#1873673 - 04/06/10 07:21 AM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: Football Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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No, my point is they aren't killing more older bucks than we are. In TN we kill more total bucks and more bucks of every age-class, from young to mature. But KY hunters kill more "trophy" bucks because their bucks grow more antler at each age-class than TN bucks do. If we had the same haibitat, we would blow away KY for trophy production because we kill so many more older to mature bucks than they do.
Our lack of "trophy" buck production in TN has nothing to do with the age of the bucks we are killing and has everything to do with our habitat.
Because the data doesn't exist but is so important to this discussion, I would love to see an industrious group of grad students set up a study where they aged and measured every buck coming in to processors in several locations in KY, and then do the same in TN. I would love to know what the average gross score of each age-class of harvested buck in these various locations is. I bet the results would be very illuminating.
So.....if Ky went to a 3 buck limit,they should blow away most states in trophy production?
Every state is different because of the length and timing of their firearms seasons, but yes I think it would be safe to say KY hunters would increasing their kill of mature bucks and trophy bucks if they increased their limit.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1873679 - 04/06/10 07:29 AM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: Spoonbillmallard]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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Well ofcourse we kill more total bucks in TN than they do in KY.....3 bucks to 1. You could pretty much assume that without even looking at data. And ofcourse we kill more bucks from every age class.....AGAIN 3 bucks to 1. I know tons of people who hunt in KY and they don't kill any young bucks. Guess why????? I buck limit!! And yes they do have better habitat for producing better antler development.
Actually, KY hunters kill a slighly HIGHER percentage of young bucks than TN hunters do. Their 1 buck limit obviously does NOT--ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT--influence hunters to hold out for older bucks. The data is very clear about that point.
And you cannot sit there and tell me that a 2.5 yr old buck will not be twice the size at the age of 5 yrs old.
Some will and some won't. Not every buck grows large antlers even at maturity.
It is very simple the older the buck the bigger the rack...to a certain point ofcourse. And yes I do believe they have bigger antler development for each age class. But how many times have you been at the checking station and a guy brings a deer in that has antler development beyond his age?? I have seen this numerous times in TN.
You have to remember there is a HUGE range of antler scores you will see for every age-class. For bucks 3 1/2+ that range exceeds 100 gross inches. In essence, you will see a few that are gross 50 and a few that are gross 150+. However, the important number is the AVERAGE per age-class, as most bucks of that age will fall within +/- 15 gross inches of that average. The "outliers" top and bottom of the scale aren't as important. It is the average that is important.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1873908 - 04/06/10 09:50 AM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: BSK]
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W.Seay
12 Point
Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 7144
Loc: Collierville,TN.
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There is no comparison between the two "mindsets", they are completely different!
_________________________
To one with faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.
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#1874175 - 04/06/10 12:30 PM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: Football Hunter]
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BigWes50
10 Point
Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 3207
Loc: Chattanooga, TN
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Agreed on habitat,I also believe less gun pressure helps,... Again, you're assuming they are killing more mature bucks. They are not. I guess your point is that so few people would kill more than one that it wouldnt make that much of an impact. No, my point is they aren't killing more older bucks than we are. In TN we kill more total bucks and more bucks of every age-class, from young to mature. But KY hunters kill more "trophy" bucks because their bucks grow more antler at each age-class than TN bucks do. If we had the same haibitat, we would blow away KY for trophy production because we kill so many more older to mature bucks than they do. Our lack of "trophy" buck production in TN has nothing to do with the age of the bucks we are killing and has everything to do with our habitat. Because the data doesn't exist but is so important to this discussion, I would love to see an industrious group of grad students set up a study where they aged and measured every buck coming in to processors in several locations in KY, and then do the same in TN. I would love to know what the average gross score of each age-class of harvested buck in these various locations is. I bet the results would be very illuminating. So.....if Ky went to a 3 buck limit,they should blow away most states in trophy production?
Excatly! And remember KY doesn't have great data collection like we USE to have! So differences will be huge IMO
_________________________
Just as the deer can suddenly materialize in the woods, "Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Matthew 24:44)
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#1875799 - 04/07/10 02:22 PM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: BigWes50]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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I assuming we know about Kys age stucture of killed bucks by random checks or something,Im sure its hard to age em over the phone.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1875886 - 04/07/10 03:41 PM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: Football Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I assuming we know about Kys age stucture of killed bucks by random checks or something,Im sure its hard to age em over the phone.
Data collection at processors.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1876620 - 04/07/10 10:24 PM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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TN RDG RNR
12 Point
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 6086
Loc: Rhea County
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I am a trophy hunter and you know, funny thing is Ive never been questioned about the way I hunt, name called, picked on or whatever you may want to call it by a meat hunter. Now I can't count the number of times the very hunters I lump myself into a group with have turned on me.
I try and respect everyone else's right to hunt the way they want and guess they tend return the favor. Works good that way.
_________________________
WARNING: The above post may contain sarcasm and/or sophisticated satire. I will not be held liable for any psychological damage sustained.
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#1876830 - 04/08/10 07:45 AM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: BSK]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24550
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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I assuming we know about Kys age stucture of killed bucks by random checks or something,Im sure its hard to age em over the phone. Data collection at processors.
_________________________
The best day to plant a tree,IS TODAY!
You wont know,if you dont go!
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#1877231 - 04/08/10 11:48 AM
Re: Compare the two mindsets.........
[Re: Football Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
Non-Typical
Registered: 03/11/99
Posts: 59548
Loc: Nashville, TN
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I assuming we know about Kys age stucture of killed bucks by random checks or something,Im sure its hard to age em over the phone. Data collection at processors. ok,and this guy may be an anomole,but I cant imagine the guy who pulls the deer out of the truck,and records the info,where I take some deer each year to be processed,knows a thing about aging deer.Maybe he is the only one.
The processor doesn't collect the data. The data was collected by TWRA biologists at the processor location.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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