#1838634 - 03/14/10 02:38 PM
Mapping Trophy Bucks
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Pursuit Hunter
8 Point
Registered: 10/01/08
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On a separate thread, several guys were talking about the book Mapping Trophy Bucks. Well, I had to have it. I got it and spent yesterday reading it and this morning writing a book review on it. Despite a couple issues that I talk about in my review here http://www.pursuithunting.com/2010/03/mapping-trophy-bucks-book-review.html I thought it was a pretty good overview of terrain features, thier influence on deer movement, and how to recognize them on a topo map.
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#1838756 - 03/14/10 04:06 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Pursuit Hunter]
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whistlinwingman
8 Point
Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1826
Loc: Morristown
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I admire all of your posts Pursuit Hunter and really enjoyed the Nat'l Geographic topo tutorial. But I've read the book three times from cover to cover and didn't/don't see all the negatives you point out in your review. I am by no means as experienced or accomplished in the whitetail world as you are and maybe I have read it with a beginners attitude in mind.
I somewhat feel embarassed about talking so highly of this book now.
_________________________
"I'm a great believer in luck, I find the harder I work the more I have it" -Thomas Jefferson
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#1838760 - 03/14/10 04:08 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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gator-n-buck
16 Point
Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 14953
Loc: Knox, TN / Palatka, FL
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Thanks for the info and I will have to get a copy and try it out...
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#1838780 - 03/14/10 04:18 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: gator-n-buck]
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Football Hunter
18 Point
Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 24708
Loc: Wilson Co/Perry Co
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Have read mine twice
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#1838795 - 03/14/10 04:33 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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Pursuit Hunter
8 Point
Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2084
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I admire all of your posts Pursuit Hunter and really enjoyed the Nat'l Geographic topo tutorial. But I've read the book three times from cover to cover and didn't/don't see all the negatives you point out in your review. I am by no means as experienced or accomplished in the whitetail world as you are and maybe I have read it with a beginners attitude in mind.
I somewhat feel embarassed about talking so highly of this book now.
Dude! No reason to feel embarassed. Overall, I think it is a very good book. I just think it is missing one huge point regarding reading sign in conjunction with using terrain features. The other gripes I had were just me being me (picky). I'm glad you recommended it. If nothing else, I came away with at least a dozen ideas of things to write about in the future. Thanks.
Edited by Pursuit Hunter (03/14/10 04:39 PM)
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#1838819 - 03/14/10 04:54 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Pursuit Hunter]
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whistlinwingman
8 Point
Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1826
Loc: Morristown
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I admire all of your posts Pursuit Hunter and really enjoyed the Nat'l Geographic topo tutorial. But I've read the book three times from cover to cover and didn't/don't see all the negatives you point out in your review. I am by no means as experienced or accomplished in the whitetail world as you are and maybe I have read it with a beginners attitude in mind.
I somewhat feel embarassed about talking so highly of this book now. Dude! No reason to feel embarassed. Overall, I think it is a very good book. I just think it is missing one huge point regarding reading sign in conjunction with using terrain features. The other gripes I had were just me being me (picky). I'm glad you recommended it. If nothing else, I came away with at least a dozen ideas of things to write about in the future. Thanks.
Good deal then. I think I assumed that he had to be "reading sign" to even consider hunting these areas. I know he didn't mention sign and I think he even said he didn't care if sign was there or not. I know in everyone of his examples there were multiple trails leading in or around his area. So whether he admits it or not he is using sign for stand locations IMO.
_________________________
"I'm a great believer in luck, I find the harder I work the more I have it" -Thomas Jefferson
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#1838999 - 03/14/10 06:59 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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LIL JOKER
14 Point
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 9114
Loc: tennessee
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GREAT book ..
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#1839042 - 03/14/10 07:20 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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Pursuit Hunter
8 Point
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That could be, but keep in mind, the presence of a trail doesn't mean that deer are actively using it at that time. For example, there are lots of trails that get heavily used in the summer when deer are feeding primarily on browse that won't be used at all later in the season when there are acorns on the ground. Unless there is sign like fresh tracks or fresh droppings in the trail, you really have no idea whether the deer are using it or not.
Again, I think the book does a great job of pointing out terrain features on which to concentrate your detailed scouting. I just think it is a pretty unproductive strategy on average to hunt something like a saddle just because it is a saddle. That's not to say that it won't sometimes pay off though.
On the other hand, for someone who doesn't have much time to scout, hunting the types of locations he talks about will certainly improve your odds versus picking a location at random.
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#1839102 - 03/14/10 07:52 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Pursuit Hunter]
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BSK
Jerkasourous of the non-typical kind
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On the other hand, for someone who doesn't have much time to scout, hunting the types of locations he talks about will certainly improve your odds versus picking a location at random.
Great way of stating it Pursuit Hunter. Many terrain features are great places to start scouting or hunt if you don't have the time to scout.
_________________________
"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan
"There is no reasoning someone out of a position he has not reasoned himself into." --Clive James
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#1839111 - 03/14/10 07:54 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: BSK]
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TN RDG RNR
12 Point
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 6104
Loc: Rhea County
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I havent read it but, think Ill give it a look sounds interesting.
