#1938753 - 05/25/10 09:10 PM
BSK
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mr.big
Non-Typical
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is it true bucks shed their antlers every year??
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#1938765 - 05/25/10 09:14 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: JCDEERMAN]
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mr.big
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Registered: 01/03/01
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first giggle I had all friggin day,,LOL
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#1938782 - 05/25/10 09:20 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: mr.big]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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They never shed them in KY... 
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#1938814 - 05/25/10 09:23 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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paradis1142
10 Point
Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 3836
Loc: crossville tn
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They never shed them in KY...
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#1938931 - 05/25/10 09:56 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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cecil30-30
16 Point
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 13189
Loc: Morgan Co
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They never shed them in KY...
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#1938965 - 05/25/10 10:33 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: cecil30-30]
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RKenney
10 Point
Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 3633
Loc: Maury Co.
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I'm still waiting on BSK's repley. I often wondered about that
very same question. How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months?
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#1939067 - 05/26/10 06:55 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: RKenney]
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JCDEERMAN
14 Point
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 7634
Loc: NASHVILLE, TN
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I'm still waiting on BSK's repley. I often wondered about that
very same question. How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months?
An inch a day keeps the hunter away.....till he's done growing
Edited by JCDEERMAN (05/26/10 06:55 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#1939106 - 05/26/10 07:48 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: mr.big]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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is it true bucks shed their antlers every year??
Good question. I'll have to put together a study to look into that. 
Personally, I think it's a myth...
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1939110 - 05/26/10 07:54 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: RKenney]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months?
It is pretty crazy that an animal can grow that much bone so quickly.
It seems like such an incredible waste of energy; to put so many invaluable body resources into something that will just be lost and have to be replaced the following year.
Of course, if they didn't fall off, bucks wouldn't have the opportunity to grow larger antlers as they get older. Obviously, having larger antlers with age is important to the Natural Selection process. The question is, how larger is large enough for Natural Selection to function properly?
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1939122 - 05/26/10 08:10 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: BSK]
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Hawk
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 09/03/99
Posts: 6141
Loc: west tenn.
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Bigger is better.
What happens to the antlers of a buck that has been castrated?
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#1939203 - 05/26/10 09:32 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: Hawk]
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BigGameGuy
TWRA Biologist
12 Point
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 6353
Loc: Nashville
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Believe it or not Hawk, that is a myth. (And I also know that you probably don't think that but I'm going to use your statement as a teaching lesson since many folks really do think that... )
When it comes to natural selection, fitness (being "better") is actually a product of whatever gene allows the animal to survive and produce the most viable offspring. In the case of bigger antlers, we are finding out that bigger is definitely not always better, especially if it leads to you getting shot faster (high grading). In fact, there is even a small population of slickhead bucks on the coast of North Carolina (I'm faily certain of the state) that is doing quite well because no one wants to shoot them. Because of this, their fitness has increased causing them to become "better" (if that makes any sense). Another good example of this is the extremely aggressive buck. Though he may have a smaller set of antlers, he can drive away more timid, larger antlered deer and do more of the breeding. In that case, the superior gene is the aggressiveness.
Anyhow, when I hear folks talk about superior genes, it's most often in reference to penned animals where they are trying to produce a specific characteristic. In nature, it's quite difficult to determine superior genes. That is of course unless you wait a few thousand years to see what comes of things. 
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#1939221 - 05/26/10 09:48 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: BSK]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months? It is pretty crazy that an animal can grow that much bone so quickly. It seems like such an incredible waste of energy; to put so many invaluable body resources into something that will just be lost and have to be replaced the following year. Of course, if they didn't fall off, bucks wouldn't have the opportunity to grow larger antlers as they get older. Obviously, having larger antlers with age is important to the Natural Selection process. The question is, how larger is large enough for Natural Selection to function properly?
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You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1939594 - 05/26/10 03:54 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: Football Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months? It is pretty crazy that an animal can grow that much bone so quickly. It seems like such an incredible waste of energy; to put so many invaluable body resources into something that will just be lost and have to be replaced the following year. Of course, if they didn't fall off, bucks wouldn't have the opportunity to grow larger antlers as they get older. Obviously, having larger antlers with age is important to the Natural Selection process. The question is, how larger is large enough for Natural Selection to function properly? Wonder why deer have "antlers" that fall off,and antelope have "horns"that dont and keep growing.?
