all bids come in, do we have the option to match the highest bid and retain the hunting rights?

· Leasors are required to abide by all Federal, State and Local game and fish regulations.

· Foodplots on leases Helfrich 2,3,4,5,6; Trigg West 2,3,4; 1514 South, 1538,1564,1592,1595,1598 and 1600 will be maintained be RiverOak Timberlands Mgt.

Our club put a ton of work and thousands of dollars into our lease on Sain Rd. under many of the pretense agreements you have outlined on your site (see above). We also operated under the pretense that our lease would not be yanked from under us (we were told several times by several people in your company “don’t worry, we don’t do that”…”that” being prematurely terminate leases without cause. So, we basically pissed away about $1500 last year because we were told that we would be able to retain the lease for as long as we were willing to pay the asking price…and we trusted RiverOaks. As it turned out, we were lied to on all accounts. So, in the future, what assurance do we have that Riveroaks won’t get the urge to be greedy again and break our lease agreement to try and squeeze more money out of leasors who have busted their asses, harvested does almost exclusively (seems someone else will be reaping the benefits of that misguided policy), and spent a whole lot of money trying to be good stewards and take care of your property?





Sincerely,





Jason Sholtz




Subject: Riveroak Hunting Leases



Hello Everybody,



I hope you are all doing well. As some of you are already aware, RiverOak has approximately 30 hunting leases that will be available this season in Western Tennessee and Western Kentucky. Some of these leases have been improved, and have food plots and wildlife habitat management plans in place. Below is a link to the RiverOak website, where you will find information about the leases, and the bidding process. Let me know if you have any questions.



Thanks,



Paul B. Glissen II
Riveroaks Timberland Mgmt.


It is my hope that this exchange will be read as part of the opening statements at the next Southeast Deer Study Group Meeting.

I particularly would like to hear the response of such icons as Dr. Harry Jacobson et al. And if things are much as stated above, Mississippi State University should be both appalled and ashamed with some of its graduates and people currently involved in this "project".

This could also make for an excellent "Shoot From the Hip" Session labeled such as
Hunting Lease Ethics: Greed vs. Fair Profit.

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#1972665 - 06/25/10 12:32 PM Re: Warning about bad lease experience [Re: jsholtz]
Andy S.
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point


Registered: 07/26/99
Posts: 7182
Loc: Atoka, TN

Offline
Hey Jason, its been a while. I hate to hear all this bad news about the lease etc. To prevent hijacking this thread with our BS, shoot me a PM and we will catch up that way. ;\)
_________________________
Andy S.

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