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#1839177 - 03/14/10 08:18 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: TN RDG RNR]
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BoneHead1
4 Point
Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 199
Loc: East tn
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looks good
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#1839389 - 03/14/10 09:18 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: BoneHead1]
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gil1
12 Point
Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 6153
Loc: Nashville, TN
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PH - I've got to say that I am impressed with your review. You make some great points, and it is professionally written (that's my particular anal peeve).
I will take you to task on a small problem I have with your point of view, though. Admittedly, I haven't read the book in years, so I can't even remember most of its content.
But...
Your main gripe is that Herndon doesn't cover reading the deer sign. The reason is that there is no deer sign on a map. As I recall, the book is mostly about decoding a deer's propensity to relate to certain features that one can see on a map.
Herndon doesn't go into detail about a ton of important aspects of hunting because he is dialed in on a specific aspect of hunting, mapping trophy bucks.
I can sort of relate in that my gripe with the book was that it didn't go into much detail about specifically mapping does. I like hunting does as much as bucks. But, Herndon specifically names bucks in his title, so I can't take him to task for it.
Again, though, it is rare that I won't pick apart a website like the crotchety middle-aged ogre that I am. Yours is excellent IMO.
Lastly, you are obviously well read in the outdoor arena. I would be interested to hear your favorite deer hunting "How To" books.
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"May you live all the days of your life." - Jonathan Swift
I'm a Pope & Young Official Scorer - I'd love to score your critter - no charge.
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#1839607 - 03/14/10 10:24 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: gil1]
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Pursuit Hunter
8 Point
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gil1,
Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to pick any time.
I agree that the focus of the book was on using maps to pinpoint hunting locations and that you can't see sign on a map. My gripe had to do with the general feeling I got that the author was oversimplifying the complexity of figuring out deer behavior and advocating choosing hunting locations purely on the basis of topography and wind direction. Here's a quote from page 31 that illustrates my point.
"Besides inside corners on high ground, saddles, hilltop field funnels, and converging hubs are great places to bag mature whitetails. With a little thought and great patience, you should be able to work with the wind in each of these positions and experience excellent success."
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that all those spots can be great locations. But only if the deer are there at the time you're hunting there. The only way to really know that is by putting boots on the ground and looking around. I didn't see a single mention of that hunting reality anywhere in the book.
I guess I'm saying that I just don't possess the "great patience" to hunt a spot for days on end waiting and hoping for a deer to come by.
As far as recommendations on how-to books, I can't say that I've found any that really explain the stuff that I've found useful. But then again, with the exception of the book we're discussing, I probably haven't read a how-to book in the last ten years. Sorry.
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#1839764 - 03/15/10 07:06 AM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Pursuit Hunter]
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Bottom Hunter
16 Point
Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 15550
Loc: Hatchie Bottoms
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Anyone ever read anything about hunting flatland....river bottoms..crop lands..etc.
Hunting terrain is much easier , IMO. Not physically, but strategically......
There are similarities, of course, but when the land around you is so similar, it's difficult to find any "advantages"....
I believe that I know alot about hunitng these areas since I have been doing it for 37 years, but if you ever think that you know everything, you can't learn anything.....This old dog loves new tricks....
BH
Edited by Bottom Hunter (03/15/10 07:07 AM)
_________________________
There are some people who always seem angry and continuously look for conflict.
Walk away; the battle they are fighting is not with you, but with themselves.
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#1841621 - 03/17/10 10:41 AM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Bottom Hunter]
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Bullfrog
4 Point
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 401
Loc: Ky Lake
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BH, I agree 100%
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#1841654 - 03/17/10 11:02 AM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Bullfrog]
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BlackBelt
10 Point
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 2632
Loc: SouthWest TN
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Pursuit Hunter, I've read your work and Herndons Mapping Trophy Bucks.
I think that most hunters understand that hunter education about deer is a comprehensive study, and that very few single source outlets are going to contain the whole picture.
As a matter of fact, while I was reading Mapping Trophy Bucks, I was thinking about what I've learned from your work and how to combine both of those sources of info.
I'm pretty sure that most folks understand that just because there's a terrain funnel in front of them that doesn't mean there's a deer just around that corner or coming up that draw.
Your excellent writings (and they are top-notch) on finding sign/food sources combined with the terrain feature recognition of Mapping Trophy Bucks adds up to a very good start for a beginning hunter, or even an old hand.
I think there's a place at the table for both to exist in harmony, as they both compliment each other. A hunter that really studies both works is going to have a serious advantage over the average guy in the woods.
Just my opinion...
Edited by BlackBelt (03/17/10 11:03 AM)
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#1841715 - 03/17/10 11:35 AM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: BlackBelt]
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whistlinwingman
8 Point
Registered: 07/11/05
Posts: 1826
Loc: Morristown
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Pursuit Hunter, I've read your work and Herndons Mapping Trophy Bucks.
I think that most hunters understand that hunter education about deer is a comprehensive study, and that very few single source outlets are going to contain the whole picture.
As a matter of fact, while I was reading Mapping Trophy Bucks, I was thinking about what I've learned from your work and how to combine both of those sources of info.
