#1952685 - 06/07/10 10:25 PM
CROSS CREEKS NWR
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FOOTER
8 Point
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 1763
Loc: HARDEMAN COUNTY
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Anyone have any info on deer hunting this refuge?
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#1952821 - 06/08/10 06:28 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: FOOTER]
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DUCK37101
"Link" Police
16 Point
Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 18867
Loc: McEwen, TN.
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http://www.fws.gov/crosscreeks/
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You Can't Take It With You.....So Don't Go.
IN GOD WE TRUST!
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- Ted Kennedy
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#1952959 - 06/08/10 09:37 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: FOOTER]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Anyone have any info on deer hunting this refuge? Can be relatively dangerous, as it's mostly flat marshland similar to the Duck River Bottoms.
The rule that you must kill a doe to earn a buck tag causes (maybe I should encourages) many to take unsafe shots they otherwise wouldn't. IMO, this is not only a terrible rule for a weekend rifle hunt, but at this point totally unnecessary.
Last year, most hunters on the gun hunts not only didn't kill a doe, but they didn't even see one. The earn-a-buck-tag deal has been in effect for so many years now that not only have the antlerless deer become more nocturnal compared to most places, but the deer population is a fraction what it was a few years ago. Of course, the goal was to reduce the deer population. Since that goal has long been achieved, it would now seem far better to have a system in place that doesn't severely penalize the honest hunters while it rewards the dishonest ones.
I'm not opposed to "earn-a-buck" programs when necessary, just no longer needed at Cross Creeks (nor the Duck River Bottoms), and is a very questionable practice anywhere on a public-land weekend quota hunt due to safety concerns.
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#1952960 - 06/08/10 09:44 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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I should add that part of the safety concern is the fact there are few trees suitable for climbing on most of Cross Creeks, meaning that most hunters are hunting at ground level, walking around trying to jump a doe.
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#1953277 - 06/08/10 01:39 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: DUCK37101]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25338
Loc: TN
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http://www.fws.gov/crosscreeks/ The hunting info on their page is last years regs. I have been watching for them to update it, but hasnt happened yet.
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#1953331 - 06/08/10 02:31 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Winchester]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Winchester, you can be assured they still have the "earn-a-buck" program in place for 2010.
Their emphasis is on waterfowl, to the point I think they see deer and deer hunters as a royal pain, but one that is providing them a service in keeping the deer herd in check. A few years ago the deer were about to totally destroy their crops planted for waterfowl, thus the deer hunts started, IMO more to help the waterfowl than to offer a new hunting opportunity.
Not meaning for this to come across too derogatory towards refuge personnel (as all I've met have been really nice people -- one even "literally" pulled me out of the mud a few years ago in the Duck River Bottoms ), but just as a matter of fact, the NWR situation is very unlike a TWRA WMA where overall hunter satisfaction is high on the priority list. My opinion is that if the deer hadn't been eating their waterfowl plantings, there would be no deer hunting at all on Cross Creeks (and many other waterfowl refuges, as I don't mean to be "picking" on CC --- Duck River Bottoms is a similar situation).
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#1953333 - 06/08/10 02:35 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Winchester]
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WRbowhunter
8 Point
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1469
Loc: collierville,tn
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Wow what a scary thought. Gun hunters walking around on public land with rifles on flat land trying to kill the first doe they see just for a chance at a buck. all within a weekend.Thank goodness the public land I hunt on is mostly bow only.
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#1953541 - 06/08/10 03:51 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: WRbowhunter]
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Spoonbillmallard
8 Point
Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 1027
Loc: TN
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Well I don't know what part of Cross Creeks yall are hunting but the place we always hunt has plenty of does and bucks. I have hunted this peice of Cross Creeks for 8 years now and have seen no real effect of 1 weekend gun hunt on the population of deer. I would sit there and see 30 deer every morning I went out there. And have killed a couple nice bucks down there.
But I do agree that the earn a buck program has made hunters more trigger happy. This past year there was quite a few shots taken across large fields which you know there isn't much of a chance of a good shot. But I don't see any way that the earn a buck program has hurt the deer population.
