#1937563 - 05/24/10 10:08 PM
E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
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RKenney
10 Point
Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 3633
Loc: Maury Co.
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What's the difference, as far as soil, racks, herd health, and other factors related to succsess in hunting deer in those areas? I know in the early years, Tennessee produced some unreal bucks that were killed on the Cumberlad Plateau and furter east.
In a more contemperary time, it seems eastern Kentucky has several booners the come from eastern Kentucky and Tennessee has less. I don't live in east Tennessee, but if I did, I would love the challenge (if I were younger).
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#1937582 - 05/24/10 10:22 PM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: RKenney]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14908
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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I wonder how many of those bucks in E. KY are killed near the Ohio river or the water ways that run off it. Probably the soil is not to bad in those areas...
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#1937586 - 05/24/10 10:33 PM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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RKenney
10 Point
Registered: 03/15/08
Posts: 3633
Loc: Maury Co.
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I "wonder" too. Maybe some data type hunters will chime in.
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#1937644 - 05/25/10 12:27 AM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: RKenney]
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BowGirl
6 Point
Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 696
Loc: Tennessee
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Anyone that pays alot of attention to KY knows that E Ky is a hotspot for big brusiers. Considering the differences in deer densities between E and W KY it is surprising that E KY produces so many of the top bucks in KY each year and of all time. Its an interesting subject for sure. If you compare W KY to the top bucks harvested in E KY each year in relation to the deer and hunter density the soil dosent amount to a hill of beans in growing big bucks in E KY. After all there is no good soil in E KY so how can it be a factor? :)If E KY could only support the # of deer that W KY could support the differences would be nill IMO. Unfortunately for E KY hunters the habitat cant support it. The 1 buck limit/shortened season combined with some tough terrain is what i believe to be the primary factors for E KY success. These factors are also reflected in KY's harvest #s. They harvest fewer bucks naturally because of the more restricted limits. This enables more bucks to reach an age where they produce the big racks. Age IS the most important factor so that's where it starts.
I believe that both herds are "healthy" but I do believe there are some rut differences between the two. I have noticed personally over many years of hunting the two that the areas i hunt in KY have a shorter more intense rut than the areas i hunt in TN. I have noticed some improvements with this in recent years at my places in TN. I believe that my local management practices are helping but i worry that it might not stay that way. A short well timed rut may have some growth benefits vs a long drawn out rut.
Looking at TN alot of bruisers are walking HAAP in Hawkins Co as we speak. Anyone seen a pic of "moose"? I would fall out of my tree in Iowa if i saw that deer. Fentress Co has tough terrain and a low deer density and its one of the top counties for big bucks in TN. Cumberland has its fair share as well including the state typical. I believe a 200 incher was killed with a bow in E TN (royal blue maybe?)and is close if not the state record (someone correct me if im wrong on this). Big and i mean big deer have been coming from E TN for years. So is good soil the reason for this? Apparently not since it doesnt exist right? These areas have "poor" soil yet some of the biggest bucks? How can soil possibly be a factor if it isnt a factor? I certainly dont have the answer and i havent seen a believeable explanation on here. I believe the main difference between E KY and E TN isnt the soil at all, its the way they are managed, thus the differences. HAAP is managed much different than the rest of TN thus the differences. It isnt hard to see if your willing to look. Sure E TN and E KY is not Iowa bottom land and sure it matters for growing b&c bucks but TN's soil is good enough to put a big buck on my wall or any other hunter's wall and that's all that concerns me and SHOULD be the concern of others that know a little about the subject. There is just too big a big buck difference in E KY and E TN and too little difference in geographic location, subspecies size at maturity and soil quality between the two for me to think that age isnt the real difference. Im sure we will see a graph or some jargin that says otherwise but i aint buying. That's just deer hunter management for ya. Ill not be managed.