I'm pretty sure that most folks understand that just because there's a terrain funnel in front of them that doesn't mean there's a deer just around that corner or coming up that draw.
Your excellent writings (and they are top-notch) on finding sign/food sources combined with the terrain feature recognition of Mapping Trophy Bucks adds up to a very good start for a beginning hunter, or even an old hand.
I think there's a place at the table for both to exist in harmony, as they both compliment each other. A hunter that really studies both works is going to have a serious advantage over the average guy in the woods.
Just my opinion...
That hits the nail on the head. While reading the book I was putting in place the knowledge of deer sign and season patterns without Mr. Herndon mentioning it.
I've been reading alot of Pursuit's material lately and "combining the two" is what I wanna do or at least try to do in the future. Good post Blackbelt.
_________________________
"I'm a great believer in luck, I find the harder I work the more I have it" -Thomas Jefferson
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#1841856 - 03/17/10 12:41 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: TN RDG RNR]
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bobthebowhunter
10 Point
Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 2997
Loc: Knoxvegas
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I disagree with the first gripe in your review. I have been much more succesful hunting terrain funnels than "deer sign". Too much deer sign is made at night. IMO
Great book. Not all the things he spoke about apply, but I got a lot out of it.
_________________________
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ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!!!
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#1842120 - 03/17/10 02:54 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: whistlinwingman]
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Pursuit Hunter
8 Point
Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2084
Loc: Way out there
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Pursuit Hunter, I've read your work and Herndons Mapping Trophy Bucks.
I think that most hunters understand that hunter education about deer is a comprehensive study, and that very few single source outlets are going to contain the whole picture.
As a matter of fact, while I was reading Mapping Trophy Bucks, I was thinking about what I've learned from your work and how to combine both of those sources of info.
I'm pretty sure that most folks understand that just because there's a terrain funnel in front of them that doesn't mean there's a deer just around that corner or coming up that draw.
Your excellent writings (and they are top-notch) on finding sign/food sources combined with the terrain feature recognition of Mapping Trophy Bucks adds up to a very good start for a beginning hunter, or even an old hand.
I think there's a place at the table for both to exist in harmony, as they both compliment each other. A hunter that really studies both works is going to have a serious advantage over the average guy in the woods.
Just my opinion...
That hits the nail on the head. While reading the book I was putting in place the knowledge of deer sign and season patterns without Mr. Herndon mentioning it. I've been reading alot of Pursuit's material lately and "combining the two" is what I wanna do or at least try to do in the future. Good post Blackbelt.
Thanks for the kind words guys. I'm honored.
I'd just like to reiterate what I said in my review and that is that I think the book is a very valuable tool that hunters of all experience levels will benefit from. I can't say that I disagree with anything he wrote except the implication that you can consistently be successful by just picking locations off a map and hunting them. Did he say that explicitly? No.
Maybe it was just my own personal biases that gave me that sense. I'll be the first to admit that I tend to see things through the filter of my own experiences. I don't think I'm too different from most of the folks here in that regard.
I certainly don't claim to have all the answers - or even many of them, for that matter - when it comes to hunting deer. All I can say is that I've made a lot of mistakes along the path of hunting knowledge and I've tried to learn from each of them.
My goal in writing about the stuff that I do is to try to provide a balanced opinion about things. Am I going to be biased toward my way of doing things? Sure, but do you really want more of the same old "I love everythign about this (insert product here). Get one and you'll be knocking down the bigguns every time you step into the woods." Blather like that is what inspired me to try to tell the truth - as I see it. In the words of Jim Rome, "have a take; don't suck."
That's the best I can do.
By the way, if you want to see the kind of sign that gets me excited about hunting a terrain feature (a hilltop funnel in this case) take a look at this video my buddy and I shot last week in Illinois. http://www.pursuithunting.com/2010/03/chasin-trail.html
Edited by Pursuit Hunter (03/17/10 03:06 PM)
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#1843110 - 03/17/10 11:23 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Pursuit Hunter]
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plinker22
14 Point
Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 9022
Loc: Mountians of East Tennessee
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I enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting.
_________________________
We do all we do to...
Gut, Gag, Tag & Drag!
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#1843263 - 03/18/10 07:14 AM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: plinker22]
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Pursuit Hunter
8 Point
Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 2084
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I enjoyed the video. Thanks for posting.
You're welcome. Thanks for commenting on the site.
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#1843902 - 03/18/10 01:50 PM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Pursuit Hunter]
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Winchester
Non-Typical
Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 25335
Loc: TN
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I have read the book a couple times myself, and while I agree its not perfect in every aspect, its definitely a good overall read, and especially for those who havent used maps a great deal in their efforts. I think his main emphasis was to let hunters know they can greatly reduce wasted time and spend more Quality time in the right places with some good maps and aerial photos before the scouting begins.
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#1847591 - 03/21/10 11:53 AM
Re: Mapping Trophy Bucks
[Re: Winchester]
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Mossy Oak
8 Point
Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 2188
Loc: Montgomery Co.
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Just picked this book up at Books A Million today after church. Judging from the weather outside, it looks like a great day to start reading it.
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