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If it flies it dies!!!
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#1956959 - 06/11/10 01:11 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Spoonbillmallard]
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FOOTER
8 Point
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 1763
Loc: HARDEMAN COUNTY
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Anyone else??
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#1957272 - 06/11/10 07:45 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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CULLBUCK 2
4 Point
Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 283
Loc: Bradley co. TN
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Anyone have any info on deer hunting this refuge? Can be relatively dangerous, as it's mostly flat marshland similar to the Duck River Bottoms. The rule that you must kill a doe to earn a buck tag causes (maybe I should encourages) many to take unsafe shots they otherwise wouldn't. IMO, this is not only a terrible rule for a weekend rifle hunt, but at this point totally unnecessary. So you hunted it last year ? Would you hunt it again Last year, most hunters on the gun hunts not only didn't kill a doe, but they didn't even see one. The earn-a-buck-tag deal has been in effect for so many years now that not only have the antlerless deer become more nocturnal compared to most places, but the deer population is a fraction what it was a few years ago. Of course, the goal was to reduce the deer population. Since that goal has long been achieved, it would now seem far better to have a system in place that doesn't severely penalize the honest hunters while it rewards the dishonest ones. I'm not opposed to "earn-a-buck" programs when necessary, just no longer needed at Cross Creeks (nor the Duck River Bottoms), and is a very questionable practice anywhere on a public-land weekend quota hunt due to safety concerns.
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#1957275 - 06/11/10 07:47 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: CULLBUCK 2]
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CULLBUCK 2
4 Point
Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 283
Loc: Bradley co. TN
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Sorry messed that up. Wes you say you hunted it last year ,do you plan to hunt it again ?
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#1957360 - 06/11/10 08:51 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: CULLBUCK 2]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Wes you say you hunted it last year, do you plan to hunt it again? Particularly considering that Cross Creeks is the closest public hunting land to both my house and private hunting land, I'm sure I will hunt it again at least at some point in the future.
Last year, on the first day of my quota gun hunt, I stayed on stand all day. At daybreak, I had a "nice" 2 1/2-yr-old buck pass within 30 yards, and he appeared to go bed in either some standing corn or a big patch of weeds. Not that I wanted to shoot that particular buck anyway, but just want to point out that it was illegal for me to shoot any buck, as this was an "antlerless only" hunt until and unless an antleress deer was killed. By 1P, that one buck had been the only deer I had seen.
I had two hunting partners drawn for that hunt with me, as well as another friend hunting nearby. One of my regular hunting partners was demotivated enough by the "antlerless only" rule, that he decided to just sleep in the first morning. After hearing about what the rest of us didn't see, he never even went hunting --- and he was a guy who had been there prior to the hunt weekend and already had his spot picked out.
As to the hunting partner who walked in with me, that one didn't see a single deer on the first morning, and relocated for the afternoon. In the last 15 minutes of legal shooting time, we both killed a doe. Due to all the mud and water, it was after 10P when we got out with our two "antlerless" deer. But at least we had "earned" our buck tags for the next day.
My friend hunting about a half mile away, if I remember correctly, did not see a deer all day either, until late afternoon, when he took a very long shot across a harvested bean field, killing a nice doe. He had about as much work getting his out, too, as he would mire up about a foot in the soft beanfield mud with each step (I think the deer was crossing the muddy beanfield when he started shooting at it).
The next day, neither my hunting partner nor my friend about a half mile away saw a deer. I saw a yearling buck and probably that same 2 1/2-yr-old buck ---- but I didn't see a doe.
Third day (3-day weekend hunt), I pretty much had the place to myself. But even I didn't see a deer, although I did finally just leave around 1P on Sunday. Had I not killed that doe late Friday afternoon, I probably wouldn't have been back the next day.
It's easy for some people to say they like an "earn-a-buck" program. There are times it makes sense. But right now at Cross Creeks, it makes less sense than the tits on a boar hog. It's mainly just rewarding the dishonest hunters while punishing the honest ones, as it is widely known that perhaps most of the "antlerless" deer checked in for "Cross Creek" were nothing more than an empty truck with a guy requesting a kill tag from the local check station (where the personnel don't come out to look, and never know there was actually no dead deer at all).