Antlers and horns are two completely different features. Horns are actually made out of hair, while antlers are true bone.
But why Nature developed the two completely different features is a good question.
Interestingly, the ancestors to white-tailed deer did not have antlers. They had big canine fangs (as some deer species still do). On rare occassion, the genetic trigger for this ancestral genetic trait accidentally becomes active and the deer grows canine fangs.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1939814 - 05/26/10 06:24 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: Football Hunter]
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Diehard Hunter
12 Point
Registered: 08/01/08
Posts: 5222
Loc: East Tennessee
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How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months? It is pretty crazy that an animal can grow that much bone so quickly. It seems like such an incredible waste of energy; to put so many invaluable body resources into something that will just be lost and have to be replaced the following year. Of course, if they didn't fall off, bucks wouldn't have the opportunity to grow larger antlers as they get older. Obviously, having larger antlers with age is important to the Natural Selection process. The question is, how larger is large enough for Natural Selection to function properly? Wonder why deer have "antlers" that fall off,and antelope have "horns"that dont and keep growing.?
Actually Pronghorns shed their sheaths every year, retaining the boney core.
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#1941519 - 05/27/10 09:37 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: mr.big]
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MRUTVOL
6 Point
Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 868
Loc: Goodlettsville,Tennessee,USA
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bmp
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#1941533 - 05/27/10 09:42 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: MRUTVOL]
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Beekeeper
Good ol' Boys "Team Buckcreek"
16 Point
Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 10943
Loc: McMinn Co. Tennessee
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I know this thread started as a joke kinda but now that the intrest has started let me just say that no they do not all drop their antlers! I killed a 10 pointer about 10 years ago in late November that was in full soft velvet. He was a 4 1/2 year old. He had no male parts to be seen. I have seen not one but 2 already this year on the same farm . I first seen one in January while I was coyote hunting. He had a big typical 9 point rack and a large body so I would say he is an older deer. His rack was actually bleeding on one side for some reason. So I assume he was still in soft velvet also. Then the second one I saw was the opening weekend of turkey season in April. He had a massive velvet rack with the right side having 4 full typical points and the left side had a browtine close to 6 inches long or more along with a main beam but no noticable points on it and he was in full velvet also. Now question I have is it possible that somehow there is a gene being passed in this particular area that could be causing this freak of nature to occur or just a very bad run of luck and these 2 bucks lost their genitals in some manner. I hate to waste a tag but if I see them this fall I will probably take them out of the herd. They never lose these racks due to their problems but the racks do appear to grow larger with time. BSK what say you?? 
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#1941777 - 05/28/10 06:45 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: Diehard Hunter]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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Offline
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How could it be, that a big buck could grow
that much antler in just a few months? It is pretty crazy that an animal can grow that much bone so quickly. It seems like such an incredible waste of energy; to put so many invaluable body resources into something that will just be lost and have to be replaced the following year. Of course, if they didn't fall off, bucks wouldn't have the opportunity to grow larger antlers as they get older. Obviously, having larger antlers with age is important to the Natural Selection process. The question is, how larger is large enough for Natural Selection to function properly? Wonder why deer have "antlers" that fall off,and antelope have "horns"that dont and keep growing.? Actually Pronghorns shed their sheaths every year, retaining the boney core.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1941894 - 05/28/10 09:01 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: MRUTVOL]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I know this thread started as a joke kinda but now that the intrest has started let me just say that no they do not all drop their antlers! I killed a 10 pointer about 10 years ago in late November that was in full soft velvet. He was a 4 1/2 year old. He had no male parts to be seen. I have seen not one but 2 already this year on the same farm . I first seen one in January while I was coyote hunting. He had a big typical 9 point rack and a large body so I would say he is an older deer. His rack was actually bleeding on one side for some reason. So I assume he was still in soft velvet also. Then the second one I saw was the opening weekend of turkey season in April. He had a massive velvet rack with the right side having 4 full typical points and the left side had a browtine close to 6 inches long or more along with a main beam but no noticable points on it and he was in full velvet also. Now question I have is it possible that somehow there is a gene being passed in this particular area that could be causing this freak of nature to occur or just a very bad run of luck and these 2 bucks lost their genitals in some manner. I hate to waste a tag but if I see them this fall I will probably take them out of the herd. They never lose these racks due to their problems but the racks do appear to grow larger with time. BSK what say you??
