I guess you dont hunt near any of the timber cuts on Chaney,seems like I remember you posting pics of your stand near a bean field last year.

They probably shouldn't let hunters use rifles with scopes.......

In Bottom Hunters defense, there is nothing like hunting the deep
woods away from everything. I used to in the "old days". There is
something about the remote hardwoods on a clear and frosty
morning during the rut, that is almost magical.

In Bottom Hunters defense, there is nothing like hunting the deep
woods away from everything. I used to in the "old days". There is
something about the remote hardwoods on a clear and frosty
morning during the rut, that is almost magical.

In Bottom Hunters defense, there is nothing like hunting the deep
woods away from everything. I used to in the "old days". There is
something about the remote hardwoods on a clear and frosty
morning during the rut, that is almost magical.

Before I started managing my place, it was all deep hardwoods. There is something to say for that type of experience.

But the hunting is so much more enjoyable and successful post-management...

I understand this way of thinking simply because man feels the need to have his hand in everything and it makes you feel better to think that YOU had a hand in not only your success as a hunter, but also in the success of the deer herd. If that makes you feel better, then feel free.

My point was very simple, even though it got somewhat hijacked......Sitting in an undisturbed stretch of bottomland where you never see, hear or find any sign (footprints, trash)of another human being and watch as nature goes about it's normal routine of surviving, is truly an exciting thing to me and in my opinion, that kind of hunting is what it's all about. At least to me.

BH

Give me a couple thousand acres of heavily wooded land in west tn. and five years to 'get it in shape" and you might be surprised what will come off of it....


seems like you need to make up your mind

Nothing is more rewarding than hitting the ground on a totally strange chunck of land and having a set time (maybe 7-10) days and start from zero and then kill a good deer. This is where its at for me.

For me, that's the definition of a "good hunter." If you can pull that off--7-10 days on new ground and kill a good deer--you're a good hunter.

Unfortunately, I don't think I could do that consistently, and that's why I don't consider myself a good hunter. Above average maybe, but not "good."

Thats what I lke about it, makes you have to LEARN every time you go in the woods, no relying on past knowledge to save the day.

OK, even though I realize this post is intended to produce acrimonious debate, I'll bite...

This is all part of the age-old debate about "how much management is too much management." Management intensity is a sliding scale, with no human intervention at all at one end of the scale and the most intense management possible--including artificial insemination, breeder animals, etc.--at the other.

Every hunter will put the point of "too much management" at a different point along that sliding scale. A few will feel that anything done with the intent to aid deer or alter their behavior or even herd structure is too much management. Others will feel fairly intense manipulation of the habitat and deer population is perfectly acceptable, including high-fences, large-scale habitat alterations, supplemental feeding, removal of management bucks, etc. However, most hunters will fall somewhere in between those two extremes.

How much management is too much management is a personal opinion, and sometimes hard to define, but generally "you know it when you see it."

And I live on "past knowledge"!

Give me a couple thousand acres of heavily wooded land in west tn. and five years to 'get it in shape" and you might be surprised what will come off of it....


seems like you need to make up your mind

BH you just love to stir it up ....doncha!

Where do you read in that post that I said anything about putting in crops, foodplots or anything like that?

That's because it refers to taking out deer, certain deer and letting others walk.....it has nothing to do with altering the landscape at all, which is what this thread is about.

managing whitetails , IMO, does not mean foodplots, crop fields or controlling anything more than what gets killed and what human access is granted......you can use the word management if you feel that NOT shooting certain deer and shooting others is management, but I prefer to call it "selectiveness".

BH,

It's absolutely true that management doesn't require alteration of the habitat. Even QDM refers specifically to what deer are or are not harvested. It's a harvest strategy.

However, from the earlier thread, "a couple thousand acres of heavily wooded land" isn't going to produce much if you don't alter the habitat. Expansive mature hardwoods isn't very good deer habitat.

BSK,

I sincerely appreciate your knowledge and your opinions. I have always been someone that believed that nature is it's own best manager. i also believe that deer can be "FED to greatness", but given proper time to age and be left alone , they too can reach reasonable potential on their own.