I enjoy hunting lots of different places for much the same reasons most people like to take vacations. I enjoy seeing and hearing the waterfowl at Cross Creeks, although sometimes they become more a nuisance. Just kinda frustrating to me that the closest public land I have the most convenient opportunity to hunt has this "antlerless only" rule should I draw a quota hunt there. The way many hunters "deal" with this is they go the first day, and if they don't kill a doe, they don't come back the 2nd day.
That said, most hunters will find the real opportunity to take a nice buck much better at any of a number of WMA's --- in large part because they don't have to kill a doe to earn a buck tag. Yet Cross Creeks remains a pretty place to me and a nice change of scenery, not to mention very convenient. But regarding public land, if I were driving in from Nashville towards Cross Creeks, I would never drive past Ft. Campbell.
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#1957363 - 06/11/10 08:55 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Spoonbillmallard]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Well I don't know what part of Cross Creeks yall are hunting but the place we always hunt has plenty of does and bucks. Where ever that is you're hunting, you'd best keep it a secret, because most hunters are having a much harder time finding a doe.
I was drawn for that very first hunt they had years ago, and there were deer all over the place. But in the subsequent two times I've been drawn, "antlerless" deer have been hard for me to find.
I have hunted this peice of Cross Creeks for 8 years now and have seen no real effect of 1 weekend gun hunt on the population of deer . . . . But I do agree that the earn a buck program has made hunters more trigger happy. By the way, there are 3 gun weekends there each year (one of which is juveniles only), and in years past there were four weekends. Maybe you've been luckier than I and been drawn for the 1st one each time? I'm sure the does are a little more numerous on the first gun hunt each fall, but relatively hard to find on the subsequent ones.
I also don't mean to come across as being "unappreciative", as I feel blessed to have many different public hunting opportunities within an hour's drive, which include WMA's in both Kentucky and Tennessee. Cross Creeks is just the closest to me, and ironically perhaps the one least needing an "earn a buck" program (although none do IMO).
And speaking of public hunting opportunities, there are few places in TN that don't have several TWRA-managed WMA's within an hours drive, many with "same as statewide" regs. We can debate hunting "opportunity" in many different ways, but being able to kill ANY deer of your choosing on most any day of the deer season can sometimes provide infinately more "opportunity" than a quota draw hunt on a particular WMA.
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#1957380 - 06/11/10 09:21 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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CULLBUCK 2
4 Point
Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 283
Loc: Bradley co. TN
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Thanks wes for your informative info. I wish i lived that close to LBL , fort campbell and cross creeks makes ol cleveland boy jealous lol .I agreee about FORT C , i hate to pass it up. I just knew i wasnt going to get drawn for LBL this year and thought i might try something new. Again thanks
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#1957447 - 06/11/10 10:11 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: CULLBUCK 2]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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I agreee about FORT C , i hate to pass it up. I just knew i wasnt going to get drawn for LBL this year and thought i might try something new. Again thanks That's a long way to drive from Bradley County. Have you considered some of the WMA's in eastern Middle TN (some of which are "same as statewide" regs, and some have several non-quota rifle hunts)?
The ones I'm thinking about in particular are Royal Blue, Big South Fork, and Catoosa. I'm hearing from more and more hunters that the quality of the hunting on some of these WMA's is much better than it used to be. Of course, in some ways you're blessed to have the vast Cherokee National Forest in your backyard. I know the deer population isn't very high there, but it's a unique experience where if you're willing and able to walk a little distance, you can have thousands of acres all to yourself. If it were in my backyard, it would get my presense for at least a weekend of deer hunting each year.
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#1957520 - 06/12/10 05:13 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Hawk
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 09/03/99
Posts: 6162
Loc: west tenn.
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Not sure if its the same manager at Cross Creek as Tenn. National but with that type of restrictions I would bet it is. Take for instance the muzzle loader hunt on Tn Nat. Open sights only. Maybe this manager does not realize older people and sight impaired people cannot hunt due such a rule. I suspect this manager likes to manage people rather than his resource and I bet he hunts with a flintlock and wears buckskins.
