#1970351 - 06/23/10 03:54 PM
Warning about bad lease experience
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jsholtz
Spike
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 35
Loc: Collierville
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I wanted to recount this story for all of you to read, so that in the case you are considering going into contract with Riveroak Timberlands, you may want to reconsider:
The club I was in charge of this past year was leasing from Riveroak Timberlands. They recently sent us a letter informing us they were basically terminating our lease and putting it up for open bid. We had a 5 year lease agreement with them: our lease was scheduled to go up every year 10% until it reached $10/acre for the 5th year. We were to have last right of refusal. Not only did Riveroak choose to break this agreement a year early without cause, but they lied to us about what they were planning to do. Last summer, they started doing various improvements to some of their properties (specifically, the one across the street from us) - thinning pines, putting in some food plots, etc. I saw this going on, and my immediate thought was that something weird was going on; either they were the best lessor in the world for the club across the street, or they were about to yank their lease. I called multiple employees of Riveroak and inquired about what was going on. I expressed my concern about losing the lease and inquired as to what they were planning on doing. I told them that we didn't want to spend the roughly $1500 we were planning on spending on further improvements to food plots that we had already installed if we were about to lose the lease. Their response, uniformally, was that "oh no, we don't do that sort of thing (yank leases)! You'll have the lease rights as long as you want them." So, we went ahead and spent the money and time on redoing the food plots. A couple months after hunting season was over, we get the letter explaining that they are terminating our lease agreement a year early and bidding our lease off in a greedy effort to "increase revenues".
In a nut shell: Riveroak is run by a bunch of liars. They allowed us to believe we had a 5 year agreement with them that they had no intention of breaking early and that we would have a long term agreement if we wanted it. They not only didn't warn us of their plans to yank our lease so that we wouldn't be pissing away our hard work, time, and money on their property, but they encouraged us to add as many food plots as we wanted (in designated areas). They screwed us our of a lot of time and money under a lot of false pretenses.
So, I'm sure many of you have seen their adds in the paper about bidding on their leases - be careful about trusting these people. A lot of what they're pimping out is the hard work, time, and money of their former lessees. The lease agreements they describe on their website are EXACTLY what we had agreed to with the exception that ours was a 5 year agreement compared to the current 3 year agreement. Do not trust Riveroak Timberlands!!
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#1970354 - 06/23/10 04:07 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: jsholtz]
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AlabamaSwamper
12 Point
Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 5024
Loc: Southern Wayne CO and NW Alaba...
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What is going to be funny is when all these leases bid under what you are paying now. Saw it happen in another state. Folks leasing it got it for $2 less an acre than they did the year before.
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#1970375 - 06/23/10 04:32 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: AlabamaSwamper]
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encore06
14 Point
Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 9365
Loc: Harrogate, TN
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If they broke the 5-year lease, I would take them to small claim court and make them pay for the land improvements by your club, which was done in the anticipation of enjoying those improvements.
_________________________
God Bless, Carl
Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
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#1970383 - 06/23/10 04:46 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: encore06]
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jb3
10 Point
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 3314
Loc: Burns, TN
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If you have all this in writing, seems they would owe something to you. Makes one think about signing a long-term lease with an owner and not have any form of a early opt-out.
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#1970386 - 06/23/10 04:48 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: encore06]
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lung-buster
8 Point
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 1849
Loc: Southern Middle Tn
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If they broke the 5-year lease, I would take them to small claim court and make them pay for the land improvements by your club, which was done in the anticipation of enjoying those improvements.
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#1970431 - 06/23/10 06:06 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: jsholtz]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16993
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Jsholtz,
Sorry to hear of your bad experience with Riveroak Timberlands.
But if Riveroak is doing as you say, they are helping lease prices to go down, not up, and you may ultimately benefit in future years (not that it means much to you today).
I've been saying everything works on the law of supply & demand. The acres available for leasing have been increasing, the number of hunters decreasing. And this is widespread across many states. Add to this the fact that public WMA's have been providing steadily improving deer-hunting opportunities.
At some point, it becomes cheaper to buy land than to lease it. At other points, it makes more sense to just spend less money hunting great public land in some other states (if not just here in TN). But rest assured, the law of supply & demand will sort out the good from the bad, or maybe in this case, the ugly.
What is going to be funny is when all these leases bid under what you are paying now.
Beyond "funny", that is probably what will happen.
Even funnier, they may find no takers at all.
Won't surprise me to see these particular tracts change ownerhip (or at least who's is managing the leasing) in the near future. Give it a year or two and see if the same tracts aren't being leased for a fraction of what they were.
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#1970439 - 06/23/10 06:27 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16993
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Let me add a little more about the "law of supply & demand".
Most of the timber-company land that once offered essentially "free" public hunting opportunities has not disappeared. MOST of it is still offering hunting opportunities, either because hunters have bought it (thus removing themselves as candidates to lease other timberlands), or it's available as hunting leases. It hasn't all gone into housing developments, albeit in certain places that has been the case.
Once many people "got wind" there was easy money to be made in leasing hunting rights, many small landowners began leasing their land, too. This isn't just a case of big timber companies doing all the leasing to hunters.
Another thing that has actually REDUCED the demand for leasing hunting land is the continued expansion of the deer herd. Many parts of many TN counties had relatively few deer just a few years ago, but today, they have plenty, and often people complaining about the deer eating their gardens and crops.
Deer herd expanding faster than new hunters coming along.
Old hunters dying out. Many small land owners who don't hunt now not minding just giving hunting rights to people they trust; others eager to lease out their 20 to 200 acres to hunters they trust.
And that's really a big part of this equation: Trust.
If people trust you, you can find good places to hunt, often at no cost. Likewise, if you're a landowner whom no one trusts, you'll be lucky to find anyone to even give you the going market rate to hunt your land, much less a premium over market rate.
And market rate is going down.
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#1970554 - 06/23/10 08:08 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: ]
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Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point
Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 10954
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee
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If they broke the 5-year lease, I would take them to small claim court and make them pay for the land improvements by your club, which was done in the anticipation of enjoying those improvements. ditto
_________________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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#1970576 - 06/23/10 08:18 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: Beekeeper]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24565
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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maybe you can get it cheaper
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1970696 - 06/23/10 09:06 PM
Re: Warning about bad lease experience
[Re: jsholtz]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13540
Loc: Food Plot
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Everyone should boycott such liars. This is exactly the kind of people NO-ONE should want or expect to do business with. sounds like someone in the decision making process decided to beat you guys out of your hard work to profit from it. That is sorry, and repercussions usually follow. Hopefully this backfires on them.
_________________________
Romans 10:9-13
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