Again, my point is that I love to hunt dense timber near swamps and "less traveled by man" areas. To me, that is what it's all about. I guess my opinions offend some people because they think that i am putting what they do down and that could not be any further from the truth.

I will say that planting foodplots to attract deer to you is basically like chumming for fish, IMO......nothing wrong with it, but alot easier than actually fishing structures and landscape where you expect fish to be.....

Again, foodplot hunting and everything that surrounds it has it's place and is perfectly legal in every respect, but for me, I'd rather sit down in the Bottoms and plot my next strategy to succeed and not what my next foodplot will contain.....but, hey, that's just me.

No offense intended to anyone.....

I will say that planting foodplots to attract deer to you is basically like chumming for fish, IMO......nothing wrong with it, but alot easier than actually fishing structures and landscape where you expect fish to be.....


BH

Bazingga!

Bazingga, congratulations you have fallen for one of my latest pranks, lol

You're not offending me at all.

But I wasn't referring to making food plots in that expansive area of hypothetical hardwoods. Now food plots can be a powerful management tool, but in my opinion they are a tad over-rated.

I was thinking in the lines of thinning patches of that timber to allow sunlight to reach the ground and produce whatever natural food sources the area can grow. A few small scattered heavier cuts would also be useful, simply to maximize the natural food sources those bottomland soils could grow.

But doing absolutely nothing to the habitat is perfectly fine with me too. As long as the hunters understand the limitations that would place on management results--a much lower deer density hence fewer total mature bucks--then no habitat changes at all is fine with me.

That's why the first question I always ask a prospective new client is, "What kind of a hunting experience do you want?" What type of hunting experience they want will drive the management plan, whether that's an unaltered "wilderness" experience, or as close to a Midwestern agricultural experience as can be produced (massive habitat alterations).

Either one, or anything in between, is fine with me, as long as the hunters understand the limitations in herd density and performance minimal habitat alterations will produce. It's all a trade-off.

That may be a fairly correct analogy,...another similarity between the two is that altho you may get more "fish" in general by chumming them...on average the "better fish" will always come from putting in the time and locating the desired structures...

BSK....

What response do you normally get when you ask "what kind of hunting experience do you want to get.....?"

Would you say that the most common answer is somewhat of a microcosm of today's hunting society?

"I want hunting like I see on the TV hunting shows."

Your joking, Right? I have NEVER heard ANYONE talk like that. Especially people that have land and are investing in management plans. The ones I have talked with are very realistic. That is very dissapointing

It's becoming the most common response I get. More and more hunters are being fooled into believing these hunting shows are reality.

Go to a deer/habitat management seminar these days and see who hunters really want to hear speak; a wildlife scientist presenting real comparitively tested information--true facts--or a "hunting celebrity" who doesn't know squat about deer management. The "hunting celebrity" talk will be packed.

Seeing another hunter in the woods where i am spoils my hunt. The hunter's presence may or may not have any affect on the deer movement, but it ruins my mindset.......that's just the way I am.

I can completely understand that.

I agree.......

I'm with you BH.Land managment is not hunting.

I'm a hunter, not a farmer or a carpenter(shooting houses and so on.)

But, to each his own i guess.

slow down and watch the world go by and stop trying to hurry the process.

if you do the necessary work and learn your area, you can find the deer that you want to take and do so on his terms, not on your terms. it may take a little longer to wait him out, but I'd rather do that than try and draw him out to a food source.

But, I'm one of those that loves the scouting and the strategy as much, if not more, than the actual harvest.

It's all part of the game.....

BH

So,I guess,if there was a big soy bean field on,or next to Chaney,you wouldnt take advantage of that?

JM?

FH

So,I guess,if there was a big soy bean field on,or next to Chaney,you wouldnt take advantage of that?

JM?

FH

about 200 yards west, just guessing on the distance

BH,

I will add though, that I never remember using an aerial photo or a map to aid me in finding and killing a deer. Not because I don't know how to use them, but because I LOVE to scout.

One of the most efficient ways to scout is with a topo and aerial map. I spend several hours a year scouting with my boots on but maps help save time so I can scout the woods more.