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#1957647 - 06/12/10 10:06 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Hawk]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Not sure if its the same manager at Cross Creek as Tenn. National but with that type of restrictions I would bet it is. Take for instance the muzzle loader hunt on Tn Nat. Open sights only. Maybe this manager does not realize older people and sight impaired people cannot hunt due such a rule. I suspect this manager likes to manage people rather than his resource and I bet he hunts with a flintlock and wears buckskins. Hawk,
They are not the same manager, but they do "work together" in having similar rules.
There has been deer hunting on the TN National (which includes Duck River Bottoms, Big Sandy, etc.) for decades. It wasn't until Cross Creeks started allowing deer hunting that things got really messed up for both (in terms of hunter satisfaction).
Prior to just a few years ago, Cross Creeks was a waterfowl refuge that didn't allow any deer hunting. From what I understand, the then refuge manager (has since retired) was very opposed to any hunting. He was kind of forced into starting the deer hunting for reasons stated below.
Also, just for your information, it was actually pressure or influence from the Bush administration that got hunting started on many federal refuges which had previously never allowed hunting. Of course, the current administration (per Dept. of the Interior) will likely end that same hunting within the next 3 years IMO. Do you remember the debacle about the goose hunting in the Duck River Bottoms where the anti-hunters stopped it? They're still around and now have someone who "feels their pain" in Washington.
Anyway, it's my understanding that the main reason the deer hunting began on Cross Creeks was because the deer were destroying the crops being planted for migratory waterfowl. It was not to give hunters more opportunity, but more to use hunters to solve their deer over-population. (This was not the case with TN National, as that refuge has had a long rich history of deer hunting.) At about that same time, the Duck River Bottoms had too many deer as well, and hunters simply weren't killing enough female deer to cut back the population. So the refuge managers of both places decided the "earn-a-buck" was an effective way of drastically increasing the doe harvest. To that end, it did work very well.
My opinion is that "earn-a-buck" might have been a good idea for one year, possibly two, but hasn't been necessary since, in large part because hunters have become more eager to harvest does and more interested in biologically sound deer management themselves. After all, it is mainly the hunters who have become the true deer managers, i.e. hunter-managers. Not to mention, most of the private property around all these refuges went from Unit A to Unit L at about this same time or soon thereafter. This is particularly noteworthy because many of the deer that were destroying the waterfowl crops may have had more of their range OFF the refuges than ON them.
Believe there have been several refuge managers come and go during the past few years --- and don't know what the current refuge management's thinking is on "hunter satisfaction". All the refuge people I've ever met have been very cordial and friendly, but it's been obvious their main interest (perhaps as it should be) is waterfowl. My opinion is that most have no personal interest in deer hunting, but are willing to tolerate it, particularly since is the easiest way to have the deer population kept in check.
Combined with several years of relatively high doe harvests and EHD, not just on these refuges but in the surrounding areas, the deer population has certainly been reduced to a fraction what it was a few years ago. I have no problem with fewer deer, as they're healthy deer. My only issue is with unnecessary rules that are now doing little more than rewarding dishonest hunters while punishing the honest ones.
A good friend of mine hunted on one of the refuges in 2008. On the very first morning of his quota rifle hunt, he had a beautiful 10-pt-buck check a scrape and spend over 5 minutes within 35 yards, as he sat in a ground blind watching. It wouldn't have been the largest buck he'd ever killed, but one he otherwise would have taken and had mounted. He let it walk. Hunting the rest of that day and the next, he never saw another deer. The difference in his story and many others coming off the refuges is that quite a few just kill the first deer that comes along, and if it's a buck, they go "check in" a fictitious doe, then later "legally" check in their buck. Then there are some who simply go check in a fictitious doe, whether they ever see a buck or not, they have "earned" their "buck tag".
