#1941777 - 05/28/10 06:45 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: Diehard Hunter]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24708
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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How could it be, that a big buck could grow that much antler in just a few months? It is pretty crazy that an animal can grow that much bone so quickly. It seems like such an incredible waste of energy; to put so many invaluable body resources into something that will just be lost and have to be replaced the following year. Of course, if they didn't fall off, bucks wouldn't have the opportunity to grow larger antlers as they get older. Obviously, having larger antlers with age is important to the Natural Selection process. The question is, how larger is large enough for Natural Selection to function properly? Wonder why deer have "antlers" that fall off,and antelope have "horns"that dont and keep growing.? Actually Pronghorns shed their sheaths every year, retaining the boney core. Didnt know that
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#1941894 - 05/28/10 09:01 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: MRUTVOL]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59668
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I know this thread started as a joke kinda but now that the intrest has started let me just say that no they do not all drop their antlers! I killed a 10 pointer about 10 years ago in late November that was in full soft velvet. He was a 4 1/2 year old. He had no male parts to be seen. I have seen not one but 2 already this year on the same farm . I first seen one in January while I was coyote hunting. He had a big typical 9 point rack and a large body so I would say he is an older deer. His rack was actually bleeding on one side for some reason. So I assume he was still in soft velvet also. Then the second one I saw was the opening weekend of turkey season in April. He had a massive velvet rack with the right side having 4 full typical points and the left side had a browtine close to 6 inches long or more along with a main beam but no noticable points on it and he was in full velvet also. Now question I have is it possible that somehow there is a gene being passed in this particular area that could be causing this freak of nature to occur or just a very bad run of luck and these 2 bucks lost their genitals in some manner. I hate to waste a tag but if I see them this fall I will probably take them out of the herd. They never lose these racks due to their problems but the racks do appear to grow larger with time. BSK what say you??
If a buck's body cannot produce or recognize the "right" peaks and valleys of testosterone at the right times of year, his rack will grow abnormally. Several reasons can exist for why his body is unable to do this, and each reason can produce a different antler outcome. But in most instances, because it takes the most testosterone to cause velvet to die and shed, if he cannot produce a high level of testosterone his velvet never dies. The antlers just keep growing and growing his entire life. This can produce what is called a "cactus rack"--many, many abnormal points. This is also why "cactus racks" are not allowed in the record-books, because they are not grown in a single year but over an entire lifetime.
Reasons for abnormal testosterone poduction/effects range from being born without testicles or only partially formed testicles, disfunctional testicles, testicular injury or removal (accidental castration), or a genetic inability for the buck's body to recognize and respond to testosterone.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1941983 - 05/28/10 10:21 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: BSK]
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Good time Charlie
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 10/08/99
Posts: 6568
Loc: Tazewell
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what would cause a buck to grow just nubs every year,I have a very large bodied buck that frequents my feeders ,he is Big but no Rack,He seems agressive towards other bucks,Do I need to take him out?I guess hunters think he is just a big Doe.But his body is half again as big as some of the other bucks.
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#1941995 - 05/28/10 10:44 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25335
Loc: TN
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what would cause a buck to grow just nubs every year,I have a very large bodied buck that frequents my feeders ,he is Big but no Rack,He seems agressive towards other bucks,Do I need to take him out?I guess hunters think he is just a big Doe.But his body is half again as big as some of the other bucks. I killed one of these type deer myself in Hickman co. several years ago. Field dressed maybe 135 lbs. and had a set of nads way bigger than your fist, but just 2 lil polished nubs barely above the hairline. We were filming a hunt and a buck was chasing 2 does. I filmed by buddy shoot the buck, and the 2 does were confused and stayed around. I handed him the cam and said i'll shoot that big doe as well, turns out she was a he and their were actually 2 bucks chasing a single doe! lol I guess he needed to be killed, as he was mature without a sign of growing a rack! This deer appeared to be totally healthy in every way, except for the lack of antlers. His pedicles were even very small, maybe the size of a dime!
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#1942163 - 05/28/10 02:18 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59668
Loc: Nashville, TN
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what would cause a buck to grow just nubs every year,I have a very large bodied buck that frequents my feeders ,he is Big but no Rack,He seems agressive towards other bucks,Do I need to take him out?I guess hunters think he is just a big Doe.But his body is half again as big as some of the other bucks. I killed one of these type deer myself in Hickman co. several years ago. Field dressed maybe 135 lbs. and had a set of nads way bigger than your fist, but just 2 lil polished nubs barely above the hairline. We were filming a hunt and a buck was chasing 2 does. I filmed by buddy shoot the buck, and the 2 does were confused and stayed around. I handed him the cam and said i'll shoot that big doe as well, turns out she was a he and their were actually 2 bucks chasing a single doe! lol I guess he needed to be killed, as he was mature without a sign of growing a rack! This deer appeared to be totally healthy in every way, except for the lack of antlers. His pedicles were even very small, maybe the size of a dime!
This sounds like a buck with a body that doesn't chemically recognize or respond to testosterone. It doesn't take much testosterone to get a rack started, and if basically isn't growing antlers...
This problem even occurs in humans from time to time.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1942166 - 05/28/10 02:22 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: BSK]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25335
Loc: TN
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Thats weird bsk, as he appeared to have a sex drive, as he was actively chasing a doe? Mother nature can do some strange things I guess.
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#1942347 - 05/28/10 05:41 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59668
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Thats weird bsk, as he appeared to have a sex drive, as he was actively chasing a doe? Mother nature can do some strange things I guess.
Yup, and many of the thigs Bature does we don't understand or even know about yet.
One of the "absolutes" of Nature is that it eventually gets around to trying everything. Without variation, life can't exist for long.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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