#1927581 - 05/16/10 09:47 PM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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poles
Spike
Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Shelby County, TN
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Looks like W Tn timber company land to me, maybe RiverOaks Timber Co. They are in the process of severing their leases with most of their current clubs in Tn and KY. Their new business model will open their places up for bids, with the winning bidder getting a 3 year lease. One half or so of the places will be control leases where no improvements are made, and the other half will have improvements made by RiverOak.
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#1927834 - 05/17/10 07:10 AM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: poles]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Wes,
I agree high-grading of the best 2 1/2s is taking place, but what percent of all deer hunters in TN are good enough to seriously affect the 3 1/2 year-old age-class? I'll bet a very, very small percentage.
Secondly, if you consider in Bottom Hunter's 2,000-acre scenario that the hunters/managers can fully manage the habitat, they can produce the kind of sanctuary needed to draw most of the surrounding 3 1/2+ year-old bucks to the property during the hunting season hence protect them from high-grading or over-harvest. In that scenario, they WILL have harvestable numbers of mature bucks.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1927866 - 05/17/10 07:30 AM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: poles]
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smstone22
16 Point
Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 16262
Loc: Allardt, TN
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Looks like W Tn timber company land to me, maybe RiverOaks Timber Co. They are in the process of severing their leases with most of their current clubs in Tn and KY. Their new business model will open their places up for bids, with the winning bidder getting a 3 year lease. One half or so of the places will be control leases where no improvements are made, and the other half will have improvements made by RiverOak. Yeah I noticed the RiverOaks stuff on QDMA website. There are ALOT of properties involved in that in West TN.
_________________________
-QDM=Better Deer, Better Deer Hunting - Fentress Roots 200 years and growing
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#1927899 - 05/17/10 07:55 AM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: BSK]
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Wes Parrish
16 Point
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 16975
Loc: Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN
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Wes,
I agree high-grading of the best 2 1/2s is taking place, but what percent of all deer hunters in TN are good enough to seriously affect the 3 1/2 year-old age-class? I'll bet a very, very small percentage. I must be surrounded by much better than average deer hunters.  Seriously, I know I'm not the only one who typically gets multiple opportunities at any particular 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 each season.
But this is not just an issue of hunter skill. Very long gun seasons and the 3-buck limit may be as much a factor in this antler high-grading as collective hunter skills.
Much of my point was that MOST of the better 2 1/2's simply don't make it to 3 1/2. It's mainly the smaller-than-average-antlered 2 1/2's that are moving up to 3 1/2 and older. And regarding those few better 2 1/2's that do make it to 3 1/2, they are the ones least likely to make it to 4 1/2.
Secondly, if you consider in Bottom Hunter's 2,000-acre scenario that the hunters/managers can fully manage the habitat, they can produce the kind of sanctuary needed to draw most of the surrounding 3 1/2+ year-old bucks to the property during the hunting season hence protect them from high-grading or over-harvest. In that scenario, they WILL have harvestable numbers of mature bucks. True, they WILL have harvestable numbers of mature bucks. But they also WILL still have the antler-high-grading problem, i.e. they'll have lot's of 3 1/2 & older bucks with relatively small antlers.
I'm having no problem growing mature bucks, but getting those 2 1/2's with above average antlers to 3 1/2 or older is a totally different issue.
I don't profess to have the answer to how to make this high-grading problem significantly less. On a personal level, I'm trying to focus more on age than antlers.
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#1927981 - 05/17/10 09:00 AM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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OneShot
8 Point
Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 2030
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA
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I think I've been watching too many hunting shows on television because I passed up two different 120 class deer last year looking for something bigger.
I need to stop watching so much television.
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#1928363 - 05/17/10 01:11 PM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I must be surrounded by much better than average deer hunters.  Seriously, I know I'm not the only one who typically gets multiple opportunities at any particular 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 each season.
You must be Wes, because that is NOT a common occurance for the average hunter. Remember, we have a ton of opening week of gun season hunters out there.
But this is not just an issue of hunter skill. Very long gun seasons and the 3-buck limit may be as much a factor in this antler high-grading as collective hunter skills.
Actually, I think it is a matter of hunting skill. The state has liberalized seasons and bag limits, yet the number of bucks harvested is not increasing, the percent of hunters that kill a buck is not increasing, yet the percentage of older bucks in the harvest is increasing. We have more older bucks yet a particular segment of hunters (a small segment--the most skilled segment) are the primary group benefitting.
Much of my point was that MOST of the better 2 1/2's simply don't make it to 3 1/2. It's mainly the smaller-than-average-antlered 2 1/2's that are moving up to 3 1/2 and older.
Although it is probably true that very top-end 2 1/2s become top-end mature bucks, at that age antler development is not yet displaying a high percentage of its potential. Just because a buck has a smaller than average rack at 2 1/2 doesn't mean he isn't going to be a whopper at maturity.
And regarding those few better 2 1/2's that do make it to 3 1/2, they are the ones least likely to make it to 4 1/2.
I think hunters kill only a small percentage of the 3 1/2 year-old buck age-class.
Secondly, if you consider in Bottom Hunter's 2,000-acre scenario that the hunters/managers can fully manage the habitat, they can produce the kind of sanctuary needed to draw most of the surrounding 3 1/2+ year-old bucks to the property during the hunting season hence protect them from high-grading or over-harvest. In that scenario, they WILL have harvestable numbers of mature bucks. True, they WILL have harvestable numbers of mature bucks. But they also WILL still have the antler-high-grading problem, i.e. they'll have lot's of 3 1/2 & older bucks with relatively small antlers. I'm having no problem growing mature bucks, but getting those 2 1/2's with above average antlers to 3 1/2 or older is a totally different issue. I don't profess to have the answer to how to make this high-grading problem significantly less. On a personal level, I'm trying to focus more on age than antlers.
That sanctuary will draw all bucks pressured by surrounding hunters, including 2 1/2s and the yearlings smart enough to learn hunter avoidance tactics.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1928548 - 05/17/10 03:03 PM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: Wes Parrish]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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World Class in TN probably doesn't exist!
_________________________
Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1928573 - 05/17/10 03:15 PM
Re: World Class Leases in TN
[Re: BigWes50]
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poles
Spike
Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Shelby County, TN
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RiverOak Timber ran an ad in the Sunday Memphis Commercial Appeal classifieds that began with "world class hunting in Tn" available by bid beginning June 28. Leading pics are some of their properties.
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