If a buck's body cannot produce or recognize the "right" peaks and valleys of testosterone at the right times of year, his rack will grow abnormally. Several reasons can exist for why his body is unable to do this, and each reason can produce a different antler outcome. But in most instances, because it takes the most testosterone to cause velvet to die and shed, if he cannot produce a high level of testosterone his velvet never dies. The antlers just keep growing and growing his entire life. This can produce what is called a "cactus rack"--many, many abnormal points. This is also why "cactus racks" are not allowed in the record-books, because they are not grown in a single year but over an entire lifetime.
Reasons for abnormal testosterone poduction/effects range from being born without testicles or only partially formed testicles, disfunctional testicles, testicular injury or removal (accidental castration), or a genetic inability for the buck's body to recognize and respond to testosterone.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1941983 - 05/28/10 10:21 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: BSK]
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Good time Charlie
TnDeer Old Timer
12 Point
Registered: 10/08/99
Posts: 6539
Loc: Tazewell
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what would cause a buck to grow just nubs every year,I have a very large bodied buck that frequents my feeders ,he is Big but no Rack,He seems agressive towards other bucks,Do I need to take him out?I guess hunters think he is just a big Doe.But his body is half again as big as some of the other bucks.
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#1941995 - 05/28/10 10:44 AM
Re: BSK
[Re: Good time Charlie]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25233
Loc: TN
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what would cause a buck to grow just nubs every year,I have a very large bodied buck that frequents my feeders ,he is Big but no Rack,He seems agressive towards other bucks,Do I need to take him out?I guess hunters think he is just a big Doe.But his body is half again as big as some of the other bucks.
I killed one of these type deer myself in Hickman co. several years ago. Field dressed maybe 135 lbs. and had a set of nads way bigger than your fist, but just 2 lil polished nubs barely above the hairline. We were filming a hunt and a buck was chasing 2 does. I filmed by buddy shoot the buck, and the 2 does were confused and stayed around. I handed him the cam and said i'll shoot that big doe as well, turns out she was a he and their were actually 2 bucks chasing a single doe! lol I guess he needed to be killed, as he was mature without a sign of growing a rack! This deer appeared to be totally healthy in every way, except for the lack of antlers. His pedicles were even very small, maybe the size of a dime!
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#1942163 - 05/28/10 02:18 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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what would cause a buck to grow just nubs every year,I have a very large bodied buck that frequents my feeders ,he is Big but no Rack,He seems agressive towards other bucks,Do I need to take him out?I guess hunters think he is just a big Doe.But his body is half again as big as some of the other bucks. I killed one of these type deer myself in Hickman co. several years ago. Field dressed maybe 135 lbs. and had a set of nads way bigger than your fist, but just 2 lil polished nubs barely above the hairline. We were filming a hunt and a buck was chasing 2 does. I filmed by buddy shoot the buck, and the 2 does were confused and stayed around. I handed him the cam and said i'll shoot that big doe as well, turns out she was a he and their were actually 2 bucks chasing a single doe! lol I guess he needed to be killed, as he was mature without a sign of growing a rack! This deer appeared to be totally healthy in every way, except for the lack of antlers. His pedicles were even very small, maybe the size of a dime!
This sounds like a buck with a body that doesn't chemically recognize or respond to testosterone. It doesn't take much testosterone to get a rack started, and if basically isn't growing antlers...
This problem even occurs in humans from time to time.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1942166 - 05/28/10 02:22 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: BSK]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25233
Loc: TN
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Thats weird bsk, as he appeared to have a sex drive, as he was actively chasing a doe? Mother nature can do some strange things I guess.
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#1942347 - 05/28/10 05:41 PM
Re: BSK
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Thats weird bsk, as he appeared to have a sex drive, as he was actively chasing a doe? Mother nature can do some strange things I guess.
Yup, and many of the thigs Bature does we don't understand or even know about yet.
One of the "absolutes" of Nature is that it eventually gets around to trying everything. Without variation, life can't exist for long.
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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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