Backing up a little, another friend of mine (who is wildlife biologist but not in any kind of law enforcement division) was drawn for one of the quota gun hunts the 2nd year of "earn-a-buck". His hunt was on the TN National refuge, and before the sun rose on the 1st morning, he had passed up two bucks he describes as larger antlered than anything he had ever killed. Both those bucks were killed a few minutes later by hunters who had not killed an antlerless deer first. Perhaps my friend could have quickly climbed down and tried to make a citizen's arrest, but keep in mind he was a long way from his truck, had no radio and no cell phone coverage. Those hunters loaded their bucks onto their boats and left, end of story, other than it was reported to the refuge, who really have neither the resources nor the will to do much about this common abuse of the "earn-a-buck" rule.
Keep in mind the refuge personnel don't check anything, as you simply take your harvested deer off the refuge and to a regular TWRA check station, where you tell the lady at the convenient store asks, "County or WMA?", . . . . "which WMA"? And you are then issued "proof" you've taken an antlerless deer on a refuge, which becomes your "buck tag". Meanwhile, refuge management may think they've had 50 antlerless deer taken on a particular refuge (based on the TWRA harvest data) when the real number might be closer to 20.
The "earn-a-buck" idea was originally thought up for use in hunting clubs and situations where the hunters had a long period of time to kill an antlerless deer in "earning" their buck tag. I don't believe it was ever intended for a weekend hunt on public land. Just my opinion, but one shared by most hunters who have participated in the "earn-a-buck" program on these refuges:
Why not simply have MORE firearms HUNTING, period, all hunts with very simple "either-sex" regs? Regarding adult hunters (since one of the three current gun hunts is juveniles only), simply adding one weekend would increase the deer hunting by 50% more. If fewer deer are desired, might the best answer simply be more hunting, rather than more government restrictions on that hunting?
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#1957650 - 06/12/10 10:12 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Hawk]
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LIL JOKER
14 Point
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 9114
Loc: tennessee
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there aint no deer at ft c
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#1957700 - 06/12/10 11:16 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: LIL JOKER]
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RAFI
10 Point
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 2552
Loc: Tn
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Hey wes, You say hunting was started at Cross Creek not for hunters but to use hunters to keep the deer from eating the crops for waterfowl.
Now you are saying the earn a buck is ruining the hunting on the place?If it was set up to keep the deer numbers in check then it seems to be working great if you can't see a doe on the hunt.
i uderstand the place could be managed for trophy bucks but from what you said thats not thier goal.
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#1957713 - 06/12/10 11:33 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: RAFI]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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RAFI,
All I'm saying is (at this point) the rule has become but yet another unnecessary government restriction, effecting all hunters there, no matter what kind of deer they're wanting. Let's also keep in mind that "public" land really belongs to all of us (rather than the government). It OURS. This isn't about whether you're a "meat" hunter, a "buck" hunter, or a "trophy" hunter. Most of the dissatisfied are simply "deer" hunters who are unnecessarily burdened by an unnecessary rule.
Take for instance the muzzle loader hunt on Tn Nat. Open sights only. Maybe this manager does not realize older people and sight impaired people cannot hunt due such a rule. Not that'd I'd necessary have a problem with a special "primitive" weapons hunt purely for nostalgic purposes, but put this particular one within it's context.
This particular "muzzleloader" hunt on TN National disallows compound bows, yet allows modern inline muzzleloaders, so long as they don't have optical sights. Now if it's really all that important to keep decimating the does, why are more effective weapons not allowed on this hunt? Then why is there only two weekends of gun hunting, when the obvious answer to killing more deer is having more hunting?
I suspect this manager likes to manage people rather than his resource . . . . . You may be right, Hawk, although it's been my opinion that the focus has been so totally on waterfowl management, and simply just a lack of interest in either deer management or hunter satisfaction. I think a few years ago somebody suggested a "primative" weapons hunt on TN National, and the then refuge manager simply said, "Fine with me."
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#1957834 - 06/12/10 03:34 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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RAFI
10 Point
Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 2552
Loc: Tn
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Just because public land belongs to the public doesn't mean we have all rights to the land.there is plenty of public land that doesn't allow hunting at all.Deer hunting is not the only thing that public land is about.
