#1884214 - 04/14/10 07:22 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: Winchester]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Now trail-cams have DEFINITELY increased my knowledge about deer movement and behavior, and without question that increased knowledge has certainly helped me kill deer.
Exactly and there you have it! When used correctly they will absolutely help you decipher travel routes and confirm usage of them! They are a very helpful tool, especially for those lucky enough to have a place to use them over long periods of time where absolute patterns can be detected!
I would put "deciphering travel patterns" very low on my list of what trail-cams have taught me. In fact, they have taught me most bucks--in hilly, wooded terrain--don't really have destinct travel patterns. My research into rub densities and locations has taught me far more about how bucks use terrain and habitat (best stand locations) than trail-cameras. In my opinion, after 20+ years of using them, I feel trail-cameras are virtually useless as a scouting tool.
What trail-cams have taught me that has helped my hunting has been more about the seasonal shifts of individual bucks as well as when bucks are most active during daylight. They've helped me pinpoint those brief periods when even mature bucks move during daylight just before the peak of breeding and during the false rut. This has helped me focus my hunting time along favorable terrain during those peak movement periods while then shifting my hunting to "hot" rut sign as breeding actually commences.
I find it interesting that 90+% of the 3 1/2+ year-old bucks we've killed on my place have fallen far from where that particular buck was photographed most often (and sometimes as much as 3/4 of a mile). In most instances, we had never gotten a picture of that buck near where he was killed. Only once have we killed an old buck near where he was regularly photographed. In fact, I think there may be a reason for that. Because we kill most of our older bucks during their peak movement phase just before the rut, when their range is at its greatest extent, we are catching these bucks in areas they normally don't travel hence they don't know the area intimately and are more susceptible to harvest. In their core areas--where we photograph them most often--they know every twig and leaf thus quickly identify our pressence (hunting pressure) and avoid it.
Basically, it is easier to kill a wary old buck in territory he is not as familiar with, and he is most likely to travel through areas he is not as familiar with just before peak breeding.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1884219 - 04/14/10 07:25 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: skynimrod]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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The Law is only during the General Hunting Season, and is very poorly written. Some believe this could also ban Digital Photo cameras.
The law is so poorly written some pointed out on another website that electronic devices, such as trail-cams may only be illegal while hunting. That would mean the use of trail-cams--setting them up and checking them--while you are not hunting would be perfectly legal.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1884226 - 04/14/10 07:28 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: MUP]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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"Basically, it is easier to kill a wary old buck in territory he is not as familiar with, and he is most likely to travel through areas he is not as familiar with just before peak breeding. " And thank goodness for that!  
I hear you! If it wasn't for the rut, I would never kill an old buck. I'm just not that good of a hunter.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1884254 - 04/14/10 07:50 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: BSK]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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After thinking about it, let me clarify my statement that I think trail-cameras are virtually useless as a scouting tool:
1) I don't need a trail-cam to tell me an old buck is working an area. His sign will tell me that. But if I were a trophy hunter, the sign won't tell me the size of an old buck's antlers, and trail-cameras would be a great tool for determining if a particular old buck was worth hunting (had large antlers).
2) If I had the option of hunting numerous properties, or a large public area, trail-cameras could help me determine which property or which part of a large property had the most bucks of the type I want to persue.
3) I've never used trail-cameras specifically as a scouting tool. I use them to census the local buck population and track seasonal shifts in range. Perhaps if I focused more on trying to determine how a particular buck is going from point "A" to point "B" they might help decipher huntable patterns. For census work, I only care about photographing that buck at point "A" and "B".
4) I hunt primarily the rut period, when bucks are most likely to be outside their normal range and have less predicable travel patterns. Perhaps if I bow hunted in the early season, when bucks are a bit more predictable in their movement, trail-cameras would be more of a hunting aid.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1884286 - 04/14/10 08:12 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Baxter83
Good ol' Boys
12 Point
Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 7243
Loc: Winchester, TN
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Why not. It's just another unfair advantage. Everyone preaches "woodsmanship woodsmanship woodsmanship", but then turns around and has to rely on a CAMERA to find his deer and keep track of them. How is using a camera in the woods any kind of "woodsmanship"? I'm not really trying to bash anybody it's just one of those things that doesn't make sense to me.
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#1884296 - 04/14/10 08:20 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: Baxter83]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Why not. It's just another unfair advantage. Everyone preaches "woodsmanship woodsmanship woodsmanship", but then turns around and has to rely on a CAMERA to find his deer and keep track of them. How is using a camera in the woods any kind of "woodsmanship"? I'm not really trying to bash anybody it's just one of those things that doesn't make sense to me.
If it were actually possible/commonplace to do that, then fine. I question whether it is possible/commonplace.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1884305 - 04/14/10 08:27 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: BSK]
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tndrbstr
16 Point
Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 12157
Loc: knox co tn
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If it were actually possible/commonplace to do that, then fine. I question whether it is possible/commonplace.
...yet...
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#1884319 - 04/14/10 08:35 AM
Re: Montana Bans Game Cams!
[Re: bowriter]
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megalomaniac
10 Point
Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 4887
Loc: Mississippi
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BSK- it is real and it is not just MT.
Darn straight!
Ban 'em out west!
You've got to realize that hunting out west is TOTALLY different than whitetail hunting in the east.
The biggest problem I'm seeing with game cams is actually in NM/AZ over waterholes for elk. Elk are much more predictable than whitetails, and will frequent a waterhole often at similar times of the day just like cattle. Set up a cam, figure out if the bull using the waterhole is big enough to shoot, if it is post up before he gets there and shoot him right on time.
Game cams out west are not being used as management tools like many do in the east. They are used to gain an unfair advantage over the quarry more often than not.
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