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#1937694 - 05/25/10 05:46 AM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: BowGirl]
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Setterman
8 Point
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1783
Loc: Knoxville, TN
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SE KY has some really quality deer, but so does the same type of terrain here in East TN. I actually found through camera surveys that last year TN had more mature bucks then across the border. The habitat is a little better on our side, and there is much less hunting pressure.
The biggest reason there aren't more mature deer killed here versus KY is hunting pressure. There are alot more folks hunting the KY side versus the TN side. I guess the TN folks are not willing to fight the steep terrain to try and kill deer like those who live north of the border.
There is nothing wrong with the soils and habitat on either side. Both are adequate for growing some really quality deer, the limiting factor is hunting pressure and terrain.
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#1937696 - 05/25/10 05:50 AM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: Setterman]
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ghosthunter
10 Point
Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3446
Loc: chattanooga
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Interesting topic.
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it's a long way to the top if ya wanna rock 'n' roll
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#1937730 - 05/25/10 06:13 AM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: Setterman]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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SE KY has some really quality deer, but so does the same type of terrain here in East TN. I actually found through camera surveys that last year TN had more mature bucks then across the border. The habitat is a little better on our side, and there is much less hunting pressure.
The biggest reason there aren't more mature deer killed here versus KY is hunting pressure. There are alot more folks hunting the KY side versus the TN side. I guess the TN folks are not willing to fight the steep terrain to try and kill deer like those who live north of the border.
There is nothing wrong with the soils and habitat on either side. Both are adequate for growing some really quality deer, the limiting factor is hunting pressure and terrain. I saw a map of Kys top 10 countys for B&C bucks,9 of them are where you would expect,west of I65,one was not.
The number 4 overall B&C county,Lewis I beleive is way east,and north.I asked a Ky DNR guy why,his opinion was river soils,rough terrain,limited pressure.
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#1937731 - 05/25/10 06:14 AM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: Setterman]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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SE KY has some really quality deer, but so does the same type of terrain here in East TN. I actually found through camera surveys that last year TN had more mature bucks then across the border. The habitat is a little better on our side, and there is much less hunting pressure.
The biggest reason there aren't more mature deer killed here versus KY is hunting pressure. There are alot more folks hunting the KY side versus the TN side. I guess the TN folks are not willing to fight the steep terrain to try and kill deer like those who live north of the border.
There is nothing wrong with the soils and habitat on either side. Both are adequate for growing some really quality deer, the limiting factor is hunting pressure and terrain. So ,are you saying that more hunting pressure in KY leads to bigger bucks?
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1937737 - 05/25/10 06:23 AM
Re: E. Tn. deer VS E, Ky deer?
[Re: ghosthunter]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16955
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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I don't really know why East Ky has been producing more high-scoring bucks than East TN, but I do not think the answer is because of soil. More harvest pressure in KY doesn't make a lot of sense either to me. Setterman mentioned he had experienced more hunting pressure on the KY side of the line. However, on the TN side of the line the rifle/muzzleloader seasons are over twice as many days and the buck limit is 3x higher.
Here's what I think, but these thoughts shed more insight as to why more high-scoring bucks come from East KY than would be expected, say compared to West KY or West TN.
In most situations, AGE trumps SOIL in producing high-scoring antlers. Most bucks should have their highest-scoring antlers at the age of 6 1/2. We know that many of the B&C bucks coming from the best-soil areas of West KY are only 3 1/2 years old. But it may be that an average 5 1/2-yr-old buck from East KY has antlers comparable to an average 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 form West KY. Perhaps since the habitat is tougher hunting in most of East KY compared to agriculturals areas of West KY, relatively more East KY bucks advance into the older age classes?
Another factor I believe may be the the really huge one that's overlooked most: Antler high-grading by hunters.
This generally should be happening to a higher degree in more open farmland areas (where larger antlered younger bucks are more readily seen and specifically targeted). It may be that less antler high-grading is the single largest factor in why East KY is producing relatively more high-scoring bucks than expected.
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