I guess I see it as hunters are as much to blame as the ones making the rules.If hunters had shot more does when it was opened rather than hunting big bucks it might not have ended like it did.these guys who only shoot big bucks are thier own worst enemies.
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#1957864 - 06/12/10 04:23 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: RAFI]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Just because public land belongs to the public doesn't mean we have all rights to the land. . . . . Deer hunting is not the only thing that public land is about. I totally agree.
But in this case we're not talking about a city park or some high-security nuclear facility. This is a case of large tracts of uninhabitated marsh/river bottom land simply set aside for wildlife purposes, not to mention totally closed to any public entrance from mid-November until March of each year (because it's a migratory waterfowl refuge).
I guess I see it as hunters are as much to blame as the ones making the rules. If hunters had shot more does when it was opened rather than hunting big bucks it might not have ended like it did. these guys who only shoot big bucks are thier own worst enemies. To a small degree you have a point in the case of the Duck River Bottoms. But most hunters utilizing the Duck River Bottoms were just like most hunters everywhere, in that they were not holding out for a "big buck", but rather shooting ANY buck. In fact, much of that mindset to "mainly shoot bucks" was created by those very ones making the rules who had previously REGULATED nearly all deer hunting to be "buck only". How can we blame hunters for having a mindset not to shoot does, when for decades wildlife regulators help create that mindset by not allowing female deer to be legal game?
But today, following many years of wildlife agencies ALLOWING and even ENCOURAGING the harvest of antlerless deer, most hunters now have no problem harvesting antlerless deer, as the current harvest data will prove --- they don't need to be denied the opportunity of shooting a buck. We are now seeing entire states having a higher female than male deer harvest annually, and doing so WITHOUT any restrictive rules such as "earn-a-buck" and WITHOUT any antler restrictions --- they just have "either-sex" deer hunting with a higher bag limit on antlerless than antlered.
In the case of the Duck River Bottoms it was more a case of years of too little hunting that led to an over-population problem ---- not the hunters who were more than eager to come there to hunt.
But this thread started out regarding Cross Creeks, which DAY ONE began it's firearm deer hunting as "ANTLERLESS ONLY" , until and unless you come to possess an antlerless harvest tag indicating Cross Creeks as the location of harvest. How can you blame THAT deer over-population problem on any hunters? The problem was the refuge had never allowed any deer hunting.
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#1957964 - 06/12/10 07:47 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13564
Loc: Food Plot
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it was tough seeing deer last year...period for me at times.
_________________________
Romans 10:9-13 NRA lifetime Mem & Crockett Friends of NRA Hoyt Razor Tec CVA Accura V2 Nikon BM BDC 3x9x40 Winchester Mod 70 Weather SS 270 WSM Nikon Monarch 3x12x42SF Carpe Diem.
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#1957968 - 06/12/10 07:59 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Boone 58]
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birddog
12 Point
Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 6090
Loc: Seymour, TN
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Cross creek was a great place to hunt until the rifle hunts and the dang hogs. the hogs have destroyed that place.
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#1958154 - 06/12/10 11:51 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: birddog]
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landman
8 Point
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1464
Loc: TN & Western KY
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Can't remember when the gun hunts started at Cross Creek, but bow hunting has been going on for 15 years +
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#1958243 - 06/13/10 08:29 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: landman]
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A/M/G
TnDeer Old Timer
8 Point
Registered: 09/06/99
Posts: 1124
Loc: Drummonds, Tn
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Wes, I think Tn refuge, unless they changed it this year, no inlines are allowed on the primitive hunt. Side hammer open sights, long bow or recurve.
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Make them fly straight, airplanes and arrows.
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#1958256 - 06/13/10 09:02 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: A/M/G]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Wes, I think Tn refuge, unless they changed it this year, no inlines are allowed on the primitive hunt. Side hammer open sights, long bow or recurve. A/M/G, my bad. I think it has always been side hammer open sights (never allowing inlines). Just has seemed contridictory that on one hand they want to decimate the does by forcing rifle hunters to hunt "antlerless only", while on the other hand they allow a weekend of muzzleloader hunting (for which most hunters don't own a muzzleloader to the refuge manager's specific specifications, yet many could participate with a compound bow, also not allowed). Perhaps Hawk is correct.
