#1942717 - 05/29/10 06:34 AM
When to start hammering...?
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15490
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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What is a good rule of thumb when it comes to taking out some does?
Is there a number of does in a group that you look for and when you find it, do you then decide that it's time to start "whacking and stacking".
Deer bunch up at times, I realize that, but sometimes during the season I see large groups of does (8 or more) and I was wondering if that is a sign that maybe some needed to be taken out....?
I enjoy seeing does in smaller groups, maybe three to five in a group, but when they start coming out in a field and before you know it, there are 15-20 out there, then maybe that's not such a good thing.
During the rut the groups may somewhat split up but as a general rule of thumb (if there is such a thing), how many does in a group is a good indicator that you may have too many on your property....?
During the season, especially mid to late season when pre-rut, rut and post rut are going on, I follow the does. I watch lots of does every year and I would prefer to see smaller groups or maybe pairs or even single does, I like my odds with less eyes, ears and noses out there.
I have seen as many as 18 in a corner of a bean field on one farm...too many IMO.
I know that this may have to do with a limited food source and they all come to the same source every day as well....
But most times, they come in a group out of the same trail and not from all directions like there are several groups meeting up in the field, but more like they are one big group.....
Any thoughts on this?
Bh
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#1942781 - 05/29/10 09:09 AM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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What is a good rule of thumb when it comes to taking out some does?
That's a biological question requiring a lot of data to answer. Every situation is unique. In addition, hunters' desires should never be ignored. what are the goals of the hunters? What type of hunting experience do they want?
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1942794 - 05/29/10 09:26 AM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Is there a number of does in a group that you look for and when you find it, do you then decide that it's time to start "whacking and stacking".
My answer is "sort of." And I say that because I don't believe doe social group size is an absolute indicator of deer density or deer over-utilization of the habitat. However, I have observed that it is common for herds that are too dense for the habitat to support to display large doe social group size during the early fall (late September through October). This time frame is important because it is normal doe behavior to join into large groups in winter and for social groups to split up in summer (during fawn rearing time). In addition, it has been my observation that deer herds that are in balance with the habitat display much smaller doe social groups in early fall, rarely containing more than 2 dult does and those does' fawns from this year (for a total social group size of 3-5 antlerless deer: 2 adult does and 1 to 3 fawns).
Now again, I wouldn't consider early fall doe social group size to be the key indicator of deer density vs habitat utilization. Instead I would look at this observation as "one piece of a complex puzzle."
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1942813 - 05/29/10 10:28 AM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: BSK]
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muddyboots
12 Point
Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 5920
Loc: savannah, tn., usa
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Never works for me. Hunt em with a bow and thats it. Works well on our lease.
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Let em go and let em grow!
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#1942819 - 05/29/10 10:41 AM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: muddyboots]
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Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 16933
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.
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Prior to such liberalized shooting of does like we have now it was not uncommon to see large groups of does/fawns. I don't recall seeing anything like that in the last several years. Now 7 at a time is a large group and most often I don't see near that many traveling together. No biologist here or anything but I think with the hammering of does over the years we've splintered family groups into smaller units.
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#1942822 - 05/29/10 10:45 AM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: Mike Belt]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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...I think with the hammering of does over the years we've splintered family groups into smaller units.
I agree and there may be several biological reasons for that.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1942830 - 05/29/10 10:59 AM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: BSK]
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Mike Belt
TnDeer Old Timer
16 Point
Registered: 03/26/99
Posts: 16933
Loc: Lakeland, Tn.
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BSK...Care to expand on that...
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#1942883 - 05/29/10 01:27 PM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: Mike Belt]
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SunShine
10 Point
Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 2557
Loc: Cleveland
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If ive sat in one place and watched 15 does gather then ive sat there way to long! I should already have blood up to my elbows
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#1942902 - 05/29/10 02:15 PM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: Mike Belt]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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BSK...Care to expand on that...
It could be a response to a lower deer population, allowing younger, less dominant females in a doe social group to "spread out" and establish their own social group (of which they are the dominant matriarch). Or, it may simply be the response of a doe social group that has had the matriarch removed by harvest. Kill the matriarch and the group disbands.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1943890 - 05/30/10 09:12 PM
Re: When to start hammering...?
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16991
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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What is a good rule of thumb when it comes to taking out some does?
Take no more male deer than female deer.
For really biologically sound management, in most cases I believe you're better off taking more female than male deer, ideally 55% males to 45% females.
I prefer to identify the oldest doe in any group, making those my primary targets. This not only reduces the accidental taking of button bucks, but also helps break up doe groups, spreading them a little better over the habitat, as well as making those spread out deer a little more available for harvest (not just because they're more scattered, but also because you've removed the most wary one).
If you're wanting specific numbers, that's going to vary a lot, but 1 doe per 100 acres is not a bad "rule of thumb". It is somewhat self-regulating (as is simply taking fewer male than female) in that if you have too many deer, easy to achieve, while if you have significantly fewer deer than your habitat can support, may be near impossible to achieve.
Ideally, you never want to ever need to "hammer" the does.
Maintain a fairly balanced harvest ongoing, and keeping the total herd at or below the habitat's capacity is somewhat self-regulating in that if the deer herd is increasing, you'll automatically start taking more bucks, necessitating your taking more does. If the density is reducing, you'll take fewer bucks, and "need" to take fewer does. Again, "generally speaking", and just a good rule of thumb.
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