Can't remember when the gun hunts started at Cross Creek, but bow hunting has been going on for 15 years + The gun hunting (at Cross Creeks) hasn't been going on but about half that long. However, I believe the bowhunting prior to the gun hunting was limited to a very small part of the refuge.
Cross creek was a great place to hunt until the rifle hunts and the dang hogs. the hogs have destroyed that place. When I was there last year scouting/hunting, I didn't see any sign of hogs myself, but have heard they've done some damage in certain areas. Actually think the feral hogs may have all been killed.
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#1958258 - 06/13/10 09:04 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: A/M/G]
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Hawk
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 09/03/99
Posts: 6162
Loc: west tenn.
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Wes, I think Tn refuge, unless they changed it this year, no inlines are allowed on the primitive hunt. Side hammer open sights, long bow or recurve.
As I stated earlier the Tennessee National Mgr. manager would rather manage people than the deer population.
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"Sometimes it's not enough to know what things mean, sometimes you have to know what things don't mean."
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#1958295 - 06/13/10 09:58 AM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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landman
8 Point
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1464
Loc: TN & Western KY
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Wes, I think Tn refuge, unless they changed it this year, no inlines are allowed on the primitive hunt. Side hammer open sights, long bow or recurve. A/M/G, my bad. I think it has always been side hammer open sights (never allowing inlines). Just has seemed contridictory that on one hand they want to decimate the does by forcing rifle hunters to hunt "antlerless only", while on the other hand they allow a weekend of muzzleloader hunting (for which most hunters don't own a muzzleloader to the refuge manager's specific specifications, yet many could participate with a compound bow, also not allowed). Perhaps Hawk is correct. Can't remember when the gun hunts started at Cross Creek, but bow hunting has been going on for 15 years + The gun hunting (at Cross Creeks) hasn't been going on but about half that long. However, I believe the bowhunting prior to the gun hunting was limited to a very small part of the refuge. Cross creek was a great place to hunt until the rifle hunts and the dang hogs. the hogs have destroyed that place. When I was there last year scouting/hunting, I didn't see any sign of hogs myself, but have heard they've done some damage in certain areas. Actually think the feral hogs may have all been killed. We own land that joins the Refuge, 1 mile of frontage, the Hogs are still there on both sides of the property lines.
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#1966487 - 06/20/10 11:55 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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CULLBUCK 2
4 Point
Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 283
Loc: Bradley co. TN
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The drive is about three and a half hours.Dont mind driving it at all to see deer. I understand what your saying , cherokee is a big place and ive hog hunted it a lot .I know a few guys that have killed big deer out of the mountains . The odds are more in your favor in your neck of the woods for a deer. If you want to see bear or hogs we got em , i dont care to hunt either .Guess i will keep on driving 24 west . I agreee about FORT C , i hate to pass it up. I just knew i wasnt going to get drawn for LBL this year and thought i might try something new. Again thanks That's a long way to drive from Bradley County. Have you considered some of the WMA's in eastern Middle TN (some of which are "same as statewide" regs, and some have several non-quota rifle hunts)? The ones I'm thinking about in particular are Royal Blue, Big South Fork, and Catoosa. I'm hearing from more and more hunters that the quality of the hunting on some of these WMA's is much better than it used to be. Of course, in some ways you're blessed to have the vast Cherokee National Forest in your backyard. I know the deer population isn't very high there, but it's a unique experience where if you're willing and able to walk a little distance, you can have thousands of acres all to yourself. If it were in my backyard, it would get my presense for at least a weekend of deer hunting each year.
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#1973095 - 06/25/10 07:37 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: WRbowhunter]
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Boone 58
16 Point
Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13564
Loc: Food Plot
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Are you assuming everyone who walks around trying to kill a doe is irresponsible? ludicrous.....Hunters have guns to take game, not to go around being dangerous? this sounds like some statement Peta or some other anti-hunting group would make? hunters are always armed with weapons, this in itself can make for dangerous situations..............only if people act like idiots. i dont remember any "idiot" situations last year in the entire season i hunted which is almost daily. Nor do i feel threatened to be in the woods because there are hunters wanting to kill deer I fail to understand this statement that it cause hunters to be dangerous or act irresponsible?
_________________________
Romans 10:9-13 NRA lifetime Mem & Crockett Friends of NRA Hoyt Razor Tec CVA Accura V2 Nikon BM BDC 3x9x40 Winchester Mod 70 Weather SS 270 WSM Nikon Monarch 3x12x42SF Carpe Diem.
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#1973175 - 06/25/10 08:49 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Boone 58]
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landman
8 Point
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1464
Loc: TN & Western KY
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The Gun hunts there on the northern side had gotten out of hand, with so much shooting(everyone trying to get their doe killed, plus some party hunting style of killing does) is the reason they have cut the number of hunters down on the north side, and split it into 2 units.
Also changed the bow hunting, you can no longer kill more than 1 buck with a bow during the season.
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#1973224 - 06/25/10 09:26 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Boone 58]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Are you assuming everyone who walks around trying to kill a doe is irresponsible? Absolutely not. Most hunters are safe, and hunting (as a sport) is actually safer than fishing.
I suspect you may be overlooking the context of this thread, as it is not about typical statewide hunting, regardless of private or public land.
. . . . i dont remember any "idiot" situations last year in the entire season i hunted which is almost daily. . . . . . In the context of this thread, the most opportunity anyone would have possibly had to experience the unsafe hunting situations referred would have been a single weekend. Obviously, we're talking about totally different situations.
I fail to understand this statement that it cause hunters to be dangerous or act irresponsible? The context of the danger stated has to do with a single weekend of annual hunting (at least only 1 weekend to any particular hunter), whereby a hunter must kill a doe to earn a buck permit, which is only valid on this same weekend.
In the case of Cross Creeks and the Duck River Bottoms, the area is mostly open and flat marsh land. These are places with almost as much water as dry ground, the kind of places where a centerfire rifle bullet can carry a long way. Worse, there are few climbable trees, and most shots are fired by hunters from ground level. And at ground level, in many places visibiltiy is limited to a fraction how far a rifle shot can carry. This is particularly true where standing corn is left in fields and where tall weeds and marsh grass are scattered all over the place.
Add to this a diverse group of hunters, all beyond eager to kill a doe, and few of them have any idea where any of them are hunting. Again, nearly all on the ground, whereas in most TN deer hunting situations, most hunters are in elevated stands shooting down instead of across the landscape.
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#1973266 - 06/25/10 09:49 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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landman
8 Point
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1464
Loc: TN & Western KY
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Wes I agree, cause if someone was hunting Cross Creeks, daily, they wouldn't be gun hunting, and if they got drawn it would only be for one of the hunts. So maybe they didn't see a problem while bow hunting.
Local Law Enforcement, TWRA officers, US Fish and Wildlife Officers and Refuge Personal, had a BIG say in the reduction in Gun Hunters, number change, due to safety, with too many hunters in the area, and the "earn a buck" program, forcing hunters into doing what most didn't want to do. Kill a doe quickly as possible so they could then kill a Buck, 99% of the hunter there are not putting in to just kill a doe.
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#1973297 - 06/25/10 10:09 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: landman]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 17068
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Landman, the problem would have been much more easily solved by just eliminating "earn-a-buck". Reducing the # of hunters just put a band-aide on the problem.
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#1973304 - 06/25/10 10:13 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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landman
8 Point
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 1464
Loc: TN & Western KY
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Wes That is true to a point, on the North side unit you had about 90 hunters per hunt, but you had 80-90% of them piled up in one end of the unit. They all wanted to be in them flat bottoms and leave the hills and hollows alone
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#1973359 - 06/25/10 11:47 PM
Re: CROSS CREEKS NWR
[Re: landman]
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TCL
Spike
Registered: 07/31/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Clarksville, TN
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back 2 the original question...pick a area that is away from the crops and up on the high ground...south side of river is a little better IMO.
All the rifle hunters seem to hoover over the crops...go high ground and you will be pleased, also be prepared to hike a mile or so
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